I just want to get this post out of the way now
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
Wise guy? Your mommy is very proud of you that you are the tough guy on a website. I shall now feel so bad because I referred to the Orange Bowl of 2010 as the 2010 season. I bet you tell all your friends you are a legend on this website. I like to think of you and all tough guys on here as tools.
Hawkeye11en1
Well-Known Member
I like to think I could sleep with Carrie Underwood. It's all in your head.
Just need a couple bottles of Boones Farm Tickled Pink and a copy of the Almann Bros Eat a Peach and your dream can be a reality.
I agree with most everything you have stated but the problem is if you take every season since 2004, Iowa has had only one season that you can say they had an above average season. The norm is becoming 7 win regular seasons. I guess for the investment that I and most of the people I know make in the football program, this isn't acceptable.
Golfer
Well-Known Member
I understand where you are at Cory. Trust me I do. And I also understand that now you might be called a donor with a sense of entitlement. And that you aren't a real fan. And that you never sat through 25 years of losing seasons. etc., ad infinitum.
You might be called out on this, just because you disagree. That part I don't understand.
That, and some might start to call you names now. I don't understand that either.
I'm a donor. I feel like you feel. If i wasn't a donor, I'd still feel the same way. Because I never used to be a donor, and I still felt that we should expect more.
I do not think it is negative to expect more. Nor do I think everyone needs to agree with me.
I'm fairly reasonable about it, but it is much more pronounced of a sense of frustration, especially after two season ago.
You might be called out on this, just because you disagree. That part I don't understand.
That, and some might start to call you names now. I don't understand that either.
I'm a donor. I feel like you feel. If i wasn't a donor, I'd still feel the same way. Because I never used to be a donor, and I still felt that we should expect more.
I do not think it is negative to expect more. Nor do I think everyone needs to agree with me.
I'm fairly reasonable about it, but it is much more pronounced of a sense of frustration, especially after two season ago.
Just out of curiosity, what type of investments are we talking here? If we are talking about purchasing tickets and merchandise, that is not an investment, that is a consumer decision. Purchasing those things does not entitle you to anything, anymore than purchasing a Coke entitles you a say of how Coca Cola Inc. runs their business. If you are unsatisfied with the product, you can stop consuming at any time.
If you are talking about substantial monetary contributions to the football team (i.e. you are a major booster), then that is an entirely different animal. You can expect certain levels of success in order for you to continue those investments.
If you are talking about emotional investments, this is an area that I appreciate exists, but I cannot really relate to. I use sports for entertainment. I enjoy watching the Hawkeyes, and so I follow them throughout the year. But I have nothing invested in the team. I know none of the coaches personally, I know very few players personally, and I myself have never participated for the team. Thus, if I didn't enjoy watching them, I wouldn't. This isn't to say that I never get frustrated by decisions or losses; but if I ever got to the point where I felt the frustration was greater than the enjoyment, I would find a different past-time. I know others think differently, but I have always had a hard time understanding that mindset.
I am just curious as to the nature of these investments you reference.
I know I'm not a major donor but I am a donor. The company I work for is held hostage by the U of I and asked to give more and more every year because all of their business is done in the state of Iowa. They are probably in the top 5% of donors and they used to not have a problem with what is asked of them. But when the athletic department asks them to increase the donation by 4x or they lose everything they have gained with Iowa ties, then I have to ask what are all donors getting for the huge investment in the football program.
Thank you for not being part of the tough guy mob on here, golfer.
Golfer
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, doing business with a State Board of Regents institution. Don't ever think they don't have some say in how the athletic department is run. And the football program.
Someone at your firm knows different it sounds like. So do I.
Watch the advertisements at Kinnick sometime. I can give you a play by play of how almost all of them (excluding the national ones like the soft drinks, etc) were approached about advertising, and why they feel it is 100% necessary.
Lotsa construction down there right now. With the UofI H&C, and the shake down of FEMA flood recovery funds going on. Lotsa advertising this fall. I can predict right now who the new advertisers are going to be.
Almost as fun as the football. Almost.
Someone at your firm knows different it sounds like. So do I.
