I don't get how you can call for Frans head.

I have had a couple of conversations with him and I agree, he is a great person. You can see how much he genuinely loves the game and cares about kids, by watching him interact with young boys. He is approachable too. But this isn't a popularity contest. It's high Division 1 competitive basketball. The goal is to win Conference titles and occasionally make deep runs into the NCAA tournament. To do that, you have to be a good coach and a great recruiter, at a place like Iowa. I'm sorry, as much as I like him, he gets NO breaks for being a nice guy. Year 5 or 6 should be a top 3 finish in the BIG conference.
Keep in mind. A certain nameless football coach won a BIG title in years 4 and 6 of his tenure.


How can you say we should be top 3 team just because of what year Fran is in? There are a lot of schools with 5 year head coaches.
 
PC I agree w/ya there...for some reason teams around us seem to get better, and for some reason we just are middle of the pack....I'm excited w/the crew of kids coming in, but they have no idea what it's like to play in this league.....I'm hopeful there's some good out of this group, but Fran will probably coach how he's always done it.....top 3? maybe, we'll have to see next year.....
 
Fran has us in a position where we are pretty much tied with 10 other teams for 2nd best in the conference. The only difference in the final standings between those 10 teams will be how many close games you win.
 
How can you say we should be top 3 team just because of what year Fran is in? There are a lot of schools with 5 year head coaches.
Top 3 in conference is not too much to ask for year 5/6. That's my opinion anyway. Look at the BIG conference this year. Wisconsin and Maryland are legit teams. The next best team is up for grabs and will most likely end up being a team that wasn't predicted to be there. Not sure when Iowa fans became so "chicken little". Kirk Ferentz really does understand his customers and how to undersell the product to keep expectations low.
 
Yea I'm comparing the job Fran is doing this year to the job Izzo is doing. Let me ask you this. Who had more to work with to start the season? Also you're nuts to say the team 2 years ago was a tournament team. They were a team that had a small chance to over achieve and make the tourney.

The season isn't over yet. Last year at this time we were #10 in the nation.....how did that work out for us?

The team two years ago was a choke job away from the tourney. They don't blow that MSU game and they are in. Just one in a long line of choke jobs.....the final 7 games last year, blowing multiple leads this year. Iowa has like the second or third most blown halftime leads since 2011.....but I'm sure the coach isn't responsible for any of this??
 
Top 3 in conference is not too much to ask for year 5/6. That's my opinion anyway. Look at the BIG conference this year. Wisconsin and Maryland are legit teams. The next best team is up for grabs and will most likely end up being a team that wasn't predicted to be there. Not sure when Iowa fans became so "chicken little". Kirk Ferentz really does understand his customers and how to undersell the product to keep expectations low.


I agree that the way this year turned out, top 3 is doable. I just don't think it should be a given based on how long a coach is here. And I sure don't think it's a firable offense. There is a huge difference between being chicken little and being smart enough to know you shouldn't burn through coaches because we can't surpass Izzo and Michigan State, Ryan and Wisconsin, Matta and OSU, and so on.

This isn't football where all we have to do is be average to win our division. There are 4 or 5 very successful coaches at very established programs sitting at the top of our conference. Fran has us at darn near the same level as them now. To just assume we should be guaranteed a top 3 just because it's Fran's 5th year is a little extreme.
 
The season isn't over yet. Last year at this time we were #10 in the nation.....how did that work out for us?

The team two years ago was a choke job away from the tourney. They don't blow that MSU game and they are in. Just one in a long line of choke jobs.....the final 7 games last year, blowing multiple leads this year. Iowa has like the second or third most blown halftime leads since 2011.....but I'm sure the coach isn't responsible for any of this??


The team 2 years ago was a choke job away from the tourney because of the unbelievably good coaching job Fran did. He got damn near max potential out of them. Look at the roster and tell me how you think they should have been a lock for the tourney.

The end of last season sucked bad. There is no way to know what happened. Was Fran an awesome coach that put together a top 10 team that collapsed? Is Fran a terrible coach that got lucky for half the year before the true team came out? Again, look at the roster and tell me how that team should have been so good. Fran worked a miracle to get them to a top 10 ranking.

You're upset because they underachieved the expectations you set for them based on how good Fran had them. This is obviously an extreme example but that's like being mad at a coach who puts together the best team in the nation for 3 strait years only to lose in the final 4. He missed your expectations by 1 game 2 years ago and by about 3 or 4 games last year. To have those expectations so shortly after being the laughing stock of college basketball is pretty awesome though.
 
