I just want to get this post out of the way now

No reason we can't be 8+ wins. I can see wins against the first 5 opponents (Unless Steele Jantz rips us again), L at MSU, Beat PSU, NW, IU, and Purdue, Lose against Michigan and Nebraska. Maybe flip flop a couple in there but I cant see why this seems unreasonable.
 
hogeye said:
You're talking about a different context than I am referring to in that paragraph. I was referring to the more general discussion that gets brought up about state employees, their salaries, tax money and the more fiscal aspects around the state budget. The more political aspect, if you will.

To your specific point, the numbers are there to make the case. When you consider what his pay is in relation to other top coaches and then take a look at what he has to work with at Iowa in terms of building a program it's not apples and oranges. Let's just take a look at the top paid coaches, in no particular order:

Saban
Stoops
Brown
Miles
Ferentz

Now, sit long and hard and think about what those programs have in terms of donor support...it's not even close. In terms of in state recruiting...it's not even close. In terms of perceived power and history...it's not even close.

Top college football teams, in terms of value:

Texas
ND
Penn St.
LSU
Michigan
Alabama
Georgia
Arkansas
Auburn
Oklahoma
Florida
Tennessee
Ohio St.
Nebraska
Wiscy
South Carolina
Texas A&M
USC
Michigan State
Iowa

So, again...look long and hard about that list, which IS in order, and again see the difference in demographics. Big schools, big bank accounts, big boosters, hot recruiting pockets.

We're getting what we are paying for...it's easy to slice and dice things in simple terms of salary, but you have to look at the big picture.

People who pigeonhole their perspective of KF's salary in relation to where we finish and stop there are being disingenuous to reality.
Click to expand...


I guess I was always under the idea that he was paid the top 5 money because he performed like a top ten program. He did perform at a top 10 level for three years in a row when paid a lot less money than he makes now. It just seems everyone is willing to give KF and this program a pass on the underperformance because of the achievements of 7 years ago. Let's not forget that Kirk as been compensated, if not over compensated for the total of what he has done at the U of I.


The statements about 4 & 4 in the conference is really what worries me. You would never hear those comments from Meyer, Saban, Miles and the other coaches that his pay is equal to. He chooses to coach here and accepts a kings ransom to have this program at the second level behind those top programs with built in advantages. I just cannot accept that he gets top 5 money to coach a program in the top 40 range. Maybe the coaching changes will prove me wrong but I doubt it. I think the players aren't the fat cats anymore. There are more than enough examples to prove this.
 
Some don't want to entertain the thought that you probably have to overpay at Iowa once you find a good fit because of some of the inherent demographic challenges.

Or that coaches like Saban, Meyer, Stoops, etc would perform anywhere near at Iowa to what they have done at other stops. I don't think they would
 
even if kf floats his own name and is bluffing on the nfl stuff barta could call his bluff and not give him a raise if we can do better for coaches.

also i love the high and mighty of they are paid too much. if someone puts a contract for 4 mil in front of you are you going to say no, i am not worth that much lets say 2 mil instead? if you say you would you are the biggest liar on this board.

it is like the people that get mad at arod for his contract. he isnt the one who offered it he is just smart enough to sign it before they can figure out they offered too much.
 
"Or that coaches like Saban, Meyer, Stoops, etc would perform anywhere near at Iowa to what they have done at other stops. I don't think they would"

I'm not sure either. This made me think. I'm not sure is all I can come up with.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and disagree with Jon's prediction. I realize his prediction track record strikes fear in the minds of others, but I don't think they give up 27 points a game. The schedule just isn't that difficult.

Although young, we have better players than we had in 2000. I think the quality of the young guys that could make an impact far exceeds the defense on the field in 2000.

I really think they can win 8-9 games on that schedule...the worm has to turn on our close game blunders at some point. I think JVB's experience gets us a few extra wins and the defense surprises to the upside.
Click to expand...

Don't think 2000, think 2007 and look at that schedule. Couldn't get any easier on paper and see how things turned out.
 
