tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
A message board jockey succeeds in getting a kid to transfer in order to build clicks?
Now that’s power.
Now that’s power.
tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
You are succeeding.
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
I just noticed moss wasn’t at Iowa. He used to disappear for games all the time but it’s been 12 and I hadn’t noticed.
FirstDownHawkeyes
Well-Known Member
It matters bc if Moss had left and flourished at KU and was drafted, that’s a bad look for Iowa. It would have shown That he “needed” Self and KU to develop. Instead it shows that it’s just the way Moss is. Even Self can’t get him to play acceptable consistent defense. How could we have expected Fran to have done so.
I agree with this. If Moss would have killed it at Kansas, it would have been a horrible look to potential recruits. Every kid we tried to bring in would be hearing the Moss story from all the other coaches recruiting them. The worse he tanks, the more Fran can sell that Moss story to kids considering transferring out.
meechiganhawk
Active Member
Idk with transfer rates that they are sometimes a change of scenery is all that is needed for a kid to have maximum success. Moss has talent, but he has just never put his whole game together consistently, as a 5th year guy now, not sure he ever will.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Just my opinion but I think Fran nudges a few guys every season given what I know about his program. I don't think he is straight showing guys the door but i feel confident he nudged guys like Ellingson and Wagner. Now, I don't think he would nudge a player with the role on the team as of Moss...but I am guessing he said something about his D, the emergence of CJF and Moss didn't like what he heard.
Yeah I'm not sure. Don't get me wrong everything about your line of thinking makes perfect sense. Could be 100% true. I have no doubt they sit down with everyone after the seasons end and kind of access where everyone stands. To what extent Fran nudges absolutely would depend on the situation. Like Ellingson and Wagners situations were pretty obvious. Ellingson was comfortable taking a step back to Drake and play more. Worked perfect from where I'm sitting. Wagner decided to go closer to home and see how football helmets feel. He had little future in hoops at any level really. He was a role guy and that's about it.
Moss it felt like would have been in line to step up his already starting mins to over 30 and be a central part of the outside game to compliment Garza's inside. For Fran to kinda push him out (remember even though CJF had been in program a yr he hadn't played a game of D1 ball yet) in favor of CJ basically would have taken some balls. That's a pretty risky move. Also JBos hip was always an issue too it's not like depth wise we had a ton of ball handling experience. Granted that's not Mosss forte but he'd have been an experienced returning capable backcourt player. So I could see it going either way with Fran pushing or not pushing him out. I'd lean towards not but there's so much that goes on we just don't know either beyond the obvious htat we just don't know about.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I absolutely don't believe Fran pushed IM out... too much data and time downloaded into that to turn back, and there was potential there. I have 0 doubt that if IM was still an Iowa Hawkeye, his #'s ....from minutes to stats to whatever would all be higher then seasons past as well as higher than they are at KS. I don't think Fran thought IM wasn't good enough for a second. He did nothing but reward and give him opportunities, he was definitely going to get them again in year 5.
BUT...that said, I do think Fran nudges guys out...Not Moss per say, but others over the years. I think he has a heart to heart with them and says "look, we want you here, we want you to finish your career as an Iowa Hawkeye. We are dedicated to you and your future. To developing to make you the best basketball player we can. We will always be your family. That said, we have several guys working for minutes at your position. This is year X in the program and your minutes are X and I am not sure they will ever be a lot more with all the competition. We love you and want what is best for you and a smaller school or a school who is weaker at X position might actually be your best route. That doesn't mean we don't want you here, it means we want what is best for you and your happiness"
and then he likely gets their thoughts and expectations and then rebuttals accordingly. It's all a negotiation kind of deal, but I definitely think Fran tries to sway certain things certain ways, that's how any good leader would do it.
The way injuries panned out this year, Moss would have gotten plenty of minutes here. The problem is, when he had to make his choice, he didn't know about the injuries. He was going to get the 5th highest minutes of our guards this year behind Connor, CJ, Bohannon, and Wieskamp. Between not knowing we were going to start 4 guards and not knowing Bohannon was going to be out, he was looking at 2nd guy off the bench behind 4 guys looking to get at least high 20s per game in minutes. It would be great to have him in the role of first off the bench or 5th starter now, but that took a lot of hindsight to get us there. At the time his decision made sense for anyone who could see CJ every day and anyone who knows Connor was going to get minutes for sure.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Yes and don't forget Nunge's injury and Pat's illness pretty much forcing us to go smaller by default. Cordell has had his back flare up on him as well, which is a natural progression for someone who has had years of knee problems.
Even if Moss knew about JBo's impending situation there is no way he could have looked inside the proverbial crystal ball and seen all this coming.
Yep. If it weren't for injuries, Moss would have had a pretty big dropoff in minutes. Mostly because of CJ. He's just an all around better player and it really isn't all that close.
trj
Well-Known Member
I just shrug my shoulders at all this. Kansas desperately needed outside shooting and barring injury, he will provide that for them. It is far more important to Kansas that he hit shots, than it is his inability to lock people down. If he is healthy I have no doubt in my mind he will hit big shots for them.
It is easy now, we all know CJF can play. I am just trying to figure out where CJF's ceiling is. All the arrows point to that it will be higher than IM, I just want to see it play out.
It is easy now, we all know CJF can play. I am just trying to figure out where CJF's ceiling is. All the arrows point to that it will be higher than IM, I just want to see it play out.
mopkins
King Kong
I mean...sure. If you want to call it a nudge or being honest...it's probably somewhere in that range. But Fran wouldn't threaten to revoke a kids scholarship or force him out or anything like that.
I agree CJ has been great. I guess my only thing is if Moss had stayed would CJ have gotten the opportunity to play over Moss. Would Fran have leapfrogged him? I'm not so certain of that. Maybe we'll never know. I guess I'd be interested to know how they looked in practices and scrimmages last yr head to head. Maybe Moss saw the writing on the wall in that regard too I dunno. There's just more to it then just what we see and certainly what we hear about. I don't think CJ or Fran has any complaints thus far. Moss on the other hand that'd be interesting to know an honest answer too
Oh, Moss will get his. About once every 3 games played.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
Worthless
For Certain
He is getting about the same amount of minutes on Kansas that he did last season at Iowa
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dahlhawk
Well-Known Member
17 pts against a pretty good team, 3 rbs, 1 asst. against Stanford. It looks like a season-high, in 36 minutes. In his 5 previous games here are his lines......Villanova-0pts, 0 rebs, 0 assts. 17 min.,UMKC 5pts 19 mins., Milwaukee-8 pts, 1 rb., 19 mins., Colorado-3 rbs. 8 pts, 23 mins., Dayton-4 boards, 1 asst., 0 pts, 36 MINS., BYU-3 rbs, 1 asst, 5 pts-30 mins., creampuff city before that. What I'm seeing here is lack of production, 36 minutes against Dayton and 0 pts, was he in the men's room? These are not good stats for the minutes he is receiving. One good game, 5 so-so games. Pretty much the same with Iowa. I thought playing with all that 5-star talent would develop his overall game. His turnovers are low, gasp, only 10 up to the Stanford game but so are his steals only 6. That's an improvement. Moss is what he is at Iowa or Kansas, a streaky 3 point specialist shooting over 40% from 3 and a good free-throw shooter. Win or lose the guys on this current team are all about hustle, I swear I'm watching a Davis team. I honestly think we would not be the team we are now if he had stayed. His defense was just weak, he seemed to be apart from the rest of the team, just my opinion.
