How Did Iowa Get Here?

sdschroe said:
Good article, long thread. A few points:



3) Like everyone, I had high hopes for the 2010 team. The truth is, one of the biggest reasons that team underachieved compared to our expectations is that the 2009 recruiting class made minimal contributions to its success. That team was only a few RS freshman contributors away from being elite. But there was pretty much none. Wegher was gone, and Davis did little. All they had was Hyde. 2010 was the first sign that we would be in trouble for a few years.


So fan frustration is understandable.
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Not a bad post schroe but your point number 3 is complete bullsh8t. No teams success ever stands or falls on a freshman class.
 
Scorpio79 said:
[h=2]Definition of FRAUD[/h]1
a : deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right
b : an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick

2
a : a person who is not what he or she pretends to be :impostor; also : one who defrauds : cheat
b : one that is not what it seems or is represented to be
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Scorp, I do think it's silly to use the term fraud to describe Kirk.

If you have verifiable evidence of Kirk actually being a fraud, based on the clinical definitions you've provided, that would be one thing. Yet, I doubt that is the case.

You may feel as though he is a fraud, because he isn't delivering to you what you want/expect. That's not fraudulent. It may be something else that mostly has to do with an individual's expectations and perceptions.

I've been around Kirk a bit over the past 14 years. I've seen how he has impacted people's lives, I've seen how much he gives back and I've literally seen him lift the spirits of one of my childhood friend's two boys weeks after their mother took their own life in a very public and heinous fashion. I've seen him go out of the way to give them a great day and I spent that day right alongside them...and their dad told me that on the way home, they said it was the best day of their lives...when they really needed it. I've received emails from parents of kids, dozens of emails over the past decade plus, that are similar stories and they wanted someone to know about it.

So no, Scorp. Kirk Ferentz isn't a fraud. He's just not giving you the amount of wins you want. It's OK to be irritated by that, but I'll not sit back and let this sort of crap stand unopposed.

As for not cracking on my opinions; when I write something outlandish and totally off base that you disagree with, I have no problem with you calling that opinion silly.
 
Fraud is easier to spell and use in a sentence than "snake oil salesman".
 
JonDMiller said:
Scorp, I do think it's silly to use the term fraud to describe Kirk.

If you have verifiable evidence of Kirk actually being a fraud, based on the clinical definitions you've provided, that would be one thing. Yet, I doubt that is the case.

You may feel as though he is a fraud, because he isn't delivering to you what you want/expect. That's not fraudulent. It may be something else that mostly has to do with an individual's expectations and perceptions.

I've been around Kirk a bit over the past 14 years. I've seen how he has impacted people's lives, I've seen how much he gives back and I've literally seen him lift the spirits of one of my childhood friend's two boys weeks after their mother took their own life in a very public and heinous fashion. I've seen him go out of the way to give them a great day and I spent that day right alongside them...and their dad told me that on the way home, they said it was the best day of their lives...when they really needed it. I've received emails from parents of kids, dozens of emails over the past decade plus, that are similar stories and they wanted someone to know about it.

So no, Scorp. Kirk Ferentz isn't a fraud. He's just not giving you the amount of wins you want. It's OK to be irritated by that, but I'll not sit back and let this sort of crap stand unopposed.

As for not cracking on my opinions; when I write something outlandish and totally off base that you disagree with, I have no problem with you calling that opinion silly.
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I think I know of the suicide you mention and it was indeed
horrifying and tragic to all involved.
 
ssckelley said:
This is not true, Iowa owned the tie breaker over MSU, Michigan, and Illinois as Iowa defeated all 3 of them.
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Indeed. See B(6)(a) in this link (from before 2011). Method to Determine Big Ten Conference Automatic Representative to Bowl Championship Series - BIG TEN CONFERENCE Official Athletic Site

Also, I'm not sure the 'been to the Rose Bowl more recently tiebreaker' superseded head-to-head result and/or overall record as tiebreakers. Not saying everything for sure comes out the same, but I just have an inkling that our 2002 and 2004 teams don't go to Pasadena, even under the old system.

So, the remaining question is 1981. Following B(1)-(4) from the above link, in which Iowa and Ohio State were all tied up, you come to final BCS ranking determining the Rose Bowl representative. Our best proxy from back then, the AP Poll, had Iowa at #13 and OSU at #15 before the bowls (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1981.html).

Conclusion: under rules until the division split, Hayden still goes to three Rose Bowls. Kirk's teams ... not sure. Possibly two, possibly still zero. The Orange Bowls were fun, though.
 
Because KF is a good person and gives time to charity doesn't make him good football coach. He accepts 4 million a year but only pays his other coaches below market value for top coordinators and position coaches. He is a control freak and is a fraud when he ever opens him mouth about doing what's best for the program.

If he truly had the program in mind like he always says, he would hire top flight coordinators who can recruit and bring in more talent. Instead of worrying if the new guy might have better ideas or get a head coaching job, he would hire the most talented. (Not a relative). iMO.
 
JonDMiller said:
Scorp, I do think it's silly to use the term fraud to describe Kirk.

If you have verifiable evidence of Kirk actually being a fraud, based on the clinical definitions you've provided, that would be one thing. Yet, I doubt that is the case.

