I don't get how you can call for Frans head.

[ArvadaHawk]

Totally unfair. Landing Gesell and his 7-foot buddy at the time, both top 100 recruits IIRC, and especially keeping Woody from wearing the light blue in Chapel Hill, was viewed as huge --HUGE -- at the time. It looked like Iowa finally had a go-getter coach who could recruit. The fan base was orgasmic. I don't think anyone thought those two were "misses."

The fact is both players have simply not developed into strong BoneG players under Fran. Is that the staff's fault or more the fact that, as we have seen, neither player has the tools to be power players in the conference? Mike is serviceable only and probably more suited to the MAC or a division lower. At UNC, Woody would be a reserve, not the starting center.

But I guess you saw all that four years ago. Have you considered applying for a job with the basketball staff? I have no doubt you'd be nails.

Amen, tweeter. You got it right re: Woody and MG being the "fans" choice. Remember we needed a coach that would "lockdown the boarders?" Fran has done that. He even went out and got a kid to return to Iowa. Woody, MG, JO, Jok and JU are all Iowa born kids and are the best the state of Iowa had to offer, at that time, and Fran has absolutely met the Iowa fans demands, when it comes to recruiting Iowa kids

I think there is a bit of taking out frustrations on Fran for the mess we have with our football program. Fans want someone's head and since it can't be kfootball's they want Frans. That is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Let's just think about yesterday's game for a moment. Within the first 4 minutes of the game we were without our team leader and our center to the point where several rotations had to be improvised. This team came all the back from down 12, on the road, to take the lead. This team played with heart, passion and a desire to win and they almost did. Yesterday's experience will serve this team well, this season.

 

[528646]

I think its way too early to call for his head. While I do have some concerns, I think you have to step back and look at things in the big picture. We're a program with middle of the pack tradition coming off a particularly mediocre (under Alford) to bad (under Lickliter) stretch. This led to Fran taking over a program with very few serviceable Big Ten quality players at a time where we were off the national radar in every sense of the phrase.

Fast forward to today and - despite what we saw yesterday - I think we have a really good chance of making it to back to back NCAA tournaments. To me, that's pretty significant improvement given where this program was when Fran found it.

I think your primary confounding factors contributing a lot of noise to the equation are (1) people are (rightfully) ****** off at Ferentz, which leads to a more pessimistic view of Iowa athletics in general and (2) ISU hitting the jackpot with Hoiberg (if you think it is a lock that Iowa is going to go out and find some schmuck off the street to do what Hoiberg is doing in Ames, you're crazy!)

 

[droidhawk]

Totally unfair. Landing Gesell and his 7-foot buddy at the time, both top 100 recruits IIRC, and especially keeping Woody from wearing the light blue in Chapel Hill, was viewed as huge --HUGE -- at the time. It looked like Iowa finally had a go-getter coach who could recruit. The fan base was orgasmic. I don't think anyone thought those two were "misses."

The fact is both players have simply not developed into strong BoneG players under Fran. Is that the staff's fault or more the fact that, as we have seen, neither player has the tools to be power players in the conference? Mike is serviceable only and probably more suited to the MAC or a division lower. At UNC, Woody would be a reserve, not the starting center.

But I guess you saw all that four years ago. Have you considered applying for a job with the basketball staff? I have no doubt you'd be nails.

Wow you couldn't have interpreted my comments any more wrong. What I'm saying is no one could've predicted them being misses. They should have been immediate program changers and they weren't even close. I'm cutting him slack here. Tyler Ullis would've been a program changer too and circumstances just went against us. Besides those 3, he's tried to plug holes with projects, also, typical considering the shape of our program when he took over.
Is this clear enough for you? I'm saying, cut Fran some slack here. Are we good now? You got it? Are you sure?

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Wow you couldn't have interpreted my comments any more wrong. What I'm saying is no one could've predicted them being misses. They should have been immediate program changers and they weren't even close. I'm cutting him slack here. Tyler Ullis would've been a program changer too and circumstances just went against us. Besides those 3, he's tried to plug holes with projects, also, typical considering the shape of our program when he took over.
Is this clear enough for you? I'm saying, cut Fran some slack here. Are we good now? You got it? Are you sure?

I took it the same way tweeter did and now I get it. And I do agree. Fran did exactly what the fans were dictating (at least publicly stating) by signing all of the top Iowa kids.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I kind of laugh at the fact that some of you are calling for Fran to be fired. It's a joke, really. Often times during the game I see them run a good offensive set and have the right defense called and BOOM.. we miss open jump shots and open layouts. Or, we stand flat footed on Defense.

Fran isn't out there missing open shots or failing to get around a screen or get back on Help.