Watch the advertisements at Kinnick sometime. I can give you a play by play of how almost all of them (excluding the national ones like the soft drinks, etc) were approached about advertising, and why they feel it is 100% necessary.
Lotsa construction down there right now. With the UofI H&C, and the shake down of FEMA flood recovery funds going on. Lotsa advertising this fall. I can predict right now who the new advertisers are going to be.
Almost as fun as the football. Almost.
i dont care donor or not. i am not. i dont like 7 win seasons. but lets think about this.
we are complaining about 7 wins out of 12. this seems to be our logical basement. as we have had some 6 win seasons but more often we bottom out at 7 under kf. this is our basement. it could be our ceiling. all teams go through down seasons even teams like osu. but unless you have true pedigree or are in a weak conference you wont sustain great (10, 11, 12 wins) seasons for more than 2 or 3 in a row and you will have to rebuild for at least 2. that is true whether you are iowa or south carolina or others. this isnt lil old iowa this is just the truth.
could we do somethings differently to get our basement to 8? possibly but those same things could also cause our basement to fall to 5 because in the 2nd tier of teams you dont have the room for error that a 1st tier like osu or bama has. it is true whether we like it or not.
kf plays the numbers and knows how to maximize our wins but we still have to go and win. that is the part that brings us back for more the fact that it isnt a guaranteed win. the not knowing is the essence of sport and what makes it great. does it make it harder to swallow when the fb coach is making 4 mill? yes but we are the reason he makes that much money because we put so much emphasis on it. tell me if your job gave youa pay raise for twice what you get now you wouldnt sign on the dotted line right now before they come to their senses. i know i would. but the pay raise means keep up what you are doing not improve. if you want improvement you dangle the raise in front of them and say improve and then you get this.
we are complaining about 7 wins out of 12. this seems to be our logical basement. as we have had some 6 win seasons but more often we bottom out at 7 under kf. this is our basement. it could be our ceiling. all teams go through down seasons even teams like osu. but unless you have true pedigree or are in a weak conference you wont sustain great (10, 11, 12 wins) seasons for more than 2 or 3 in a row and you will have to rebuild for at least 2. that is true whether you are iowa or south carolina or others. this isnt lil old iowa this is just the truth.
could we do somethings differently to get our basement to 8? possibly but those same things could also cause our basement to fall to 5 because in the 2nd tier of teams you dont have the room for error that a 1st tier like osu or bama has. it is true whether we like it or not.
kf plays the numbers and knows how to maximize our wins but we still have to go and win. that is the part that brings us back for more the fact that it isnt a guaranteed win. the not knowing is the essence of sport and what makes it great. does it make it harder to swallow when the fb coach is making 4 mill? yes but we are the reason he makes that much money because we put so much emphasis on it. tell me if your job gave youa pay raise for twice what you get now you wouldnt sign on the dotted line right now before they come to their senses. i know i would. but the pay raise means keep up what you are doing not improve. if you want improvement you dangle the raise in front of them and say improve and then you get this.
Golfer
Well-Known Member
All BS aside, we're all fans. And fans, especially fans of athletics due to the competitive nature, are emotional. Just like athletes.
I'm still a KF supporter. I don't think he is overpaid, but I don't agree with the way we structured the pay.
I mentioned this previously. Last year was very difficult, and especially difficult coming off off 2010.
I find it difficult not to be frustrated also because there are only a handful of games that it seems like we never had a chance to win. That probably speaks loudly about the level of our coaches, but it make losses tougher I think.
I'm still a KF supporter. I don't think he is overpaid, but I don't agree with the way we structured the pay.
I mentioned this previously. Last year was very difficult, and especially difficult coming off off 2010.
I find it difficult not to be frustrated also because there are only a handful of games that it seems like we never had a chance to win. That probably speaks loudly about the level of our coaches, but it make losses tougher I think.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
I love the KF salary discussion. When you look at State of Iowa employees salaries at any given fiscal year show me another paid employee that's responsible for being part of something that is actually generating true revenue in Iowa.