You may feel as though he is a fraud, because he isn't delivering to you what you want/expect. That's not fraudulent. It may be something else that mostly has to do with an individual's expectations and perceptions.

I've been around Kirk a bit over the past 14 years. I've seen how he has impacted people's lives, I've seen how much he gives back and I've literally seen him lift the spirits of one of my childhood friend's two boys weeks after their mother took their own life in a very public and heinous fashion. I've seen him go out of the way to give them a great day and I spent that day right alongside them...and their dad told me that on the way home, they said it was the best day of their lives...when they really needed it. I've received emails from parents of kids, dozens of emails over the past decade plus, that are similar stories and they wanted someone to know about it.

So no, Scorp. Kirk Ferentz isn't a fraud. He's just not giving you the amount of wins you want. It's OK to be irritated by that, but I'll not sit back and let this sort of crap stand unopposed.

As for not cracking on my opinions; when I write something outlandish and totally off base that you disagree with, I have no problem with you calling that opinion silly.
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I also know some people that have dealt with Kirk personally and he is a class act and a solid man. There is no doubt about that.

However I think his shelf life as a coach has expired.
 
Regarding the sentiments in the two posts right above this...I concur that someone's personal character does not grant them lifetime employment nor does it mean they are beyond criticism related to their job performance. Not hardly.

That said, just because someone isn't winning as many games as some folks might like, it doesn't mean they are a 'fraud'. Gary Barta didn't have a stipulation in the contact he extended to Kirk that said 'Must win 10 games per year, otherwise contractee will be deemed as a cheat, or thief'.
 
Jon, is KF, in your opinion, meeting the objectives of his position?
Is his compensation commensurate with his ability?
 
JonDMiller said:
Scorp, I do think it's silly to use the term fraud to describe Kirk.

If you have verifiable evidence of Kirk actually being a fraud, based on the clinical definitions you've provided, that would be one thing. Yet, I doubt that is the case.

You may feel as though he is a fraud, because he isn't delivering to you what you want/expect. That's not fraudulent. It may be something else that mostly has to do with an individual's expectations and perceptions.

I've been around Kirk a bit over the past 14 years. I've seen how he has impacted people's lives, I've seen how much he gives back and I've literally seen him lift the spirits of one of my childhood friend's two boys weeks after their mother took their own life in a very public and heinous fashion. I've seen him go out of the way to give them a great day and I spent that day right alongside them...and their dad told me that on the way home, they said it was the best day of their lives...when they really needed it. I've received emails from parents of kids, dozens of emails over the past decade plus, that are similar stories and they wanted someone to know about it.

So no, Scorp. Kirk Ferentz isn't a fraud. He's just not giving you the amount of wins you want. It's OK to be irritated by that, but I'll not sit back and let this sort of crap stand unopposed.

As for not cracking on my opinions; when I write something outlandish and totally off base that you disagree with, I have no problem with you calling that opinion silly.
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This is where you take a stand? All the crap that was said about Vandenberg a couple weeks ago, and all that came from your corner were crickets. But THIS is where you choose to beat back the masses?

Calling Ferentz a fraud as a coach is no different than calling A-Rod, or Matt Ryan a fraud as athletes. You may not agree with those opinions, but they're hardly outlandish or offensive.
 
Did you sort of just agree with me, Tork?
I'm at a loss for words.
 
Scorpio79 said:
Did you sort of just agree with me, Tork?
I'm at a loss for words.
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I still don't care for the things you said about Vandy, but what was said here wasn't ridiculous. Wrong, perhaps. But in this case, it's open to individual interpretation.
 
Oh, to have had such superior wisdom and judgement as thee, when I myself was a lad of 20 spectacular years. :rolleyes:
 
Scorpio79 said:
Oh, to have had such superior wisdom and judgement as thee, when I myself was a lad of 20 spectacular years. :rolleyes:
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Seriously, though. It's not blatantly out of line to call him a fraud. Hell, that's damn tame compared to the past few days. Not even a JoePa reference of any sort.
 
JonDMiller said:
Scorp, I do think it's silly to use the term fraud to describe Kirk.

If you have verifiable evidence of Kirk actually being a fraud, based on the clinical definitions you've provided, that would be one thing. Yet, I doubt that is the case.

You may feel as though he is a fraud, because he isn't delivering to you what you want/expect. That's not fraudulent. It may be something else that mostly has to do with an individual's expectations and perceptions.

I've been around Kirk a bit over the past 14 years. I've seen how he has impacted people's lives, I've seen how much he gives back and I've literally seen him lift the spirits of one of my childhood friend's two boys weeks after their mother took their own life in a very public and heinous fashion. I've seen him go out of the way to give them a great day and I spent that day right alongside them...and their dad told me that on the way home, they said it was the best day of their lives...when they really needed it. I've received emails from parents of kids, dozens of emails over the past decade plus, that are similar stories and they wanted someone to know about it.

So no, Scorp. Kirk Ferentz isn't a fraud. He's just not giving you the amount of wins you want. It's OK to be irritated by that, but I'll not sit back and let this sort of crap stand unopposed.

As for not cracking on my opinions; when I write something outlandish and totally off base that you disagree with, I have no problem with you calling that opinion silly.
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images
 
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