I agree that the way this year turned out, top 3 is doable. I just don't think it should be a given based on how long a coach is here. And I sure don't think it's a firable offense. There is a huge difference between being chicken little and being smart enough to know you shouldn't burn through coaches because we can't surpass Izzo and Michigan State, Ryan and Wisconsin, Matta and OSU, and so on.

This isn't football where all we have to do is be average to win our division. There are 4 or 5 very successful coaches at very established programs sitting at the top of our conference. Fran has us at darn near the same level as them now. To just assume we should be guaranteed a top 3 just because it's Fran's 5th year is a little extreme.
#1. I'm not suggesting top 3 every year.
#2. Top 3 is not doable with this team, this year or next.
#3. I'm not sure what 4 or 5 coaches you are referring to, please enlighten.
#4. 10th, 7th, 6th and 6th is Fran's finishes to date. We are currently 4-3, soon to be 4-4 after Wisconsin.
#5. Look at the '15 recruiting class and add that to this Iowa team - subtract Olesani, White and Ogelsby and what do you figure next year's chances are?
 
I like Fran and I want him to get a little more time to see what he can do. He may need to seriously consider a staff shakeup if this team doesn't make the tournament or returns to the NIT. Those outcomes won't sit well with the fan base.

If Fran doesn't pan out, and I would rate the chance of that happening as 50/50, my very real fear is that Iowa basketball has become the equivalent of Iowa State football: perennial losers, irregardless of who's in charge. Except we can't beat the hated cross-state rival.
 
The team 2 years ago was a choke job away from the tourney because of the unbelievably good coaching job Fran did. He got damn near max potential out of them. Look at the roster and tell me how you think they should have been a lock for the tourney.

The end of last season sucked bad. There is no way to know what happened. Was Fran an awesome coach that put together a top 10 team that collapsed? Is Fran a terrible coach that got lucky for half the year before the true team came out? Again, look at the roster and tell me how that team should have been so good. Fran worked a miracle to get them to a top 10 ranking.

You're upset because they underachieved the expectations you set for them based on how good Fran had them. This is obviously an extreme example but that's like being mad at a coach who puts together the best team in the nation for 3 strait years only to lose in the final 4. He missed your expectations by 1 game 2 years ago and by about 3 or 4 games last year. To have those expectations so shortly after being the laughing stock of college basketball is pretty awesome though.

I expect any new coach to be in the NCAA tourney in year 3 actually. You can completely re make a BB team in 2 years. I most definitely expect it in years 4 and 5.

That said I can live with 2 out of 3 of those year. It isn't like I'm hating on Fran, or want him to lose, or even want him gone. I want him to succeed, but if he doesn't this is a results oriented business, and making the NCAA 1 time in 5 years isn't getting it done. I hope this doesn't happen, I hope this is just me being a negative Nancy, and we make the tourney, and all of this hand wringing by me is for naught.
 
#1. I'm not suggesting top 3 every year.
#2. Top 3 is not doable with this team, this year or next.
#3. I'm not sure what 4 or 5 coaches you are referring to, please enlighten.
#4. 10th, 7th, 6th and 6th is Fran's finishes to date. We are currently 4-3, soon to be 4-4 after Wisconsin.
#5. Look at the '15 recruiting class and add that to this Iowa team - subtract Olesani, White and Ogelsby and what do you figure next year's chances are?


#1. Not every year, but it has to be specifically in year 5-6?
#2. The way the conference is this year, it's not unreasonable to have expected a team good enough to get a top 3 finish. If the conference was as good as last year, a top 3 expectation would have been high in my opinion.
#3. I listed 3 coaches. Throw in Michigan.
#4.7th, 6th, 6th is damn good compared to the cellar, cellar, cellar we were in. The last 6th wasn't great but collapses happen. Hopefully and more than likely it's jot common with Fran.
#5 look at White's recruiting class ranking and you will see 2 players that look like they won't be good contributors and 1 that looks like he will. How did that work out? I would feel better with 4 stars but I'm not going to assume they suck before they get here.
 
I expect any new coach to be in the NCAA tourney in year 3 actually. You can completely re make a BB team in 2 years. I most definitely expect it in years 4 and 5.

That said I can live with 2 out of 3 of those year. It isn't like I'm hating on Fran, or want him to lose, or even want him gone. I want him to succeed, but if he doesn't this is a results oriented business, and making the NCAA 1 time in 5 years isn't getting it done. I hope this doesn't happen, I hope this is just me being a negative Nancy, and we make the tourney, and all of this hand wringing by me is for naught.


