I. Moss update

Fryowa said:
He’s playing the same number of minutes, but his win-shares and box plus/minus are both higher on the offensive and defensive side.

In other words he’s statistically (not just gut feel) more important to Kansas’ team than he was to Iowa. The reasons are academic and don’t matter, but it’s the truth. Moss is contributing more to Kansas, and judging by the team we have this year, he probably wouldn’t be doing so if he stayed at Iowa. I’m neutral except for the fact that Fran put a lot of time and effort into the guy for him to bounce. Stats mentioned earlier below...

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Lately he's getting upper 30s in minutes for the #1 team.
 
PCHawk said:
I wanted to say more loyal maybe. But then I remembered.....
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His cheap shot about saying Evelyn is a better kid is what gets me... That's cheap as hell. Can't say it's based on transferring. Last time I checked Evelyn had transferred twice. We are his 3rd school. Moss transferred just the once. Moss ended up at Kansas who has won a ton of games this yr. Sounds like he's having fun even though he's as inconsistent as he's always been stat wise. Who cares it's worked out fine for both sides. Why does one need to cut someone else down? I wondered the same thing when Rudock went to Michigan. I mean if Iowa woulda had to play Michigan for the BIG that yr (it almost came to that) and had to play him that'd have been really something. Losing to him woulda probably shut this site down. (So would have winning it but in a great way) But this doesn't matter to us. Not even in the least.
 
Fryowa said:
His MPG are lower this year
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For the year yes. Lately, one of the main players down the stretch. Been well over 30 mpg.upload_2020-3-7_11-47-57.png
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Hawkfnntn said:
Based on? Come on that's not necessary and I doubt you know either of them.
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I'm talking 100% about loyalty to the program and the other kids on the team. No reason for him transferring. He would have started a lot of games, if not all of the games, this year. I don't get it.
 
ChosenChildren said:
I'm talking 100% about loyalty to the program and the other kids on the team. No reason for him transferring. He would have started a lot of games, if not all of the games, this year. I don't get it.
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So Evelyn transferring from 2 other programs makes him more loyal in that regard? I don't get your logic. I get you have Hawkeye goggles on here but let's have some real world perspective. Moss wanted a change of scenery. Him doing so opened the door for CJF to start and play a lot. There's been no noticeable downgrade with that at all. It's been an upgrade if anything. Assuming Moss's game didn't get way better which he seems to be the same inconsistent player he had been. Although he's playing a different role with them then he would have for us. Regardless he's a good kid. He didn't leave us in a lurch or anything. Evelyn has been ok. Had a handful of games where he was a difference maker out there but most of the time he's been just an innings eater. Which is fine. I wasn't sure what to expect out of him.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
His cheap shot about saying Evelyn is a better kid is what gets me... That's cheap as hell. Can't say it's based on transferring. Last time I checked Evelyn had transferred twice. We are his 3rd school. Moss transferred just the once. Moss ended up at Kansas who has won a ton of games this yr. Sounds like he's having fun even though he's as inconsistent as he's always been stat wise. Who cares it's worked out fine for both sides. Why does one need to cut someone else down? I wondered the same thing when Rudock went to Michigan. I mean if Iowa woulda had to play Michigan for the BIG that yr (it almost came to that) and had to play him that'd have been really something. Losing to him woulda probably shut this site down. (So would have winning it but in a great way) But this doesn't matter to us. Not even in the least.
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It's not a cheap shot at all and it certainly isn't cheap as hell. Fran was very loyal to Moss and it wasn't reciprocated. Unlike Rudock (who transferred to Michigan after Ferentz declared Beathard the starter), Fran never once said that Moss wouldn't play a major role his senior year. Not once, to my knowledge.

Sorry, but I'm a fan of Iowa. Iowa has won a ton of games this year as well. His teammates at Iowa were counting on him, and he let them down. Sorry, but that is the way I see it. Coaches shouldn't quit on programs and neither should players. Moss didn't improve his future prospects by transferring to Kansas and averaging 7 or 8 points a game. He could have been spectacular at Iowa this year with him shooting 3s and Garza dominating the inside. Evelyn has been good as well, but we definitely needed another good shooter and Moss would have been that guy. Moss would have played significant minutes at Iowa this year, in my humble opinion.

Evelyn transferred from Valparaiso to the Big Ten because that is a huge jump in competition. Transferring from Iowa (before your senior year) to Kansas is not comparable in my eyes. Yes, Kansas is a better team than Iowa, at least based on the current rankings, but I don't think you can compare those transfers. Moss was secure at Iowa, as far as I know, and Fran was counting on him to play a big role this year.

