How Did Iowa Get Here?

[JonDMiller]

* No doubt in my mind that there are other talented up and comers out there that can be had for 50% less but it's not worth a further discussion at this point as the contract has us locked in. I do think as I have stated before that I could see the possibility that he would depart on his own prior to the contract ending. I often wonder if the master plan was to have some strong years leading up to 2020 with the reins then handed off to Brian Ferentz assuming he showed a strong performance with his responsibilities during this entire time....ie taking our recruiting up a notch along with grooming a talented OL each year. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with that scenario but I think that's a fairy tale right now.

GO HAWKS

There are always 'up and comers'. There are always good coaches. However, another question is would they be successful at Iowa? Kirk knew the challenges, the lay of the land, when he got here. It's just not the easy job that I think some believe it to be.

Now, the program is in a great place right about now. The facilities are all upgraded. There really aren't any more toys that the program needs once this final phase of the practice facility is completed. The stadium is renovated. The program has shown that it will pay top dollar for a coach. These are all good things.

That said, there still isn't an ocean outside of Iowa City and the state still produces 6 to 8 BCS conference caliber players per year and Iowa does not have a national title lineage to draw on. I believe you truly have to work harder AND smarter at Iowa to be successful. You have to understand that you aren't going to be able to compete with Michigan and Ohio State on the recruiting front save once in a blue moon. In fact, you are going to struggle to be in the upper half of the Big Ten recruiting rankings on an annual basis. So that means you had better know the types of players you are most likely going to be able to land and build your program that way.

I think Kirk has done that. However, I think he's been incredibly conservative on offense while building stout defenses. It's straight up NFL. To assume that others are going to slide in and keep on keeping on? No guarantees.

 

[MJSCK]

This thread is awesome. Jon has finally come around to my 7 win or 8 win argument and the rest of you are just spinning in circles.

Here's the issue. KF can't overcome the poor recruiting during the lean years of the program. It is understandable that he would have some difficulty recruiting during those times, but an innovative and aggressive coach, like say Bill Snyder would see what was coming a hit JUCO and transfers like crazy to fill the gap. KF goes fishing and says "gee wiz" when it comes to getting hammered with non competitive talent.

Now that Jon has come around to my 7 and 8 win argument, maybe he should look back at my comments las fall when I was preaching that this year was going to be far worse than last year. The writing was clearly on the wall and the coaches decided to go fishing instead of beating bushes for good transfers.

There were guys available that will be playing on Sunday. It is time that someone calls out the coach on this one.

And, oh yeah, next year is another 7 or fewer year.

Kirk simply isn't that great of a coach anymore. He's well respected for developing talent and teaching the fundamentals but couldn't strategize his way out of a wet paper bag. His clock management skills are awful. His game day coaching is dull, hardly dynamic and sharp, and lacks all creativity. He has been a great administrator in the past but was lazy and lacked tact with Norm's departure. He fell asleep at the wheel with Kaz who should have been canned two years prior.

For some reason, he seems to have become complacent with accepting less talent on the field as long as they are coachable and work hard. Forget speed and big plays, he'd rather a white guy in the secondary who doesn't give up big plays. Strength and conditioning is not what it once was. Rhabdo is in the books and Doyle is hardly lauded on gamedays anymore.

I understand the questionable recruiting classes of '08 and '09 but 2002's success wasn't built with four star recruits. It was built with guys that hustled and worked their a$$es off in the weight room because they had coaches who were also working just as hard. Special teams never made dumb mistakes and commentators talked about how well coached his Ferentz's teams were.

My guess is Kirk burned the midnight oil ten years ago. He made big money, struck out with the big 2005 class, dealt with Abe/Cedric/DJK, and started underachieving. The product started to decline as did his effort. He then realized the program was suffering and has tried to make changes. But is it too late? I'm afraid the team around him sees the lack of his engagement and it has now become the culture there. If so, it is too late.

 

[JonDMiller]

This thread is awesome. Jon has finally come around to my 7 win or 8 win argument and the rest of you are just spinning in circles.

Here's the issue. KF can't overcome the poor recruiting during the lean years of the program. It is understandable that he would have some difficulty recruiting during those times, but an innovative and aggressive coach, like say Bill Snyder would see what was coming a hit JUCO and transfers like crazy to fill the gap. KF goes fishing and says "gee wiz" when it comes to getting hammered with non competitive talent.

Now that Jon has come around to my 7 and 8 win argument, maybe he should look back at my comments las fall when I was preaching that this year was going to be far worse than last year. The writing was clearly on the wall and the coaches decided to go fishing instead of beating bushes for good transfers.

There were guys available that will be playing on Sunday. It is time that someone calls out the coach on this one.

And, oh yeah, next year is another 7 or fewer year.

Caar, I've taken more verbal beatings for the 7 to 8 wins per year mean, over the past decade of doing this, than you'll ever see So I don't believe I've come around to 'your way of thinking'.

 

[JonDMiller]

Begs the question.

Why couldn't Ferentz just explain all this to us? Really. Why not manage fan expectations a bit - he could do that and still turn around and tell his team to go out there and exceed expectations. He understands this stuff better than anyone.

