I don't get how you can call for Frans head.

[deanvogs]

If we only make 1 more tournament in the next 4 years I'll be leading the charge. We are really close to being a damn good team. If it wasn't for all the near misses with game changing recruits, I would be more indifferent with Fran. It's still possible he will always be an "almost" coach. If that's the case we still have a pretty competitive team. I'm just afraid we might run off a really good coach who got unlucky a few times just because of inpatients.

If Fran only makes 1 more NCAA tourney in the next 4, you will be the very last person on the fire Fran brigade.....2 NCAA tourney appearances in 9 years? Yikes that is ISU football bad.

 

[PCHawk]

If Fran only makes 1 more NCAA tourney in the next 4, you will be the very last person on the fire Fran brigade.....2 NCAA tourney appearances in 9 years? Yikes that is ISU football bad.

Ha I knew I set myself up for that one. I'll rephrase it. I'll be just as mad as everyone else if that happens. If we didn't collapse last year, everyone would be happy with where we were. What do you think about me post about Pat's cancer? I know I'm not the first to bring it up but I'm amazed at how different I feel after having kids.

 

[deanvogs]

Ha I knew I set myself up for that one. I'll rephrase it. I'll be just as mad as everyone else if that happens. If we didn't collapse last year, everyone would be happy with where we were. What do you think about me post about Pat's cancer? I know I'm not the first to bring it up but I'm amazed at how different I feel after having kids.

I'm sure that affect his job, I don't think he would be human if it didn't. I also don't judge his 5 years on just last years collapse, and I give him credit for getting to the tourney last year. That said, it is now year 5, and if he can only make it once (in the year he had the personal hardships with his sons cancer), then what does that say about the other 4 years?

I think we have hammered this to death. As I keep saying, I hope it doesn't come to this, as we have a good chunk of the year left, and as good a shot as nearly any B1G team (outside Wisconsin and Maryland) of still making the NCAA's.

 

[lightning1]

#1. Not every year, but it has to be specifically in year 5-6?
#2. The way the conference is this year, it's not unreasonable to have expected a team good enough to get a top 3 finish. If the conference was as good as last year, a top 3 expectation would have been high in my opinion.
#3. I listed 3 coaches. Throw in Michigan.
#4.7th, 6th, 6th is damn good compared to the cellar, cellar, cellar we were in. The last 6th wasn't great but collapses happen. Hopefully and more than likely it's jot common with Fran.
#5 look at White's recruiting class ranking and you will see 2 players that look like they won't be good contributors and 1 that looks like he will. How did that work out? I would feel better with 4 stars but I'm not going to assume they suck before they get here.

If you can't even crack the top half of the BIG conference by the end of your 4th year, I would not be opposed to firing you. I happen to like Fran, so I'm willing to keep my katana in it's scabbard. It will be out after this season, if we don't make the NCAA tournament. That's for sure.
So you agree with me, Fran should be expected to finish in the top 3 this year?
I want a top BIG conference head coach. If we don't currently have one, I want as many HCs fired until we do.
7th, 6th, 6th is damn good? This is NOT football. 1 or 2 players can turn a team around in 1 year. 1 year! You've been brainwashed to accept mediocrity, if you really believe that a 6th place finish in year 4 is "damn good". That's beyond bad and there is no way you will ever convince me otherwise.
White is a difference maker. But once again, we are back to 7th, 6th, 6th and ? place for his Iowa career. So as much as I like Aaron White, I will say that it hasn't worked out very well.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

You are seriously comparing the job Fran is doing with Izzo? Izzo has 4 NCAA appearances in the last 4 years, Fran has 1. Each season doesn't live in a vacuum, you have to look at see what a coach has done with the teams he's had.

I have said consistently that if Fran makes the NCAA again this year then I am good with him going forward. If he doesn't, I think he should go. The reason I think this is because I feel he has had 3 NCAA caliber teams these last 3 years. If he can only make 1 NCAA tourney with those 3 teams, that just isn't cutting it. If he can make 2 of 3, then that is getting some results, and no need to make a move.

