Hey Deace.....

[Knight78]

if Kirk was named coach when Hayden was, he never would have turned this program around. It was already set up for Kirk when he was hired & I doubt Bump would have let Kirk get away with what he has. Best thing that ever happened to Kirk was Gary Barta, his own guradian angel.

While I agree with most of what you say, I can't agree with the bolded part.... or did you forget how poor the last two years for Hayden? (7-5 in '97 with 4-4 in the Big 10; 3-8 in '98 with 2-6 in the Big 10). Kirk had to build the program from the ground up, just as Hayden did when he got here. In fact, in Hayden's last 7 years he had the same type of record that many here rail on Kirk for.

I'm not condoning the unchanging offensive philosophy, but the cupboard was pretty bare for Kirk when he started.

 

[JonDMiller]

Please don't tell Hawk fans how to react to basically the last decade of Iowa Football. And, yes we DO realize that "KF is the winningest coach in Iowa Football" history.....just how long is the mileage on that tired ass excuse? I know we are talking about two different programs, but I damn sure know that if KF had been the coach at Michigan the last ten years, you would have been turning over tables 4-5 years ago and calling for his head.....especially had Michigan been playing a NAIA non-conference schedule along with a a pathetic Big 10 West. You are doing the SAME exact thing that you just got done ripping Tom Izzo for in your podcast.

And Jon, help is NOT "on the way"....where do you get that crap? If we had any kind of recruiting at WR, we could work around some of the deficiencies at OL. I'm really not sure that our current QB is the answer to be honest, but that will be determined at a much later date. The only time that I'll get the feeling that help is truly "on the way", is when I hear that Barta is no longer AD. Until then, expect more of the same crap.

When you throw a rock into a pack of wild dogs, the one that yelps is the one you intended to hit. Looks like a bullseye!

 

[mopkins]

Internet message boards would have been lonely places in the 80's. Nobody I knew at Iowa had a computer.

And, Hayden wouldn't have taken any flak until at least the 90's.

Even then the only argument would have been the record. KF rightfully gets criticism for an ineffective / predictable / boring offense, a lack of a gameplan, and a general unwillingness to adapt or make changes needed to improve the team.

Ferentz fully deserves criticism for a lack of consistency. NOT a lack of success. Make no mistake...probably 80% of power-5 college football teams would gladly trade their past 15 years for Iowa's. Ferentz graduates players, he sends players to the NFL, he does good things for the state and the community, and he's practically scandal proof. Those things can't be denied or ignored

Where I think the criticism belongs is the lack of versatility or creativeness. Iowa is a juggernaut on defense when they have a dominant D-line. Iowa is great on offense when they have Shonn Greene running behind a bunch of NFL lineman.

The problem is....when they DONT have those things...like this year...they can't seem to figure out what to do. Ferentz still acts and gameplans like they have these stud lines and other teams just laugh and blow them up. That is totally legit criticism and its super frustrating as a fan. Ferentz either doesn't have the capacity or the desire to change things up on defense and blitz more when his line is struggling, or to spread the field out more on offense when teams are stuffing the box.

I just think its ridiculous when people truly believe Iowa would be the next coming of Alabama if only they had another coach. Whats more likely with a new head coach: 1) Iowa becomes Ohio State. 2) Iowa becomes Minnesota

 

[hawkeyes87]

Whats more likely with a new head coach: 1) Iowa becomes Ohio State. 2) Iowa becomes Minnesota

I don't think anybody really expects Alabama, or even Ohio St. But we could be Wisconsin.

To use your OSU / Minny comparison though: after 2009 the Hawks were clearly closer to OSU. Today they're clearly closer to Minny. That's what I'd call trending down.

More importantly / practically, if we replace OSU w/ Wisconsin in that comparison: after 2009 Iowa was clearly above Wisconsin. Now, again, we're closer to Minny.

 

[JonDMiller]

I don't think anybody really expects Alabama, or even Ohio St. But we could be Wisconsin.