He's so damned smug. He skirts questions that are deemed below him. But nobody ever asked him blunt questions.

Right.

Kirk comes out at the start of the season and says something like "Well, this senior class has been decimated and we're going to be too thin to really mount much of a challenge for this year. But we'll still go out and play the games, and thanks in advance for coming to Kinnick this fall.'

How is that gonna fly? Not far.

 

[MeatMan]

I think EJ will become full time recruiting coordinator and David Raih becomes full time position coach which means he can be on the road recruiting, shortly after signing day this coming February.

who is Raih going to take the place of?

 

[olddude]

There are always 'up and comers'. There are always good coaches. However, another question is would they be successful at Iowa? Kirk knew the challenges, the lay of the land, when he got here. It's just not the easy job that I think some believe it to be.

Now, the program is in a great place right about now. The facilities are all upgraded. There really aren't any more toys that the program needs once this final phase of the practice facility is completed. The stadium is renovated. The program has shown that it will pay top dollar for a coach. These are all good things.

That said, there still isn't an ocean outside of Iowa City and the state still produces 6 to 8 BCS conference caliber players per year and Iowa does not have a national title lineage to draw on. I believe you truly have to work harder AND smarter at Iowa to be successful. You have to understand that you aren't going to be able to compete with Michigan and Ohio State on the recruiting front save once in a blue moon. In fact, you are going to struggle to be in the upper half of the Big Ten recruiting rankings on an annual basis. So that means you had better know the types of players you are most likely going to be able to land and build your program that way.

I think Kirk has done that. However, I think he's been incredibly conservative on offense while building stout defenses. It's straight up NFL. To assume that others are going to slide in and keep on keeping on? No guarantees.

Jon, I like you and you call it as it is. But this is BS and you know it. This is one of those that you wished you had back, if not I am very worried about the state of your objectivity. Look ahead bud. We are on the cusp of falling back, and that is a shame for what has been done here.
Work harder and smarter, I am with you all the way. Thing is we need to get SMARTER. I have told you this in less viewed places. It is either time to let this girl go, OR sit back and lose to mac's while everyone else mac's on the good ones.

 

[JonDMiller]

Jon, I like you and you call it as it is. But this is BS and you know it. This is one of those that you wished you had back, if not I am very worried about the state of your objectivity. Look ahead bud. We are on the cusp of falling back, and that is a shame for what has been done here.
Work harder and smarter, I am with you all the way. Thing is we need to get SMARTER. I have told you this in less viewed places. It is either time to let this girl go, OR sit back and lose to mac's while everyone else mac's on the good ones.

I don't mind when people disagree with me. If I did, this wouldn't be my 13th year doing what I do.

What I do mind is when people disagree with me on the basis that I am doing anything other than giving you my honest opinion. Just because some of things I say and/or write don't jive with your opinion, therefore not validating your emotions, don't assume that I must be lining up on some other agenda.

We disagree. Sometimes, it really can be that simple. But you are wandering into territory that I really don't suffer for long.

 

[JonDMiller]

who is Raih going to take the place of?

EJ is the designated full time assistant coaching Tight Ends right now, with Raih working with him there but Raih cannot go on the road recruiting. He is a former backup QB.

 

[Scorpio79]

I don't mind when people disagree with me. If I did, this wouldn't be my 13th year doing what I do.

What I do mind is when people disagree with me on the basis that I am doing anything other than giving you my honest opinion. Just because some of things I say and/or write don't jive with your opinion, therefore not validating your emotions, don't assume that I must be lining up on some other agenda.

We disagree. Sometimes, it really can be that simple. But you are wandering into territory that I really don't suffer for long.

"jibe", JD. Not "jive".

 

[BabcockIC]

I have never liked the we are a seven win program argument. So we don't have a national title lineage, if we did win the same people would probably say well we need to win four in the next 10 years to get talent. I have read all of the other arguments about recruiting as well. Other programs have had success with less but we can not do that because we are not them. Well what is going to take to be them?

 

[JonDMiller]

"jibe", JD. Not "jive".

Great, then you know what I meant, so its a 'mute' point.

 

[Scorpio79]

Great, then you know what I meant, so its a mute point.

LOL.
I see what you did, and I approve.

 

[mrolympia]

As long as he doesn't pull a JoePa, he'll be fine. Plenty of people will defend his tenure.

40,000 of those people are named Ben Franklin every year

 

[bcl20]

There are always 'up and comers'. There are always good coaches. However, another question is would they be successful at Iowa? Kirk knew the challenges, the lay of the land, when he got here. It's just not the easy job that I think some believe it to be.

Now, the program is in a great place right about now. The facilities are all upgraded. There really aren't any more toys that the program needs once this final phase of the practice facility is completed. The stadium is renovated. The program has shown that it will pay top dollar for a coach. These are all good things.

That said, there still isn't an ocean outside of Iowa City and the state still produces 6 to 8 BCS conference caliber players per year and Iowa does not have a national title lineage to draw on. I believe you truly have to work harder AND smarter at Iowa to be successful. You have to understand that you aren't going to be able to compete with Michigan and Ohio State on the recruiting front save once in a blue moon. In fact, you are going to struggle to be in the upper half of the Big Ten recruiting rankings on an annual basis. So that means you had better know the types of players you are most likely going to be able to land and build your program that way.