For THIS season and to date, I agree with PC.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

If you can't even crack the top half of the BIG conference by the end of your 4th year, I would not be opposed to firing you. I happen to like Fran, so I'm willing to keep my katana in it's scabbard. It will be out after this season, if we don't make the NCAA tournament. That's for sure.
So you agree with me, Fran should be expected to finish in the top 3 this year?
I want a top BIG conference head coach. If we don't currently have one, I want as many HCs fired until we do.
7th, 6th, 6th is damn good? This is NOT football. 1 or 2 players can turn a team around in 1 year. 1 year! You've been brainwashed to accept mediocrity, if you really believe that a 6th place finish in year 4 is "damn good". That's beyond bad and there is no way you will ever convince me otherwise.
White is a difference maker. But once again, we are back to 7th, 6th, 6th and ? place for his Iowa career. So as much as I like Aaron White, I will say that it hasn't worked out very well.

Good thing Fran had accomplished this twice by the end of his fourth season.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Here's how.

If the Hawks finish 7-4 (which is probably where vegas would put the Over/Under) they'll close conference play at 20-11. Anything less than 2+ wins in the Big Ten tourney they'd likely miss the NCAAs. That would be 1/2 an NCAA bid in 5 years as HC.

Any questions?

If they finish 20-11 and the are a virtual lock for the NCAA tournament...without a win in the BTT. Going 11-7 in the Big 10 and winning at North Carolina and sweeping Ohio State is already a solid resume...when comparing to the teams Iowa will be battling for bids.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Go 4-2 at home, 3-2 on the road, not going to say it will happen, but it is doable. A split with Maryland/Wiscy at home for the next 2 would be huge.

Maryland is starting to look more and more like a win for Iowa. They (MD) are learning that the Big 10 is much more physical than the ACC and winning on the road is difficult against any team in this conference...better show up to play. I think it's a break that we didn't get them early in the conference season.

Side Note - And for those saying Gesell and Woodbury were recruiting misses aren't thinking straight. We were all excited about getting those guys. And both have Big 10 caliber skills IMO...just aren't consistent in their level of play. I was very happy to have both of them against North Carolina.

 

[ibahawkeye]

Next year will tell us what we need to know about Fran's future.

I think what most agree is that we still lack the true talent that it takes for us to take the next step and to be a lock in the NCAA tourney team and to battle for a conference championship.

So is this recruiting class have the type of talent that guys can come in and contribute right away? The good news is it seems we have 1 piece in place for the future and that's Uhl as we have seen him contribute some this year. But I'd like to see even better production from some of hte new guys. If we see Ellingson come in and play the minutes of the 2 instead of one of the new comers.

If new comers are playing right away, that's when we know we have an infusion of upgrade in talent.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I'm not in favor of Fran losing his job this year but I don't see the program trending up.

The program is clearing trending up...just showing the year by year trend.

Year 1 - No post season
Year 2 - NIT
Year 3 - NIT Championship
Year 4 - NCAA
Year 5 - Incomplete

An NCAA berth and 1 win is still trending upward for the 5th year in a row.

 

[DesMoinesHawki]

The name of the game is recruiting and in Year #5 I personally have had higher expectations. I sort of feel like we peaked. Yes, next year we have some interesting recruits coming in but those recruits will be true freshmen ... I am not calling for Fran's head by any means, but I do sort of question if or how much further he can take this program. These are his kids. His recruits. His system. If kids are missing shots ... or not defending, etc., well ... it comes back to ... these are Fran's kids. This is the program and players and coaches he chose to surround himself with. So I do understand fans being upset. Personally, I think the program should be a little more established in Year #5 and that hopefull some of this "collapsing" during games would somehow be not so common. We have veteran players on the floor guys. These guys have all been in Fran's system for a few years ... Woody, Gessell, White, Uthoff, Gabe ... these guys have been there ... So, to simply make the comment that you "can't blame Fran for missing shots" is really sort of short sited ... This is his crew. This is his ship ... Whatever they are or aren't doing as a program comes back to one person and that one person is Fran ...

 

[clicheusername3]

The program is clearing trending up...just showing the year by year trend.

Year 1 - No post season
Year 2 - NIT
Year 3 - NIT Championship Runner Up
Year 4 - NCAA Play in Game
Year 5 - Not going very well
An NCAA berth and 1 win is still trending upward for the 5th year in a row.

 

[PCHawk]

I'm sure that affect his job, I don't think he would be human if it didn't. I also don't judge his 5 years on just last years collapse, and I give him credit for getting to the tourney last year. That said, it is now year 5, and if he can only make it once (in the year he had the personal hardships with his sons cancer), then what does that say about the other 4 years?

I think we have hammered this to death. As I keep saying, I hope it doesn't come to this, as we have a good chunk of the year left, and as good a shot as nearly any B1G team (outside Wisconsin and Maryland) of still making the NCAA's.