I absolutely do not understand why he transferred and quit on Iowa. I don't get it. Fran praised him and supported him during his entire time at Iowa, and started him in a ton of games. He should have stayed. I respect Fran and his coaching staff for keeping their mouths shut about it. The transfer by Moss surprised the hell out of me.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
So Evelyn transferring from 2 other programs makes him more loyal in that regard? I don't get your logic. I get you have Hawkeye goggles on here but let's have some real world perspective. Moss wanted a change of scenery. Him doing so opened the door for CJF to start and play a lot. There's been no noticeable downgrade with that at all. It's been an upgrade if anything. Assuming Moss's game didn't get way better which he seems to be the same inconsistent player he had been. Although he's playing a different role with them then he would have for us. Regardless he's a good kid. He didn't leave us in a lurch or anything. Evelyn has been ok. Had a handful of games where he was a difference maker out there but most of the time he's been just an innings eater. Which is fine. I wasn't sure what to expect out of him.
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That just shows he has good judgement. That trumps loyalty in this case.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
So Evelyn transferring from 2 other programs makes him more loyal in that regard? I don't get your logic. I get you have Hawkeye goggles on here but let's have some real world perspective. Moss wanted a change of scenery. Him doing so opened the door for CJF to start and play a lot. There's been no noticeable downgrade with that at all. It's been an upgrade if anything. Assuming Moss's game didn't get way better which he seems to be the same inconsistent player he had been. Although he's playing a different role with them then he would have for us. Regardless he's a good kid. He didn't leave us in a lurch or anything. Evelyn has been ok. Had a handful of games where he was a difference maker out there but most of the time he's been just an innings eater. Which is fine. I wasn't sure what to expect out of him.
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We can debate it all day. My point is that Moss wasn't loyal to Iowa or his teammates, after Iowa invested several years in his development. And I don't think Moss transferred because of CJ Frederick. Moss would have played a ton for Iowa this year, I believe.

Look, I 100% understand that players can transfer from schools at any time (it will be even more common if proposed rule changes are adopted). But Moss could have benefited greatly by staying at Iowa as well, and having the senior season I think he could have had.
 
ChosenChildren said:
I'm pissed at Moss.

Moss could have been great at Iowa. Why transfer when you could have started most of the games your last year on a good team? I don't get it at all.
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In my opinion, Moss left the program because the minutes he had earned were being given to an unproven freshman who would have difficulty hitting water if he fell out of a boat. I don't blame Moss for leaving the program, the program cast him aside when games were on the line.
 
hawkinarkansas said:
In my opinion, Moss left the program because the minutes he had earned were being given to an unproven freshman who would have difficulty hitting water if he fell out of a boat. I don't blame Moss for leaving the program, the program cast him aside when games were on the line.
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I certainly understand your viewpoint, but Moss averaged 24 minutes per game during his last 2 years at Iowa. He is averaging 24 minutes per game this year at Kansas. Here are the simple stats:

MPG FG% 3PT% PPG

lst year - Iowa 17 41 36 6.5
2nd year - Iowa 24 42 38 11.1
3rd year - Iowa 24 40 42 9.2
this year - KU 24 39 35 7.9

The question is whether Moss would have played a bigger role at Iowa this year. I think he would have. He obviously believed that he would be happier at Kansas.
 
ChosenChildren said:
I certainly understand your viewpoint, but Moss averaged 24 minutes per game during his last 2 years at Iowa. He is averaging 24 minutes per game this year at Kansas. Here are the simple stats:

MPG FG% 3PT% PPG

lst year - Iowa 17 41 36 6.5
2nd year - Iowa 24 42 38 11.1
3rd year - Iowa 24 40 42 9.2
this year - KU 24 39 35 7.9

The question is whether Moss would have played a bigger role at Iowa this year. I think he would have. He obviously believed that he would be happier at Kansas.
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Don't forget, Moss was going to transfer to Arkansas first, and then Eric Musselman signed some more transfers and a spot opened up at Kansas (Quentin Grimes transferred). So, the move to Kansas was not what he had in mind when first deciding to leave Iowa.
 
ChosenChildren said:
It's not a cheap shot at all and it certainly isn't cheap as hell. Fran was very loyal to Moss and it wasn't reciprocated. Unlike Rudock (who transferred to Michigan after Ferentz declared Beathard the starter), Fran never once said that Moss wouldn't play a major role his senior year. Not once, to my knowledge.