To use your OSU / Minny comparison though: after 2009 the Hawks were clearly closer to OSU. Today they're clearly closer to Minny. That's what I'd call trending down.

More importantly / practically, if we replace OSU w/ Wisconsin in that comparison: after 2009 Iowa was clearly above Wisconsin. Now, again, we're closer to Minny.

Numbers matter. Demographics matter. Wisconsin has an instant edge in those things..the state has over 5M people in it, and no Wisconsin State. Iowa has roughly 3M people in it, and another P5 school. So right there, it's already tougher in Iowa City on a purely demographic front. Wisconsin fans are just as passionate as Iowa fans, Madison is a fantastic city, as is Iowa City.

Everyone in the league has facilities. Everyone in the league has money. So I don't assume that Iowa 'should' just be able to be Wisconsin, either. Their margin for error, on sheer numbers, is larger than Iowa...and they have been more consistent. That's not to say Iowa can't approach that or do that, it's just not some turnkey assumption that some people think this is.

 

[trj]

Numbers matter. Demographics matter. Wisconsin has an instant edge in those things..the state has over 5M people in it, and no Wisconsin State. Iowa has roughly 3M people in it, and another P5 school. So right there, it's already tougher in Iowa City on a purely demographic front. Wisconsin fans are just as passionate as Iowa fans, Madison is a fantastic city, as is Iowa City.

Everyone in the league has facilities. Everyone in the league has money. So I don't assume that Iowa 'should' just be able to be Wisconsin, either. Their margin for error, on sheer numbers, is larger than Iowa...and they have been more consistent. That's not to say Iowa can't approach that or do that, it's just not some turnkey assumption that some people think this is.

They aren't getting a bunch kids from Milwaukee to play for them. You know more about recruiting than I do, is Milwaukee a football recruiting hotbed? The kids they get seem like the same kids Iowa gets.

As for the "Wisconsin St." thing. Iowa/ISU are fighting over what? Maybe 3-5 guys a year. Your argument has merit if they were both in the same conference, but they are not. Iowa has their channels they want to recruit, ISU has theirs I don't think they cross paths that much.

 

[OkstHawk]

My wife was born in Stillwater. Went to OSU. We say Go Hawks and Go Pokes in our house. Even put it in our wedding vows, haha. I watched the Iowa State game this year at Eskimo Joes this year.

Went to OSU as well. Favorite past time was heading over to Joes for cheese fries and sodas! March madness there was always fun. Just went back for homecoming -- best homecoming experience in the country bar none.

 

[EstronHawkKing]

Numbers matter. Demographics matter. Wisconsin has an instant edge in those things..the state has over 5M people in it, and no Wisconsin State. Iowa has roughly 3M people in it, and another P5 school. So right there, it's already tougher in Iowa City on a purely demographic front. Wisconsin fans are just as passionate as Iowa fans, Madison is a fantastic city, as is Iowa City.

Everyone in the league has facilities. Everyone in the league has money. So I don't assume that Iowa 'should' just be able to be Wisconsin, either. Their margin for error, on sheer numbers, is larger than Iowa...and they have been more consistent. That's not to say Iowa can't approach that or do that, it's just not some turnkey assumption that some people think this is.

Wisconsin also has a superior AD, Iowa does not!

 

[OkstHawk]

Numbers matter. Demographics matter. Wisconsin has an instant edge in those things..the state has over 5M people in it, and no Wisconsin State. Iowa has roughly 3M people in it, and another P5 school. So right there, it's already tougher in Iowa City on a purely demographic front. Wisconsin fans are just as passionate as Iowa fans, Madison is a fantastic city, as is Iowa City.

Everyone in the league has facilities. Everyone in the league has money. So I don't assume that Iowa 'should' just be able to be Wisconsin, either. Their margin for error, on sheer numbers, is larger than Iowa...and they have been more consistent. That's not to say Iowa can't approach that or do that, it's just not some

Wisconsin also has a superior AD, Iowa does not!