I think Kirk has done that. However, I think he's been incredibly conservative on offense while building stout defenses. It's straight up NFL. To assume that others are going to slide in and keep on keeping on? No guarantees.

I pretty much agree with all this.

It takes someone who is really, really good at their job and knows what they are doing and what they are facing to be very successful at Iowa. I strongly feel that Kirk knew exactly how to coach football the way it had been played in the early 2000's and for many years before that and at that time, it's hard for me not to consider him one of the best coaches in the country.

For whatever reason, his skills just haven't transferred very well to the era of college football we are in today. It kind of sucks too because the defensive, run first, smash mouth football we played the first half of the decade was fun to me. That style just doesn't seem to work that great any more unless you have a lot of talent.

 

[olddude]

I don't mind when people disagree with me. If I did, this wouldn't be my 13th year doing what I do.

What I do mind is when people disagree with me on the basis that I am doing anything other than giving you my honest opinion. Just because some of things I say and/or write don't jive with your opinion, therefore not validating your emotions, don't assume that I must be lining up on some other agenda.

We disagree. Sometimes, it really can be that simple. But you are wandering into territory that I really don't suffer for long.

Thats alright. I did not think you had another agenda. Both fans here, no need to get grumpy. I have asked you a question in private and I want to know. If you wish for me to ask it outloud I will. But if you think you are going to threathen me with being banned, guess again. Because if that is what you or this program stands for, well I know why we are losing. My type , we win..... That is what we do. That is why we are here.
As a SS I broke a few bones. Had a friend (OL) who bent a knee backwards, all in hopes of playing for Iowa. Get it? Got it? Good.
Still today @ 40 plus, I would love to put on the pads and here them pop while I layed the wood to Mark. Or last year it was the 100 push up Coker. Are you hearing me? Dont sing it, bring it. You want to ban me? Do it. Because I will just go down the hill and talk to those that are just like me, the dude that sells me beer, played NT for Miami. ARE YOU FEELING ME? Or shall we write this up to another lost opportunity?

 

[Seth53]

Most programs have peaks and valleys, depending on recruiting, injuries, bounces of the ball, etc. etc.

Frankly, the only exception the last 10 years would be Ohio State, and they cheated to accomplish it.

Iowa still has a chance to qualify for a bowl game this year. The season is not over. This staff has recruited well and the future looks good. I'm not sold on Davis, the new OC, but only time will tell.

Don't judge a program by the level of unhappiness on a free message board. Many of the people on these boards don't even bother to go to the games.

I attended the MSU and NW games. Iowa played hard and the differences in our team and MSU and NW was not that great. We have a very average QB - we need to recruit better at that position and think about recruiting a dual threat QB who can move out of the pocket. That would really compliment the Davis offensive schemes. If NW and ISU can recruit mobile QBs, there is no reason why Iowa can't. I'm betting you see that happen.

With all due respect, you simply cannot judge a season "successful" based upon making a bowl game. The entire bowl game scenario is laughably watered down.

How I judge a successful season is a.) wins/losses based upon talent returning/schedule, b.) a bowl game X =/> Outback bowl, and c.) team development (better at the end than the beginning of the season).

We've missed the mark on A, B and C, as we did in Stanzi's senior year.

The program is foundering.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

However you want to debate it, slice it dice it - This program is on the decline and He looks done. He looks like he has aged 15 years in the last 3 seasons.

That guy I saw in the post game video looks washed away, an emptied shell.

This program under Ferentz really has been mostly limp with a couple surges. He had a 2-3 year stretch that was one of the best in Iowa history. Outside of that any real success has appeared to be a fluke.

He is one of the top 3 coaches in Iowa history and I applaud him.

But to me is delusional to think were going to rebound under his regime. I just hope his stuborness doesn't drive this farther and farther into the ground and make it harder for the next guy.

 

[Billso]

I think EJ will become full time recruiting coordinator and David Raih becomes full time position coach which means he can be on the road recruiting, shortly after signing day this coming February.

That would help - Raih is said to be an amazing salesperson - and Brian Ferentz should also be a tremendous asset to recruiting. Add to that a non-crazy DL coach, and a D-coordinator that is physically able to hit the road, and the table is set for improved recruiting. On paper, anyway.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

That would help - Raih is said to be an amazing salesperson - and Brian Ferentz should also be a tremendous asset to recruiting. Add to that a non-crazy DL coach, and a D-coordinator that is physically able to hit the road, and the table is set for improved recruiting. On paper, anyway.

We better not have this lame duck OC....

 

[MeatMan]

With all due respect, you simply cannot judge a season "successful" based upon making a bowl game. The entire bowl game scenario is laughably watered down.

How I judge a successful season is a.) wins/losses based upon talent returning/schedule, b.) a bowl game X =/> Outback bowl, and c.) team development (better at the end than the beginning of the season).

We've missed the mark on A, B and C, as we did in Stanzi's senior year.

The program is foundering.

Seth?

welcome back?!?!