Golfer said:
"Or that coaches like Saban, Meyer, Stoops, etc would perform anywhere near at Iowa to what they have done at other stops. I don't think they would"

I'm not sure either. This made me think. I'm not sure is all I can come up with.
Click to expand...

I will go so far to say I am sure. The real question isn't could they perform at Iowa like where they are now. The real question is could they perform better than KF at Iowa.

Let's not kid ourselves here, demographics matter, history matters, revenue matters...the teams at the top aren't there for unknown reasons.
 
hogeye said:
You're talking about a different context than I am referring to in that paragraph. I was referring to the more general discussion that gets brought up about state employees, their salaries, tax money and the more fiscal aspects around the state budget. The more political aspect, if you will.

To your specific point, the numbers are there to make the case. When you consider what his pay is in relation to other top coaches and then take a look at what he has to work with at Iowa in terms of building a program it's not apples and oranges. Let's just take a look at the top paid coaches, in no particular order:

Saban
Stoops
Brown
Miles
Ferentz

Now, sit long and hard and think about what those programs have in terms of donor support...it's not even close. In terms of in state recruiting...it's not even close. In terms of perceived power and history...it's not even close.

Top college football teams, in terms of value:

Texas
ND
Penn St.
LSU
Michigan
Alabama
Georgia
Arkansas
Auburn
Oklahoma
Florida
Tennessee
Ohio St.
Nebraska
Wiscy
South Carolina
Texas A&M
USC
Michigan State
Iowa

So, again...look long and hard about that list, which IS in order, and again see the difference in demographics. Big schools, big bank accounts, big boosters, hot recruiting pockets.

We're getting what we are paying for...it's easy to slice and dice things in simple terms of salary, but you have to look at the big picture.

People who pigeonhole their perspective of KF's salary in relation to where we finish and stop there are being disingenuous to reality.
Click to expand...
.

I just read from a Chicago sportswriter than Iowa is #4 in the Big 10, with respect to revenue and resources, and on the level of Alabama. I'm going to try to link to that, because I've heard our athletic department budget is actually almost last in the B1G.
 
Golfer said:
.

I just read from a Chicago sportswriter than Iowa is #4 in the Big 10, with respect to revenue and resources, and on the level of Alabama. I'm going to try to link to that, because I've heard our athletic department budget is actually almost last in the B1G.
Click to expand...

Iowa isn't even close to being last in the Big Ten. It has a top twenty athletic budget. The last numbers I saw that could be verified were for 2009, Iowa was fourth in the conference in football revenue.

Surprisingly, Iowa generates more football income than Wisconsin because of higher ticket prices.

As far as financial revenue & resources, Iowa is probably on a par with Alabama. However, as far as a recruiting base, there is no comparision.

I have to run through the numbers, but as far as coach's salary, Rhoads probably gets paid just as much or more than Ferentz when comparing salary to revenue.
 
Golfer said:
.

I just read from a Chicago sportswriter than Iowa is #4 in the Big 10, with respect to revenue and resources, and on the level of Alabama. I'm going to try to link to that, because I've heard our athletic department budget is actually almost last in the B1G.
Click to expand...

My list wasn't based on athletic department budgets or revenue it was a Forbes magazine article based on most valuable teams.

University of Iowa Hawkeyes - Chris Smith - Forbes
 
As being a Hawk fan, I always will have high expectations for the Iowa Football program...no matter the circumstances that lie ahead. KF is a good head coach, but we all want him to be great for the kind of money he is making. I say 8+ wins every season is a must for Iowa Football or Barta should find a new coach for that money.
 
ZonaHawk said:
As being a Hawk fan, I always will have high expectations for the Iowa Football program...no matter the circumstances that lie ahead. KF is a good head coach, but we all want him to be great for the kind of money he is making. I say 8+ wins every season is a must for Iowa Football or Barta should find a new coach for that money.
Click to expand...

Kirk is averaging just over 7 wins per season right now. That's with inheriting basically nothing and taking two building years with 4 wins total between the two. So, throw those two out and we're at 8.7 wins per year.
 