I am all for cutting tax dollars that are being funneled into the Iowa school systems at every level. There isn't a larger waste of dollars being spent in Iowa than on public education, but to try and cherry pick the one aspect of it that is actually self-sufficient and healthy is ridiculous.
What basis do you use to determine what is and is not acceptable? Frankly, when all things are considered, I think you're being unreasonable about your expectations.
I am all for cutting tax dollars that are being funneled into the Iowa school systems at every level. There isn't a larger waste of dollars being spent in Iowa than on public education, but to try and cherry pick the one aspect of it that is actually self-sufficient and healthy is ridiculous.
What basis do you use to determine what is and is not acceptable? Frankly, when all things are considered, I think you're being unreasonable about your expectations.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
Quite frankly, I assumed it was not, it would seem ridiculous to funnel money from tax dollars into a program that is actually severely cash positive. In fact, I would guess the rest of the sports programs are beneficiaries of that revenue as well...how socialistic.
At any rate, even if his salary WAS coming from the tax revenue, my point is the same. I've only every looked at the U of I annual report, for the most part.
I guarantee you, if I had the time, I could come up with double or triple his salary in wasted tax payer dollars in the public school systems in Iowa in a hurry.
At any rate, even if his salary WAS coming from the tax revenue, my point is the same. I've only every looked at the U of I annual report, for the most part.
I guarantee you, if I had the time, I could come up with double or triple his salary in wasted tax payer dollars in the public school systems in Iowa in a hurry.
Golfer
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
Just one example of their funny accounting. You should see how the athletic department and football program are accounted for, in such a way that they "lose" money.
One of the reasons I've alluded to before about having to keep NP past his time, not bump up his salary, and give him an office job, when he was clearly not able to give 100% due to health reasons.
Just one example of their funny accounting. You should see how the athletic department and football program are accounted for, in such a way that they "lose" money.
One of the reasons I've alluded to before about having to keep NP past his time, not bump up his salary, and give him an office job, when he was clearly not able to give 100% due to health reasons.
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
hogeye
Well-Known Member
That's not terribly inaccurate.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
I'm going to go out on a limb here and disagree with Jon's prediction. I realize his prediction track record strikes fear in the minds of others, but I don't think they give up 27 points a game. The schedule just isn't that difficult.
Although young, we have better players than we had in 2000. I think the quality of the young guys that could make an impact far exceeds the defense on the field in 2000.
I really think they can win 8-9 games on that schedule...the worm has to turn on our close game blunders at some point. I think JVB's experience gets us a few extra wins and the defense surprises to the upside.
I guess I expect if he gets paid top 5 to 7 money then he should have at bare minimum, top 25 teams. I can understand one year out of every four to be sub par top 25 but to do it 5 out of 7. I used to be the biggest KF supporter around but it appears that the program has lost the edge it had early in his tenure.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
You're talking about a different context than I am referring to in that paragraph. I was referring to the more general discussion that gets brought up about state employees, their salaries, tax money and the more fiscal aspects around the state budget. The more political aspect, if you will.
To your specific point, the numbers are there to make the case. When you consider what his pay is in relation to other top coaches and then take a look at what he has to work with at Iowa in terms of building a program it's not apples and oranges. Let's just take a look at the top paid coaches, in no particular order:
Saban
Stoops
Brown
Miles
Ferentz
Now, sit long and hard and think about what those programs have in terms of donor support...it's not even close. In terms of in state recruiting...it's not even close. In terms of perceived power and history...it's not even close.
Top college football teams, in terms of value:
Texas
ND
Penn St.
LSU
Michigan
Alabama
Georgia
Arkansas
Auburn
Oklahoma
Florida
Tennessee
Ohio St.
Nebraska
Wiscy
South Carolina
Texas A&M
USC
Michigan State
Iowa
So, again...look long and hard about that list, which IS in order, and again see the difference in demographics. Big schools, big bank accounts, big boosters, hot recruiting pockets.
We're getting what we are paying for...it's easy to slice and dice things in simple terms of salary, but you have to look at the big picture.
People who pigeonhole their perspective of KF's salary in relation to where we finish and stop there are being disingenuous to reality.