I think it has more to do with the fact that this particular recruiting class is a very weak minded group. Until Woodbury, Gessel, and White are gone, I think you'll see this team implode. As soon as a few shots are missed, you can see the players body language just get pathetic and lose confidence.

I like this recruiting class coming in next year and thing it's going to be much, much more physical and that's what we lack in the worst way possible. The guys we have are for the most part already built for college, and Big 10 specific ball.

Fran is the man for the job. And I'm sticking to it.

People said the same things about Alford and Lick, and if you ask me, that's a total cop out. That implies that the coaches have zero control over how their teams perform.

#1, better recruiting can help that. #2, I think at least some of these things can be coached. No, if a player misses a shot, it isn't Fran's fault, but as a whole, the product on the floor ultimately is the coaching staff's responsibility.

But no, I am not calling for Fran's head at this point.

Here's my take: With the current level of talent he's bringing in though, I feel Iowa hoops is at or near its ceiling. I don't KNOW this, but just a gut feeling. Iowa hasn't won an NCAA game since 2001, and the jury is still out IMO on whether Fran can change that. I hope he can, but I need to see the goods.

Next year's incoming class may end up being solid, but I'm not sure it addresses the glaring needs at PG, and what will soon be a need in the paint once White and especially Olaseni are gone after this year. My belief is that there are going to be a lot of unanswered questions going into next year, and I expect the team will get pushed around in the paint. Can Gesell stay aggressive and perform like he did yesterday? Hopefully, but if not, the PG situation will still be pretty shaky. Still, Woody can't play 40 mpg so I'm not sure where our post presence will come from if he's in foul trouble, injured (hope not), or just needs a rest.

Fran has done a good enough job where I feel we should stand by him for at least 2-3 more years, but as I said, I think the jury is still out.

If you're happy with NIT or play-in round NCAA losses, then I guess you could say that Fran is getting it done, but I think most of us feel that Iowa basketball can and should be able to achieve more (similar to Mr. Davis success or better).

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Fran has pulled this team up from the ash heap. It would be stupid to fire him and it is probably a small minority who want him fired when the hawks have a tough loss.

This team has had some unbelievably bad shooting for about 3 years. Jok is supposed to be a shooter, so is Josh Ogs but they arent doing it, Fran can't help that. These guys are supposed to make a lot of these shots.

We have a good nucleus back next year and some decent recruits coming in ( I dont follow bball recruiting much) and maybe the incoming recruits are better than what we have now.

And I like Dom Uhl who I think will be a really good silky smooth type ball player.

I'm no coach, but I'm starting to think that I don't care for the motion offense. It's Fran's style (correct?) and IIRC, Alford also ran a motion offense, and it seems to me that it results in a lot of players trying to go 1-on-1 and end up taking contested jump shots. It just seems Iowa ends up taking a lot of 15-17 foot jumpers that are contested.

I'm sure if you had better players and more who guys who can create their own shots, and if executed properly, maybe it would work better, but I suppose you could say that about any offense. I guess what I'm getting at, is that I'm wondering if it's the degree of difficulty on many of our shots, rather than the raw shooting ability of some of our players. Yeah, they do miss a lot of open looks too, but I wonder if it starts to become a confidence issue.

That said, I think Bobby Knight also ran a motion offense and obviously was able to win games, but then again, we're talking about a HOF coach.

Maybe those with more X's and O's knowledge than I have could explain more about how the offense is supposed to work, but it doesn't see like Iowa gets a lot of high % shots.

 

[528646]

I'm no coach, but I'm starting to think that I don't care for the motion offense. It's Fran's style (correct?) and IIRC, Alford also ran a motion offense, and it seems to me that it results in a lot of players trying to go 1-on-1 and end up taking contested jump shots. It just seems Iowa ends up taking a lot of 15-17 foot jumpers that are contested.

I'm sure if you had better players and more who guys who can create their own shots, and if executed properly, maybe it would work better, but I suppose you could say that about any offense. I guess what I'm getting at, is that I'm wondering if it's the degree of difficulty on many of our shots, rather than the raw shooting ability of some of our players. Yeah, they do miss a lot of open looks too, but I wonder if it starts to become a confidence issue.

That said, I think Bobby Knight also ran a motion offense and obviously was able to win games, but then again, we're talking about a HOF coach.

Maybe those with more X's and O's knowledge than I have could explain more about how the offense is supposed to work, but it doesn't see like Iowa gets a lot of high % shots.

