Has Iowa Turned The Corner?

[Northside Hawk]

I believe Fran is a coach who knows how to build the foundation for a winning team. I believe he must be a well organized and competent individual at the administration tasks of running a program. These are pluses.

Fran is an offensive coach. His brand of defense is not designed to be Virginia defense. It is designed to keep an opponent under 75 while we score 80. For whatever reason Fran has struggled to maintain consistency from year to year primarily on the defensive end. It is probably an inevitable trade off of a coach that specializes in the offensive end.

My hope for Fran is, the need to break his tendency of man defense this year and learn and teach the multitudes of Zone defense will embolden Fran to challenge some of his other coaching philosophies. Things like substitutions, use of timeouts, use of set plays. These are in game philosophies that Fran himself can improve on through experience to allow his teams to eek out more wins in what will always be a deep league. My hope is that even veteran coaches can learn and grow.

Yes. Once again, if he takes his 22-49 record from his first eight years in games decided by six points or less and evens it to 36-35 and changes nothing else, that's almost two full wins per year. And would have led to monumental leaps in the conference standings, deeper conference tournament runs, more NCAA appearances, and better seedings.

I can't overemphasize this enough. Without even looking at the conference standings, I will venture a guess that a two game gap is the difference between seventh and twelfth or thirteenth place.

 

[Northside Hawk]

If Davis had been allowed to "recruit" like Raveling did. Or been allowed to run an off the rails program he would of made us into blue bloods. He was hired to clean up the program and make it respectable and he did that with every fiber of his being.

Davis was definitely put out to pasture 5 years too soon, but Alford was the whole bag of chips as a coaching prospect and we went all in on a high potential bet. Hindsight affords us the advantage to measure that bet now as a loss.

What have you heard about how Raveling was able to get Marble and Armstrong out of Michigan, and Gamble and Horton out of Illinois (in one freaking class!!!) Veteran Chicago sportswriters like Rick Telander, Les Grobstein and Terry Boers certainly have their opinions. And not flattering ones at that. Horton would probably go to Kansas or Kentucky today, BJ and Roy probably to Michigan or Michigan State.

I was at Iowa at the time and didn't put two and two together, nor did I care. But history has not been kind to that class. We haven't come close to a similiar one since. Earl, Thompson, Moses, Lookingbill, Skinner was a nice class. Settles, Kingsbury, transfer Woolridge was another one. But not close to what Raveling hauled in.

 

[RobHowe]

I can't stand cherry picking.

Exactly.

“Let’s come up with a timeline to fit my point.”

TD couldn’t get it done anymore

Again. Last four years, two round of 32 and a Sweet 16.

And he would have gotten Collison.

 

[PCHawk]

Exactly.

“Let’s come up with a timeline to fit my point.”

TD couldn’t get it done anymore

Again. Last four years, two round of 32 and a Sweet 16.

And he would have gotten Collison.

Hey Rob, you just came up with a timeline to fit your point.

And come on, that timeline makes perfect sense. Take away the first 2 years of both coaches to get rid of the completely uneven situations they inherited, then go to year 8 because that's how many years Fran has been here. That's not cherry picking. That's saying Davis got Raveling recruits and Fran got Lick recruits. Since those went away, Fran has been on a better trajectory than Davis. Will he still be in 4 more years? We don't know because Fran hasn't had the chance yet.

 

[RobHowe]

Hey Rob, you just came up with a timeline to fit your point.

And come on, that timeline makes perfect sense. Take away the first 2 years of both coaches to get rid of the completely unfair situations they inherited, then go to year 8 because that's how many years Fran has been here. That's not cherry picking. That's saying Davis got Raveling recruits and Fran got Lick recruits. Since those went away, Fran has been on a better trajectory than Davis. Will they still be in 4 more years? We don't know because Fran hasn't had the chance yet.

We're debating two different points.

The reasoning for letting TD go was because he couldn't get the Hawkeyes to the "next level" (not my words). In his final four seasons, he reached the Round of 32 twice and the Sweet 16 once. That was not good enough, so he had to go.

And, again, I'm still waiting for Iowa to each the "next level."

Twenty years later, has that happened yet?

 

[Northside Hawk]

Exactly.

“Let’s come up with a timeline to fit my point.”

TD couldn’t get it done anymore

Again. Last four years, two round of 32 and a Sweet 16.

And he would have gotten Collison.

That was a nice run for Davis at the end. And you can also add a huge win at Kansas to his latter accomplishments.

It was the off the court issues that were starting to concern Bowlsby. I mentioned Kingsbury, Joey Range and Guy Rucker. Their sins weren't egregious by any means, not compared to the mess the Mr. Righteous was about to encounter, but Bowlsby's mind was made up. He dumped Lindsay Vonn in favor of what he thought was Anna Kournikova and ended up with Roseanne Arnold.

 

[PCHawk]

We're debating two different points.

The reasoning for letting TD go was because he couldn't get the Hawkeyes to the "next level" (not my words). In his final four seasons, he reached the Round of 32 twice and the Sweet 16 once. That was not good enough, so he had to go.

And, again, I'm still waiting for Iowa to each the "next level."

Twenty years later, has that happened yet?

I agree with your point. The post you quoted saying Windsor was cherry picking wasn't discussing that point tho. He was discussing a comparison for Davis and Fran's body of work up to this point in their careers. His post in the context of what he was responding to was far from cherry picking.

Also in fairness to the decision to get rid of him, Davis made the sweet 16 after the decision was made. If he had done it before the decision, no way they still get rid of him.