I would almost always agree with your first line. But we were in such bad shape when he got here. It was bad bad. If he could have showed up with almost jo scholarship players and a non broken image like Fred did, he would have been better off. Instead we still had Zack McCabe on our roster last year. He chose to build a team around the players that were here. Maybe that was a bad idea as far as getting quick results goes but I don't think he should be condemned for his results the first 2 years because of that.
 
I like Fran and I want him to get a little more time to see what he can do. He may need to seriously consider a staff shakeup if this team doesn't make the tournament or returns to the NIT. Those outcomes won't sit well with the fan base.

If Fran doesn't pan out, and I would rate the chance of that happening as 50/50, my very real fear is that Iowa basketball has become the equivalent of Iowa State football: perennial losers, irregardless of who's in charge. Except we can't beat the hated cross-state rival.



^^^^^This is where I am at. FM may need to shakeup his staff, bring in a stronger a recruiter, someone who can tap into FM's East Coast ties. I have no idea what type of closer FM is so he may want to change his approach......I dunno. I lean toward PChawk in this debate as a long time Iowa Bball fan I do not have the energy to get behind another coach and the process of implementing his philosophy and establishing recruiting ties.....just do not have the patience for it anymore. I rather roll dice and hope FM can figure it out.
 
I have had a couple of conversations with him and I agree, he is a great person. You can see how much he genuinely loves the game and cares about kids, by watching him interact with young boys. He is approachable too. But this isn't a popularity contest. It's high Division 1 competitive basketball. The goal is to win Conference titles and occasionally make deep runs into the NCAA tournament. To do that, you have to be a good coach and a great recruiter, at a place like Iowa. I'm sorry, as much as I like him, he gets NO breaks for being a nice guy. Year 5 or 6 should be a top 3 finish in the BIG conference.
Keep in mind. A certain nameless football coach won a BIG title in years 4 and 6 of his tenure.

I agree with this. Sure, I would rather our coach be a nice guy than a jerk, but for me, it all comes down to wins and losses when it's all said and done. I'd rather have a jerk who wins than a nice guy who doesn't. I know there are some who don't agree, and they have a right to their own opinions and feelings, but in my mind, the entire point of watching Iowa sports is rooting for them to win, and I don't enjoy losing, no matter who our coach or players are. Being "nice" doesn't excuse losing.

Now, regarding the nameless coach you just mentioned - a good point is made there. People act like it's impossible to win in 4-5 years because of where Lick left us, but people seem to forget that KF inherited a program that also was in shambles, and his team ran the table in conference play his 4th year, and went to the Orange Bowl, and were also in the national title picture, albeit a long shot. He shared another conference title in year 6. And I think most people also believe that it's harder to build a football program than it is a basketball program, due to sheer number of recruits that it takes. So if KF can do it, so can Fran. There should be no excuses 5 years into a coach's tenure.

I am NOT in the "NCAA this year or fire Fran" camp. I stopped giving out free passes after the first 2-3 years or so, but I feel Fran has certainly done enough so far to warrant more patience. That said, we'll see where he takes us from here. I'd like to see how things are looking around the 2016-17 season or so before making any rash judgments.
 
Like most of the posters on this thread, I am in a real hurry to achieve a BT title in basketball. I get very frustrated with middle of the pack finishes; I agree that competing for a title should not take a lot of years in basketball.

That said: To judge a program's, or coach's success strictly on wins/losses is an over simplification. I sat through the Lick years, as many of you did. We rarely, if ever, went into a game really expecting a win. I would ask you this: When is the last time, under Fran, that you went into a game NOT believing that the Hawks could come out on top? As many pointed out in their posts, we were the laughing stock of the conference until Fran arrived on the scene. Are we any where close to that position now? Take a look at Iowa's rosters for a few years back before Fran arrived. How many on each roster would be impact players on the 14-15 team? In pure athleticism, how do Fran's teams compare to Lick's, or even to the majority of Alford's players?

BT basketball this year in particular, is a dog eat dog conference. The differences among the top 1/2 conference teams are in fact, very small with little margin for error. I still think that the last three years we have been right there, but just can't quite get over the hump. We better hang on for a while and see how this plays out. Coaching merry go rounds are rarely successful.

Just my thoughts...
 
The team 2 years ago started a freshman center, a freshman point guard, and Anthony Clemmons for a pretty good portion of the year. How is that an tournament team? Fran did great to give that team a chance.


He did do that and with that you expect a coach and players to improve every year. How much better is this team than the team of 2 years ago. When we have to hire a coach do you sit back and say I hope we can get to 20 wins and go to a first round game every 4 years and then we can extend his contract for life.
 