Motion offense is indeed supposed to get you easy, open looks - think of a spot up guy shedding his man due to a pick and getting a quick pass for an open 3, or a guy getting a step on his man streaking to the hoop for an easy lay up, or forcing the defense into a switch theyd rather not make (a guard on a big or vice versa). Run well, these are the types of things motion creates and it can help compensate for having a lineup of guys who don't excel at getting their own shots. The problem comes in when you aren't running it with enough energy or getting lazy with your screens...or the defense just does a really good job staying disciplined, anticipating/fighting through screens. Guess what happens then? Yup, you end up with 10-15 seconds on the clock with 1 guy holding the ball and the other 4 guys standing flat footed and panting! Now youve got a guy not used to being asked to create trying - as youve astutely observed - to go 1 on 1 which all too often ends in a contested jumper.

In theory, a guy like Fran who really knows motion can watch the offensive flow and how the defense is reacting and instruct the guys on little subtlties here & there to keep the open looks coming.

 

[528646]

One other thing - this is no way meant to discredit your opinion of thinking you don't really care for the motion offense (there are plenty of coaches that know more about basketball than the 2 of us combined X 10 who agree with you), but there are some specifics of the college game that do make the motion offense a really tempting (and often successful) type of offense.

(1) The long shot clock (you can execute a buttload of screens cuts in a 20-25+ second window before having to go into "oh crap" mode) puts a lot of pressure of defensive discipline.

(2) Relatively poor ball skills in the college game (as opposed to the pro game where a much higher % of your guys will be comfortable with the ball).

(3) How much hand checking defenses get away with at the collegiate level (which got MUCH better for a stretch last year, but I think we've been on a slow slide backwards). This discourages 1-on-1 style play b/c defenders are able to make themselves so tough to get around.

 

[PCHawk]

Gesell turning out to be not even an average B10 pg has really hurt Fran more than anything else.

I agree. He does still have time though. The 2nd half proved he has it in him. If he can do that in one half against 7'ers, hopefully he can put more games like that together to help us go undefeated against the bottom of the conference. Cause that's what it's going to take to make the tournament.

 

[lightning1]

Go 4-2 at home, 3-2 on the road, not going to say it will happen, but it is doable. A split with Maryland/Wiscy at home for the next 2 would be huge.

7 wins is doable but so is 2 wins. Especially if White is hindered.

 

[lightning1]

I took it the same way tweeter did and now I get it. And I do agree. Fran did exactly what the fans were dictating (at least publicly stating) by signing all of the top Iowa kids.

That's how I see it. Fran was expected to sign them and he did. If he hadn't missed on so many other recruits, they might be relegated to role player status and have a smaller role in today's team.

 

[brhawks18]

Fran is the best thing that's happened to Iowa Basketball in a long time. He has taken four different programs to the NCAA tournament and is the first to do so with three programs from one-bid leagues. For what it's worth, he also has a 100 percent graduation rate among student-athletes he has recruited who have used up their eligibility. With a program that was as big a mess as you can find short of NCAA violations, we are lucky to have him.

Plus, for those of us who've been lucky enough to get to know him a little, he's a great person, family man and bleeds black and gold.

Now, if he were in his 16th year at Iowa like another coach who'll remain nameless, then maybe we should be concerned.

 

[phdsvp]

I guess I'm in the middle on all of this. I don't think he should be fired this year, and I'm positive that he won't. However, I'm not yet convinced that he's that great of a coach, as others have said. He definitely can't be called a great recruiter yet. In four years, we have 1/2 of an NCAA bid. If we take a step back this year, I'd have some pretty solid NCAA expectations for this year, or else I might start figuring that this is pretty much all he can do at this level. It's okay to have an NIT-type of bobble. But only one, especially if you're trying to get Iowa basketball back to be able to compete in the minds of the better 15-18 year old players.

 

[docholihawk]

Totally unfair. Landing Gesell and his 7-foot buddy at the time, both top 100 recruits IIRC, and especially keeping Woody from wearing the light blue in Chapel Hill, was viewed as huge --HUGE -- at the time. It looked like Iowa finally had a go-getter coach who could recruit. The fan base was orgasmic. I don't think anyone thought those two were "misses."

The fact is both players have simply not developed into strong BoneG players under Fran. Is that the staff's fault or more the fact that, as we have seen, neither player has the tools to be power players in the conference? Mike is serviceable only and probably more suited to the MAC or a division lower. At UNC, Woody would be a reserve, not the starting center.

But I guess you saw all that four years ago. Have you considered applying for a job with the basketball staff? I have no doubt you'd be nails.

It's not Fran's fault that they haven't become top players but it is Fran's job to put people on the floor who can get the job done. Using your logic as long as Fran gets a couple of top 100 recruits even if they all suck and we go 4-28 every year for the next 10 years Fran shouldn't lose his job. When you're the boss excuses don't cut it. You have to achieve the results expected.