This is the chief reason right here

 

[mopkins]

I don't think anybody really expects Alabama, or even Ohio St. But we could be Wisconsin.

To use your OSU / Minny comparison though: after 2009 the Hawks were clearly closer to OSU. Today they're clearly closer to Minny. That's what I'd call trending down.

More importantly / practically, if we replace OSU w/ Wisconsin in that comparison: after 2009 Iowa was clearly above Wisconsin. Now, again, we're closer to Minny.

Like I said, consistency is an issue with Ferentz

I just think people here don't realize how easy Iowa could change head coaches and become Minnesota, Illinois, Mizzou, or Nebraska. It would be a LOT easier to slide down into those ranks than to climb a rung higher.

 

[deanvogs]

And BTW, the only reason that Hayden is not the winningest coach in Iowa history is that unfortunately age caught up to him

Wrong. Fry struggled his last 10 years more than KF has struggle his last 10 years.

Hayden Fry's last 10 years. 66-49 (57% winning%) . 6.6 Win per year. 43-37-1 (53% winning %) in B1G games. He had 3 seasons of above .500 B1G record. 1 Rose Bowl appearance, 4 years of missing bowl games all together because of a losing record.

Ferentz last 10 years 80-49 (61% winning%) 8 Wins per year. 48-33 (59% winning %) in B1G games. He had 5 seasons of above .500 B1G records. 1 Rose Bowl and 1 Orange bowl appearance. 2 years of missing bowl games because of losing record.

If social media and this site were around for Fry's last 10 years, you would have gone scorched earth on Fry as well.

Oh and before you go all Fry scheduled tough non conference games. Nope, that was during the first 10 years he did that. Fry's last 10 years he ushered in the weak non conference schedules that everyone says KF is the author of. Here is the non con slate his last 10 years:

'89: Oregon, ISU, Tulsa
'90: Cincinatti, ISU (9 B1G games this year)
'91: Hawaii, ISU, Northern Ill
'92: NC State, Miami, ISU
'93: Tulsa, ISU, Northern Ill
'94: Central Michigan, ISU, Oregon
'95: UNI, ISU, New Mexico St.
'96: Arizona, ISU, Tulsa
'97: UNI, Tulsa, ISU
'98: Central Michigan, ISU, Arizona

 

[OkstHawk]

Wrong. Fry struggled his last 10 years more than KF has struggle his last 10 years.

Hayden Fry's last 10 years. 66-49 (57% winning%) . 6.6 Win per year. 43-37-1 (53% winning %) in B1G games. He had 3 seasons of above .500 B1G record. 1 Rose Bowl appearance, 4 years of missing bowl games all together because of a losing record.

Ferentz last 10 years 80-49 (61% winning%) 8 Wins per year. 48-33 (59% winning %) in B1G games. He had 5 seasons of above .500 B1G records. 1 Rose Bowl and 1 Orange bowl appearance. 2 years of missing bowl games because of losing record.

If social media and this site were around for Fry's last 10 years, you would have gone scorched earth on Fry as well.

Oh and before you go all Fry scheduled tough non conference games. Nope, that was during the first 10 years he did that. Fry's last 10 years he ushered in the weak non conference schedules that everyone says KF is the author of. Here is the non con slate his last 10 years:

'89: Oregon, ISU, Tulsa
'90: Cincinatti, ISU (9 B1G games this year)
'91: Hawaii, ISU, Northern Ill
'92: NC State, Miami, ISU
'93: Tulsa, ISU, Northern Ill
'94: Central Michigan, ISU, Oregon
'95: UNI, ISU, New Mexico St.
'96: Arizona, ISU, Tulsa
'97: UNI, Tulsa, ISU
'98: Central Michigan, ISU, Arizona

Two small bones to pick over here. First, getting to a bowl game is much different now than in Frys day -- you only need 6 to get there. Second, you are proving everyone's point about the non conference schedule. In that ten year period in 6 of those seasons the Hawks played two (and in one season 3) power five teams those years. Haven't looked at KFs non con the past ten years but how many years did he play two schools in the power 5? He also only played 2 games in that period against FCS level schools, of which I don't think he lost. How many FCS have been on the schedule in the last 10 years?