You say you don't judge him on that one year but if they didn't collapse and got a 4 seed and a sweet 16 or better, you wouldn't be judging him harshly at all. I just don't understand how someone can use the first years as strikes against him. This year not making the tournament is a strike, I get that. But years 1 and 2?

I mean come on. He made the tournament in a year where his son had cancer and what does that say about the other years? It says we had a terrible team left by a terrible coach.

Now that I think about it, Fran was on the same exact path as Kirk before the collapse. 1st year terrible. 2nd year a little better, 3rd year even better and you could tell they were on the verge. 4th year awesome until the collapse. 5th year is yet to be seen but almost certainly a drop off from where they could have been without the collapse. Kirk's 5th year was a slight drop off too.

Everything is all about the collapse. Without it Fran would be the man in everyone's eyes and no one would have much doubt about this year because they wouldn't be gun shy.

 

[PCHawk]

Next year will tell us what we need to know about Fran's future.

I think what most agree is that we still lack the true talent that it takes for us to take the next step and to be a lock in the NCAA tourney team and to battle for a conference championship.

So is this recruiting class have the type of talent that guys can come in and contribute right away? The good news is it seems we have 1 piece in place for the future and that's Uhl as we have seen him contribute some this year. But I'd like to see even better production from some of hte new guys. If we see Ellingson come in and play the minutes of the 2 instead of one of the new comers.

If new comers are playing right away, that's when we know we have an infusion of upgrade in talent.

I agrer big time about next year being telling. If it's not obvious that we can't eventually win big with next year's class, or we haven't landed a huge recruit for the following year, then I will have some doubts that we can move up with Fran. If this class isn't good, it's almost inevitable we will trend down after next year.

 

[docholihawk]

The program is clearing trending up...just showing the year by year trend.

Year 1 - No post season
Year 2 - NIT
Year 3 - NIT Championship
Year 4 - NCAA
Year 5 - Incomplete

An NCAA berth and 1 win is still trending upward for the 5th year in a row.

Yes we're trending up and at this pace we should make the final for in 10 or 15 years. We've been a bubble team the last 2 years and we will be again this year. The Big 10 is down this year compared to the last two years we should be doing better.

 

[docholihawk]

He made the tournament in a year where his son had cancer and what does that say about the other years? It says we had a terrible team left by a terrible coach.


I wish I could understand what this means.

 

[docholihawk]

You say you don't judge him on that one year but if they didn't collapse and got a 4 seed and a sweet 16 or better, you wouldn't be judging him harshly at all. I just don't understand how someone can use the first years as strikes against him. This year not making the tournament is a strike, I get that. But years 1 and 2?

I mean come on. He made the tournament in a year where his son had cancer and what does that say about the other years? It says we had a terrible team left by a terrible coach.

Now that I think about it, Fran was on the same exact path as Kirk before the collapse. 1st year terrible. 2nd year a little better, 3rd year even better and you could tell they were on the verge. 4th year awesome until the collapse. 5th year is yet to be seen but almost certainly a drop off from where they could have been without the collapse. Kirk's 5th year was a slight drop off too.

Everything is all about the collapse. Without it Fran would be the man in everyone's eyes and no one would have much doubt about this year because they wouldn't be gun shy.

If you continue to deal in ifs this could go on forever.

 

[PCHawk]

He made the tournament in a year where his son had cancer and what does that say about the other years? It says we had a terrible team left by a terrible coach.


I wish I could understand what this means.

Sorry I was quoting what dean said and then aanswering the question. Should have used quotation marks.

 

[PCHawk]

If you continue to deal in ifs this could go on forever.

I'm only using 1 if. IF the collapse wouldn't have happened, everything would be great. I think that's fair to say, especially when I said earlier that the collapse probably had a lot to do with his son getting cancer. How could anyone possibly do their job effectively in that situation. Other than that collapse, Fran has done great. Being a fringe NCAA team after losing your best player wouldn't be near as big of an issue IF we didn't collapse last year. And that's IF we are a fringe NCAA team. We have a very managable schedule after Saturday.

 

[PCHawk]

Yes we're trending up and at this pace we should make the final for in 10 or 15 years. We've been a bubble team the last 2 years and we will be again this year. The Big 10 is down this year compared to the last two years we should be doing better.

Do you really fire a coach that is trending up just because it's not fast enough? Our trending up might take this year off but do you really fire a coach after just 1 year of not trending up?