The problem though with KF is constantly rebuilding teams year-after-year. Look at the curse at RB for example. It's hard for any B1G team to keep winning without good talent at key positions. Injuries will always happen in college football, but bad luck and misfortune are never needed during spring training.
 
ZonaHawk said:
The problem though with KF is constantly rebuilding teams year-after-year. Look at the curse at RB for example. It's hard for any B1G team to keep winning without good talent at key positions. Injuries will always happen in college football, but bad luck and misfortune are never needed during spring training.
Click to expand...

That's the nature of college football. Most teams rebuild year after year and all that does is add merit to the argument I made for him on the previous page. Look at where we are as a college in relation to all the big name schools. Kirk has to rebuild year in and year out without in state kids knocking down his down like EVERY single school on that list has...EVERY one of them. Not to mention the lack of booster donations and go right on down the line of how Iowa demographically doesn't stack up, yet we manage to do what we do.

I am not saying we should expect more or that there aren't things to be disappointed in. However, you're on some serious crack if you think very many coaches could have came in and done with this program what Kirk has done with it.

Be careful what you ask for, you may just get it...Nebraska, Michigan and numerous schools recently have suffered running off a coach (technically Carr retired, but fan pressure what on to fire him). ND has never been the same since. If you think weathering that at Iowa is easier than those schools you're nuts.
 
CAARHawk said:
Don't think 2000, think 2007 and look at that schedule. Couldn't get any easier on paper and see how things turned out.
Click to expand...

yes, but the problem in 2007 wasn't the defense was it? It was Jake the Snake and the incredibly diverse offense of KOK. I'm saying we have better young players today than we had talent in 2000. I think this year could be different and our defense surprises to the upside. It's not going to be a top 20 defense, but it will keep us in games...especially against that schedule early on. They have some time to grow up in those first 5 games...and they won't be in a hostile environment until they get to MSU. Maybe we get some confidence by the time that game rolls around...it could happen. The other thing to think about is that we will be faster in the back seven than we have maybe ever been.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
yes, but the problem in 2007 wasn't the defense was it? It was Jake the Snake and the incredibly diverse offense of KOK. I'm saying we have better young players today than we had talent in 2000.
Click to expand...

My response to you was not that the 2007 defense was the problem. But, that your argument that the 2012 schedule is so easy that Iowa can overcome a weak defense is not warranted by recent history.

2007 is a good example of how a weak side of the ball can make it so you can't take advantage of even a weak schedule. Not sure why you bring up 2000 again. As I said before, 2000 is NOT the year to bring up, because the ratio of strong to not-so-strong players and the schedule are more like 2007.
 
i would like to expand on hogeye using 8.7 wins per yr when kf's 1st 2 seasons are omitted. since many arent math people i will put it as simply as possible.

this means that on a 3 yr rotation kf wins in yr 1 - 8 games, yr 2 - 9 games, and yr 3 - 9 games...then it would start over.

i know he doesnt actually do this but it does set us up to understand that the pace at which he wins actually is at 8 or more each yr. now he has 7 wins seasons but he also has 10 win seasons and we just have to rebuild every once in a while like 95% of college fb teams. yet our rebuilding yrs are at 7 wins and other schools rebuilding yrs are like 3 wins.

could the grass be greener of course but it could be brown too (just look at our bball program before fran).

i grew up with...if it aint broke dont fix it...mantra. doesnt mean you dont tweak it a little everyonce in a while to keep it fresh but our fb definitely is far from broke.
 
hogeye said:
My list wasn't based on athletic department budgets or revenue it was a Forbes magazine article based on most valuable teams.

University of Iowa Hawkeyes - Chris Smith - Forbes
Click to expand...
.

I found the comments in the Chicago story I mentioned. It basically said we are #4 in the B1G, around $45MM in revenue, and that as compared to the SEC, we would match up with Alabama (#4 in revenue SEC). They are at $75MM.

I'm still trying to find the actual link to post. I saw the article at lunch. Some sportswriter in Chicago.

I get what you're saying. I just think my info above, badly summarized, is interesting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top