 

[deanvogs]

Two small bones to pick over here. First, getting to a bowl game is much different now than in Frys day -- you only need 6 to get there. Second, you are proving everyone's point about the non conference schedule. In that ten year period in 6 of those seasons the Hawks played two (and in one season 3) power five teams those years. Haven't looked at KFs non con the past ten years but how many years did he play two schools in the power 5? He also only played 2 games in that period against FCS level schools, of which I don't think he lost. How many FCS have been on the schedule in the last 10 years?

Fry only missed Bowl games when he had less than a .500 record, just like now. He had 4 seasons under .500 and that is why he missed a Bowl game those years (5-6, 5-7, 5-5-1, and 3-8) Actually Ferentz could have gone to a bowl game in the 2007 season as they were .500, but didn't.

Not sure what you are talking about on the schedule for Fry? Fry played Arizona twice and Oregon twice. He did have the one year he played Miami and NC State. So Fry had 5 years he played 2 P5 teams, only 1/2 the time.

Ferentz did get an extra game each year. So in fairness even if you give Fry 1 extra win each year (10 more wins), he still wouldn't have as high a winning % as KF. Plus Fry still didn't do as well as KF has done in the B1G with the exact same amount of games over each last 10 years (81 B1G games).

 

[cincyhawk]

This my friend is the best post I have read in ages. This board sounds more and more like the Western Iowa Husker fans. Be very careful what you wish for.

Nebraska has a better record than Iowa since entering the B1G.

 

[cincyhawk]

The last 1/3 of the HF era is pretty much revisionist history. Look, the man built modern Iowa football from nothing.No doubt about that. But his last 7 seasons in Iowa City weren't pretty (after his last Rose/Holiday Bowl team left). He went 43-38-1 overall and 26-29-1 in the conference.

His best season in that span was 1996. He went 9-3 (6-2) with a road loss to Tulsa and got blown out at home by Northwestern and the Ohio St game wasn't much better. They were down big and got no closer than 12 in that loss.

Also in that 7 year stretch, Iowa only had one season, 1996, where they finished with a winning conference record. They have 3 seasons during that span with a losing conference record and 3 seasons with .500 records.

Also in the two years prior to the Rose/Holiday bowl seasons Fry's teams were 6-4-3 and 5-6. So basically 3 of Fry's final 11 seasons were pretty good: 1990, 1991, 1996 despite each of those season's having an embarrassing loss/tie. In 2 more, 1988 and 1995, Iowa fielded solid teams that won some games although 1988 was the ultimate kiss your sister season. 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1997, & 1998 were total duds.

Iowa hovers around 7 wins. Always. This is Ferentz over the last decade.
6 6
7 6
9 4
11 2
8 5
7 6
4 8
8 5
7 6
12 2
8 5
4 2

This is Fry's last decade
6 4 3
5 6 0
8 4 0
10 1 1
5 7 0
6 6 0
5 5 1
8 4 0
9 3
7 5
3 8

For most of that time, Fry had fewer games than the current era of college football. Iowa hovered around 6 wins per season.

It looks to me as if Iowa is a .500 football team. Anything above that is just an outlier year. It does not matter who the coach is. The question is do you want better? You probably aren't going to get worse, as Iowa tries to schedule 3 automatic wins to stay the year. So you're a little more than halfway to 7 wins already.

 

[cincyhawk]

How willing? Are you talking, "I have the cash to buy him out" willing?

Do you? What's with all the Marxist salary-envy personal attacks in this thread? What's next? Charle Weiss fitness video series takes? We're already beating on people's gym hottie fantasies too. It's starting to sound like a Jim Rome show in here.