I agree with this. Sure, I would rather our coach be a nice guy than a jerk, but for me, it all comes down to wins and losses when it's all said and done. I'd rather have a jerk who wins than a nice guy who doesn't. I know there are some who don't agree, and they have a right to their own opinions and feelings, but in my mind, the entire point of watching Iowa sports is rooting for them to win, and I don't enjoy losing, no matter who our coach or players are. Being "nice" doesn't excuse losing.

Now, regarding the nameless coach you just mentioned - a good point is made there. People act like it's impossible to win in 4-5 years because of where Lick left us, but people seem to forget that KF inherited a program that also was in shambles, and his team ran the table in conference play his 4th year, and went to the Orange Bowl, and were also in the national title picture, albeit a long shot. He shared another conference title in year 6. And I think most people also believe that it's harder to build a football program than it is a basketball program, due to sheer number of recruits that it takes. So if KF can do it, so can Fran. There should be no excuses 5 years into a coach's tenure.

I am NOT in the "NCAA this year or fire Fran" camp. I stopped giving out free passes after the first 2-3 years or so, but I feel Fran has certainly done enough so far to warrant more patience. That said, we'll see where he takes us from here. I'd like to see how things are looking around the 2016-17 season or so before making any rash judgments.


I agree that the Lick excuse doesn't work anymore. But it does still work to rebuttal someone's arguement that we have only been to the tourney once in 4 years. Especially when that once was last year.

He built a top 10 team last year and it got derailed. At this time last year I had newborn twins. A year later I fully understand what it would do to my life if one of them got cancer. I hadn't given it much thought recently but for some reason I though of it today and I'm convinced that's what happened last year. There is simply no way it couldn't have affected the job he did.

I think it was Bilas who said he has never seen a team as prepared for what Michigan State was trying to do. When you couple that with my opinion that Fran's teams have always been better than the individual players (except the end of last year) and it's easy to see that Fran's game prep is a big reason for the team's success. That advantage took a big hit with Patrick's cancer.
 
Like most of the posters on this thread, I am in a real hurry to achieve a BT title in basketball. I get very frustrated with middle of the pack finishes; I agree that competing for a title should not take a lot of years in basketball.

That said: To judge a program's, or coach's success strictly on wins/losses is an over simplification. I sat through the Lick years, as many of you did. We rarely, if ever, went into a game really expecting a win. I would ask you this: When is the last time, under Fran, that you went into a game NOT believing that the Hawks could come out on top? As many pointed out in their posts, we were the laughing stock of the conference until Fran arrived on the scene. Are we any where close to that position now? Take a look at Iowa's rosters for a few years back before Fran arrived. How many on each roster would be impact players on the 14-15 team? In pure athleticism, how do Fran's teams compare to Lick's, or even to the majority of Alford's players?

BT basketball this year in particular, is a dog eat dog conference. The differences among the top 1/2 conference teams are in fact, very small with little margin for error. I still think that the last three years we have been right there, but just can't quite get over the hump. We better hang on for a while and see how this plays out. Coaching merry go rounds are rarely successful.

Just my thoughts...


I'm not in favor of Fran losing his job this year but I don't see the program trending up. We seem to be stalling the last 2-3 years as a bubble team. As to your point of expecting wins I rarely expect Iowa to win. I usually think we have as much of a chance to win as we do to lose. Just like football we've lost so many times when I expected wins I just don't allow myself to expect them as much. I hope Fran is here for life and takes us to heights we've never seen before but it will take more than what I've seen so far to expect it.
 
He did do that and with that you expect a coach and players to improve every year. How much better is this team than the team of 2 years ago. When we have to hire a coach do you sit back and say I hope we can get to 20 wins and go to a first round game every 4 years and then we can extend his contract for life.

If we only make 1 more tournament in the next 4 years I'll be leading the charge. We are really close to being a damn good team. If it wasn't for all the near misses with game changing recruits, I would be more indifferent with Fran. It's still possible he will always be an "almost" coach. If that's the case we still have a pretty competitive team. I'm just afraid we might run off a really good coach who got unlucky a few times just because of inpatients.
 
I'm not in favor of Fran losing his job this year but I don't see the program trending up. We seem to be stalling the last 2-3 years as a bubble team. As to your point of expecting wins I rarely expect Iowa to win. I usually think we have as much of a chance to win as we do to lose. Just like football we've lost so many times when I expected wins I just don't allow myself to expect them as much. I hope Fran is here for life and takes us to heights we've never seen before but it will take more than what I've seen so far to expect it.


I don't think he meant we expect to win. He meant we don't expect to lose. There is only 1 game all year I though we only had a small chance to win and that was at wisconsin. There are only about 5 teams this year that should ever expect to win. It's just to easy to lose in basketball.
 

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