Sorry, but I'm a fan of Iowa. Iowa has won a ton of games this year as well. His teammates at Iowa were counting on him, and he let them down. Sorry, but that is the way I see it. Coaches shouldn't quit on programs and neither should players. Moss didn't improve his future prospects by transferring to Kansas and averaging 7 or 8 points a game. He could have been spectacular at Iowa this year with him shooting 3s and Garza dominating the inside. Evelyn has been good as well, but we definitely needed another good shooter and Moss would have been that guy. Moss would have played significant minutes at Iowa this year, in my humble opinion.

Evelyn transferred from Valparaiso to the Big Ten because that is a huge jump in competition. Transferring from Iowa (before your senior year) to Kansas is not comparable in my eyes. Yes, Kansas is a better team than Iowa, at least based on the current rankings, but I don't think you can compare those transfers. Moss was secure at Iowa, as far as I know, and Fran was counting on him to play a big role this year.

I absolutely do not understand why he transferred and quit on Iowa. I don't get it. Fran praised him and supported him during his entire time at Iowa, and started him in a ton of games. He should have stayed. I respect Fran and his coaching staff for keeping their mouths shut about it. The transfer by Moss surprised the hell out of me.
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It absolutely is a cheap shot calling the kids character into question. It's his life. His career. You and I don't have to walk in his shoes only he's wearing them. He made a decision for himself that he wanted to do for whatever his reasons are. It's not like he went to ISU or Nebraska. He's at Kansas. I mean come on man. Did you give Cook as hard a time for leaving early to go pro? Sometimes 3 yrs is as long as they want to be someplace and are ready for a change regardless of their eligibility status. I'm not sure what his exact reason(s) for leaving are. I'm sure it's a combination of things but that doesn't make him a bad dude. Fran hasn't said a cross word about him. None of his teammates have. I think on twitter they've supported him throughout the year too. JBo especially who played with him the most. We can root for our team without running down kids that did nothing wrong or against the rules.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
It absolutely is a cheap shot calling the kids character into question. It's his life. His career. You and I don't have to walk in his shoes only he's wearing them. He made a decision for himself that he wanted to do for whatever his reasons are. It's not like he went to ISU or Nebraska. He's at Kansas. I mean come on man. Did you give Cook as hard a time for leaving early to go pro? Sometimes 3 yrs is as long as they want to be someplace and are ready for a change regardless of their eligibility status. I'm not sure what his exact reason(s) for leaving are. I'm sure it's a combination of things but that doesn't make him a bad dude. Fran hasn't said a cross word about him. None of his teammates have. I think on twitter they've supported him throughout the year too. JBo especially who played with him the most. We can root for our team without running down kids that did nothing wrong or against the rules.
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You are right. I'm wasn't objective....I'm looking at it from a selfish Iowa fan's perspective.

I should not have been critical of Moss....

Transfers are going to be a way of life in college basketball. I do hope the kid is happy and doing well. It just hurt and stung to lose him because I really feel he would have had a great senior year at Iowa
 
hawkinarkansas said:
In my opinion, Moss left the program because the minutes he had earned were being given to an unproven freshman who would have difficulty hitting water if he fell out of a boat. I don't blame Moss for leaving the program, the program cast him aside when games were on the line.
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This. I clearly remember the Michigan game last year and seeing him on the bench. I could tell looking at his face that he checked out after that and was done.

He played great in the 1st half of that game and scored 16 pts leading everybody. He was the ONLY one getting to the rim. Then in the 2nd half he was nowhere to be found and Connor was in there getting all the minutes. Fran even acknowledged after the game that he maybe should have played Moss more (I'll take that as we kind of forgot about him) as Moss convalesced on the bench.

I don't blame the guy. I'm sure his thought process was "Wow, if they don't play me in this situation or forget about me, I don't see it getting any better". He decided to go elsewhere, maybe where he would feel more appreciated. I don't see anything wrong with that in this situation.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
His cheap shot about saying Evelyn is a better kid is what gets me... That's cheap as hell. Can't say it's based on transferring. Last time I checked Evelyn had transferred twice. We are his 3rd school. Moss transferred just the once. Moss ended up at Kansas who has won a ton of games this yr. Sounds like he's having fun even though he's as inconsistent as he's always been stat wise. Who cares it's worked out fine for both sides. Why does one need to cut someone else down? I wondered the same thing when Rudock went to Michigan. I mean if Iowa woulda had to play Michigan for the BIG that yr (it almost came to that) and had to play him that'd have been really something. Losing to him woulda probably shut this site down. (So would have winning it but in a great way) But this doesn't matter to us. Not even in the least.
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Perhaps Iowa and Kansas will face each other sometime in this tournament.
 
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