 

[PCHawk]

It's not Fran's fault that they haven't become top players but it is Fran's job to put people on the floor who can get the job done. Using your logic as long as Fran gets a couple of top 100 recruits even if they all suck and we go 4-28 every year for the next 10 years Fran shouldn't lose his job. When you're the boss excuses don't cut it. You have to achieve the results expected.

Honestly expected results will never be reached because expectations usually change with the team. Right now most people's expectations are to make the tourney. But if we make the tourney, the expectations will be to get a higher seed or make it deeper.

There are people on here that don't think Fran is doing good enough this year but he's doing just as good as Izzo is.

Right now I'm watching northwestern lead at Maryland by 14. Earlier I watched a team we beat twice beat Indiana. Yesterday I watched the mighty mayor get beat by the worst team in the big 12. But for some reason we lose to a middle of the pack team without our best player and it's the end of the world.

It's like some fans live in a world where all we have to do is try every game and we're guaranteed to win. In the real world, the other team has a say in who wins too and most games are pretty close to 50/50.

 

[deanvogs]

Honestly expected results will never be reached because expectations usually change with the team. Right now most people's expectations are to make the tourney. But if we make the tourney, the expectations will be to get a higher seed or make it deeper.

There are people on here that don't think Fran is doing good enough this year but he's doing just as good as Izzo is.

Right now I'm watching northwestern lead at Maryland by 14. Earlier I watched a team we beat twice beat Indiana. Yesterday I watched the mighty mayor get beat by the worst team in the big 12. But for some reason we lose to a middle of the pack team without our best player and it's the end of the world.

It's like some fans live in a world where all we have to do is try every game and we're guaranteed to win. In the real world, the other team has a say in who wins too and most games are pretty close to 50/50.

You are seriously comparing the job Fran is doing with Izzo? Izzo has 4 NCAA appearances in the last 4 years, Fran has 1. Each season doesn't live in a vacuum, you have to look at see what a coach has done with the teams he's had.

I have said consistently that if Fran makes the NCAA again this year then I am good with him going forward. If he doesn't, I think he should go. The reason I think this is because I feel he has had 3 NCAA caliber teams these last 3 years. If he can only make 1 NCAA tourney with those 3 teams, that just isn't cutting it. If he can make 2 of 3, then that is getting some results, and no need to make a move.

 

[lightning1]

Fran is the best thing that's happened to Iowa Basketball in a long time. He has taken four different programs to the NCAA tournament and is the first to do so with three programs from one-bid leagues. For what it's worth, he also has a 100 percent graduation rate among student-athletes he has recruited who have used up their eligibility. With a program that was as big a mess as you can find short of NCAA violations, we are lucky to have him.

Plus, for those of us who've been lucky enough to get to know him a little, he's a great person, family man and bleeds black and gold.

Now, if he were in his 16th year at Iowa like another coach who'll remain nameless, then maybe we should be concerned.

I have had a couple of conversations with him and I agree, he is a great person. You can see how much he genuinely loves the game and cares about kids, by watching him interact with young boys. He is approachable too. But this isn't a popularity contest. It's high Division 1 competitive basketball. The goal is to win Conference titles and occasionally make deep runs into the NCAA tournament. To do that, you have to be a good coach and a great recruiter, at a place like Iowa. I'm sorry, as much as I like him, he gets NO breaks for being a nice guy. Year 5 or 6 should be a top 3 finish in the BIG conference.
Keep in mind. A certain nameless football coach won a BIG title in years 4 and 6 of his tenure.

 

[1hawkeye1]

I support Fran 100%

 

[PCHawk]

You are seriously comparing the job Fran is doing with Izzo? Izzo has 4 NCAA appearances in the last 4 years, Fran has 1. Each season doesn't live in a vacuum, you have to look at see what a coach has done with the teams he's had.

I have said consistently that if Fran makes the NCAA again this year then I am good with him going forward. If he doesn't, I think he should go. The reason I think this is because I feel he has had 3 NCAA caliber teams these last 3 years. If he can only make 1 NCAA tourney with those 3 teams, that just isn't cutting it. If he can make 2 of 3, then that is getting some results, and no need to make a move.

Yea I'm comparing the job Fran is doing this year to the job Izzo is doing. Let me ask you this. Who had more to work with to start the season? Also you're nuts to say the team 2 years ago was a tournament team. They were a team that had a small chance to over achieve and make the tourney.

 

[PCHawk]

The team 2 years ago started a freshman center, a freshman point guard, and Anthony Clemmons for a pretty good portion of the year. How is that an tournament team? Fran did great to give that team a chance.