Hi,

My name's CincyHawk, and I have Wisconsin Envy. I envy that they have an offense and a defense. I envy that they win more games than Iowa in basketball and football. I would like to think that a simple change to the power-o based run game with motion out of the tight ends would put this team at that level with the line we have. I don't believe it is a huge change in offensive philosophy. I think not trying it means the coaches are stubborn. I'd also like to see Wadley lined up in space, and some more middle screens and slants against the blitz. I'd like to see us check into the quick slants when there are 8 men in the box, with Fant running one inside slant and Wadley running the other. If we occupy space the Lbs vacate, I think we'll move the ball more consistently. I also think the reason we haven't tried it is because our philosophy is to never change. That's not on the players.

I want improvement and not stagnation, and I don't care how we get it, within the rules of the game. Even Kirk is saying that we are not improving quickly enough. So, let's shake things up.

My criticism of the coaches lies in the fact that, although they do wonderful off the field things for the State of Iowa, what they do on offense for the excellent defensive players they recruit and develop is, to quote Jon, "criminal".

We're 90th in the country on offense. Trying anything else and failing will put us at what, 100th? If you aren't willing to risk change for improvement over that - you just aren't ready for the responsibility that's been handed to you.

Don't mind Deace. He is just salty because the best recruiter in the country can't run an offense without a backup Iowa QB.

 

[cincyhawk]

Ferentz fully deserves criticism for a lack of consistency. NOT a lack of success. Make no mistake...probably 80% of power-5 college football teams would gladly trade their past 15 years for Iowa's. Ferentz graduates players, he sends players to the NFL, he does good things for the state and the community, and he's practically scandal proof. Those things can't be denied or ignored

Where I think the criticism belongs is the lack of versatility or creativeness. Iowa is a juggernaut on defense when they have a dominant D-line. Iowa is great on offense when they have Shonn Greene running behind a bunch of NFL lineman.

The problem is....when they DONT have those things...like this year...they can't seem to figure out what to do. Ferentz still acts and gameplans like they have these stud lines and other teams just laugh and blow them up. That is totally legit criticism and its super frustrating as a fan. Ferentz either doesn't have the capacity or the desire to change things up on defense and blitz more when his line is struggling, or to spread the field out more on offense when teams are stuffing the box.

I just think its ridiculous when people truly believe Iowa would be the next coming of Alabama if only they had another coach. Whats more likely with a new head coach: 1) Iowa becomes Ohio State. 2) Iowa becomes Minnesota

Neither. You don't have any evidence to back that up. Take a fair statistical sampling of coaching changes over the last decade versus wins, and versus losses. Put it in excel, chart it, run regression and tell me the r2 value. If you're right great! But you don't know right now.

 

[BigD]

if Kirk was named coach when Hayden was, he never would have turned this program around. It was already set up for Kirk when he was hired & I doubt Bump would have let Kirk get away with what he has. Best thing that ever happened to Kirk was Gary Barta, his own guradian angel.

Guardian angel??? At a million dollars a year don’t you mean KF’s B!tch or lapdog?

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Wisconsin/Madison is also pretty close to Chicago. They've done a good job at winning battles with ND for kids. I think that whole Chicago area they've taken advantage of while ND has had their struggles the last few yrs. But it's certainly not just that they've got as steady of an AD as you can ask for and they've hardly had any rocking of the boat when they've changed coaches a few times since Bielama left. Hate them or like them you should respect them for that isn't an easy thing to do in this college football landscape.

 

[vork22]

Like I said, consistency is an issue with Ferentz

I just think people here don't realize how easy Iowa could change head coaches and become Minnesota, Illinois, Mizzou, or Nebraska. It would be a LOT easier to slide down into those ranks than to climb a rung higher.

How is Nebraska a slide down when they have won more games than Iowa since joining the conference? Iowa is like that girl that thinks she's hotter than she is. We are Nebraska and are already close to being Minnesota or Missouri. There's no way we backslide if we pay a relevant name in coaching. One thing is for sure we will never even be Wisconsin with the Ferentz clan.