At the time the decision was made, he had 10 years of his own recruits and couldn't reach the sweet 16 (maybe once?). I agreed with the decision when I was young, mostly because we had a "great" hire lined up. Now that I'm older and wiser, I'm not sure what I would want. I know I wouldn't want Fran replaced blindly. But if they could hire the hottest name in young coaches or another national coach of the year, I might be all for it. They both backfired bad, but that doesn't mean it would again.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I agree with your point. The post you quoted saying Windsor was cherry picking wasn't discussing that point tho. He was discussing a comparison for Davis and Fran's body of work up to this point in their careers. His post in the context of what he was responding to was far from cherry picking.

Also in fairness to the decision to get rid of him, Davis made the sweet 16 after the decision was made. If he had done it before the decision, no way they still get rid of him.

At the time the decision was made, he had 10 years of his own recruits and couldn't reach the sweet 16 (maybe once?). I agreed with the decision when I was young, mostly because we had a "great" hire lined up. Now that I'm older and wiser, I'm not sure what I would want. I know I wouldn't want Fran replaced blindly. But if they could hire the hottest name in young coaches or another national coach of the year, I might be all for it. They both backfired bad, but that doesn't mean it would again.

You're correct that Davis made the sweet 16 after the decision was made.

In fact, you could make a pretty good argument that he made the Sweet 16 because the decision was made. Senior night vs Northwestern, also Davis' last game at Carver, was emotional. And I remember Kent McCausland and Ryan Luersman saying that they were going to give their outgoing coach a good long ride.

None of this meant a hill of beans to Bob Bowlsby.

 

[ssckelley]

The downfall of TD was losing Raef LaFrentz, many Hawkeye fans wanted blood after Raef decommitted and went to Kansas.

 

[RobHowe]

We can if-and-but, candy-and-nuts all day long.

My point remains:

I'm still waiting for the "next level" two decades later.

TWO DECADES!

 

[ssckelley]

And he would have gotten Collison.

What makes you say this? Collison was good friends with Hinrich and would have went with him to Iowa State had Tim Floyd not bolted for the Bulls.

 

[Adam]

What have you heard about how Raveling was able to get Marble and Armstrong out of Michigan, and Gamble and Horton out of Illinois (in one freaking class!!!) Veteran Chicago sportswriters like Rick Telander, Les Grobstein and Terry Boers certainly have their opinions. And not flattering ones at that. Horton would probably go to Kansas or Kentucky today, BJ and Roy probably to Michigan or Michigan State.

I was at Iowa at the time and didn't put two and two together, nor did I care. But history has not been kind to that class. We haven't come close to a similiar one since. Earl, Thompson, Moses, Lookingbill, Skinner was a nice class. Settles, Kingsbury, transfer Woolridge was another one. But not close to what Raveling hauled in.

Well If I am to believe Roy for his word, there was likely money, girls and powder involved.

 

[RobHowe]

What makes you say this? Collison was good friends with Hinrich and would have went with him to Iowa State had Tim Floyd not bolted for the Bulls.

Conversations I've had with people I trust.

Based on that, I think Hinrich goes to ISU and Collison to Iowa had there not been coaching changes.

 

[Adam]

Conversations I've had with people I trust.

Based on that, I think Hinrich goes to ISU and Collison to Iowa had there not been coaching changes.

It is entirely possible. It's also possible that had we landed Collison and kept Davis that we wouldn't have landed Reggie Evans. The tea leaves are hard to read, but the overall point stands. Bowlsby put Davis out to pasture too soon in a get rich scheme pinning our hopes on a slick haired Johnny come lately. It didn't work and the program has long paid the price for its betrayal. Maybe our penance has now been paid and we can move on with winning basketball. There is a good chance that Jbo reset the cosmic karmic scale last year by honoring Street.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

As others have pointed out, Davis made the Sweet 16 after the decision not to renew him was made.

If I'm not mistaken, that choice was made after the 1998 season that ended with a first round NIT loss. At that point, Davis had missed the NCAA Tournament 3 years out of 5 (1994-95, 1998). There's another timeline. That's the problem with timelines.. It's pretty easy to cherry pick whatever makes your argument. But it's easy to see why some thought things were starting to slip.

That said, I still think it was a mistake to let him go. Hindsight I guess, but at the time, I think most of us were ok with the decision. Myself included. I feel I've grown wiser in the 20 years since, though.

It's why I've never called for KF's job, and why I was willing to let this basketball season play out with regards to Fran's job, too.

 

[RobHowe]

It is entirely possible. It's also possible that had we landed Collison and kept Davis that we wouldn't have landed Reggie Evans. The tea leaves are hard to read, but the overall point stands. Bowlsby put Davis out to pasture too soon in a get rich scheme pinning our hopes on a slick haired Johnny come lately. It didn't work and the program has long paid the price for its betrayal. Maybe our penance has now been paid and we can move on with winning basketball. There is a good chance that Jbo reset the cosmic karmic scale last year by honoring Street.

I like it.

 

[PCHawk]

We can if-and-but, candy-and-nuts all day long.

My point remains:

I'm still waiting for the "next level" two decades later.

TWO DECADES!

The good news is you only have to wait one more month!

 

[RobHowe]

The good news is you only have to wait one more month!

I'll take it!

 

[Adam]

The good news is you only have to wait one more month!

Are you assuring "next level" results this NCAA tournament?

 

[WindsorHawk]

Exactly.

“Let’s come up with a timeline to fit my point.”

TD couldn’t get it done anymore

Again. Last four years, two round of 32 and a Sweet 16.

And he would have gotten Collison.

Collison was a long time ago. So this is the last post I am ever going to make on the subject. And you obviously have a source that has you convinced Nick was coming to Iowa if Davis was the coach. I know your source isn’t better than mine. So I guess one of us got bad information from the same source...possible I suppose.