Give Gesell The Keys - QCTimes.com

[pmchawk]

can't we all agree Iowa having better offensive stats make for a much more enjoyable game then them trying to have better defensive stats?

It is basically saying Lick ball vs Fran ball.

Lick Ball; slow down, eat up the clock, and try to make your contested shots, play solid D and hope the other team misses, or makes an unforced error. = hope your players have a high enough ceiling to become decent shooters on Offense and hope your style doesn't scare quality players away.

Fran Ball; speed up, take smart shots regardless of the shot clock, attack and get fouled, pressure the ball constantly, force your opponent to make mistakes. Wait for your quality offensive minded players to hunger more for winning, and in crunch time, when offensive skills are close the better defender gets the nod, especially at crunch time.

To me the transition for Fran Ball is easier the Lick ball.

Part of me thinks Barta should still be fired for hiring Lick. However, Fran very well could be a homerun, which would negate the Lick hire.

 

[Foval21]

uptempo teams want to play good defense. their idea of good defense is different than slow tempo teams like uni.

slow tempo - offensively use 30+ sec and get good shot. defensively use 30+ sec and force bad shot.

uptempo - offensively get ball and run, if fastbreak isnt there run offense get quickest good shot. defensively force other team to go too fast and cause bad shots that are missed to fastbreak off of or force turnovers to fastbreak off of.

bad defense is not better for stats. good uptempo defense is better for stats. we should be better at that as we are now more athletic and longer which are the 2 most important things for good uptempo defense.

gesell will have great stats when he is done. he will not come close to 8 assists per game. to do that he would most likely be playing 40 min a game. i feel he will play 25 min a game. 8 assists in 40 min means 1 assist every 5 min. over 25 min that is 5 assists. i feel 5 assists is what he will get. he doesnt have the elite skills of other pgs that we have had but he has a great mix of everything. which means he could be a better all around pg than many that have played at iowa. when i think of all around pgs at iowa (passer, scorer, defend, etc) i think of bj armstrong. he wasnt as great as others at some individual things but he was great all around and made him so difficult to beat.

somebody brought up that bj had 5 assists per game when iowa averaged 98 pts per game. so to think gesell will get 8 is absurd. in fact assists happen less in uptempo than in slow tempo because fastbreaks happen usually with dribbles to finish not passes.

btw how many assists per game did bc average during his jr yr just in b10 games? he led the b10 in assists (i believe) during b10 games and i dont think he was at 6 per game.

 

[PCHawk]

uptempo teams want to play good defense. their idea of good defense is different than slow tempo teams like uni.slow tempo - offensively use 30 sec and get good shot. defensively use 30 sec and force bad shot.uptempo - offensively get ball and run, if fastbreak isnt there run offense get quickest good shot. defensively force other team to go too fast and cause bad shots that are missed to fastbreak off of or force turnovers to fastbreak off of.bad defense is not better for stats. good uptempo defense is better for stats. we should be better at that as we are now more athletic and longer which are the 2 most important things for good uptempo defense.gesell will have great stats when he is done. he will not come close to 8 assists per game. to do that he would most likely be playing 40 min a game. i feel he will play 25 min a game. 8 assists in 40 min means 1 assist every 5 min. over 25 min that is 5 assists. i feel 5 assists is what he will get. he doesnt have the elite skills of other pgs that we have had but he has a great mix of everything. which means he could be a better all around pg than many that have played at iowa. when i think of all around pgs at iowa (passer, scorer, defend, etc) i think of bj armstrong. he wasnt as great as others at some individual things but he was great all around and made him so difficult to beat.somebody brought up that bj had 5 assists per game when iowa averaged 98 pts per game. so to think gesell will get 8 is absurd. in fact assists happen less in uptempo than in slow tempo because fastbreaks happen usually with dribbles to finish not passes.btw how many assists per game did bc average during his jr yr just in b10 games? he led the b10 in assists (i believe) during b10 games and i dont think he was at 6 per game.

 

[PCHawk]

uptempo teams want to play good defense. their idea of good defense is different than slow tempo teams like uni.slow tempo - offensively use 30 sec and get good shot. defensively use 30 sec and force bad shot.uptempo - offensively get ball and run, if fastbreak isnt there run offense get quickest good shot. defensively force other team to go too fast and cause bad shots that are missed to fastbreak off of or force turnovers to fastbreak off of.bad defense is not better for stats. good uptempo defense is better for stats. we should be better at that as we are now more athletic and longer which are the 2 most important things for good uptempo defense.gesell will have great stats when he is done. he will not come close to 8 assists per game. to do that he would most likely be playing 40 min a game. i feel he will play 25 min a game. 8 assists in 40 min means 1 assist every 5 min. over 25 min that is 5 assists. i feel 5 assists is what he will get. he doesnt have the elite skills of other pgs that we have had but he has a great mix of everything. which means he could be a better all around pg than many that have played at iowa. when i think of all around pgs at iowa (passer, scorer, defend, etc) i think of bj armstrong. he wasnt as great as others at some individual things but he was great all around and made him so difficult to beat.somebody brought up that bj had 5 assists per game when iowa averaged 98 pts per game. so to think gesell will get 8 is absurd. in fact assists happen less in uptempo than in slow tempo because fastbreaks happen usually with dribbles to finish not passes.btw how many assists per game did bc average during his jr yr just in b10 games? he led the b10 in assists (i believe) during b10 games and i dont think he was at 6 per game.

I agree with everything you said except where you said bad defense doesn't help offensive stats. the last 2 years our defense giving up so many quick uncontested points was half the reason our offensive stats were so high.

you are right that gesell won't get 8 per game but he will average more assists per game playing for fran then he would have playing for lick

 

[Foval21]

jeff peterson averaged 4.2 assists per game in his last yr at iowa...so the tempo isnt what dictates assists. it is offensive style. fran likes the pg to initiate things as did lick. so the pg gets assists in both. i think gesell will get more in this offense but not wholesale more numbers. i wasnt a fan of the lickliter system but it is a proven system. it is right in someplaces and wrong in others.

fran's system accounts for more scoring opportunities...not necessarily more assist opportunities. as many of the opportunities are fastbreaks. i am not advocating lick's system...i am saying uptempo doesnt automatically equal more assists. fran's style of uptempo does. yet it is not upwards of the 8 assists some idiot said earlier.

 

[pmchawk]

I agree with everything you said except where you said bad defense doesn't help offensive stats. the last 2 years our defense giving up so many quick uncontested points was half the reason our offensive stats were so high.

you are right that gesell won't get 8 per game but he will average more assists per game playing for fran then he would have playing for lick

I disagree, our defensive stats were bad because we pushed the ball so well on offense.

I agree, Gesell will have more apg playing for Fran then he would have for Lick, a big reason why would be he never would have committed to Iowa under Lick.

 

[PCHawk]

jeff peterson averaged 4.2 assists per game in his last yr at iowa...so the tempo isnt what dictates assists. it is offensive style. fran likes the pg to initiate things as did lick. so the pg gets assists in both. i think gesell will get more in this offense but not wholesale more numbers. i wasnt a fan of the lickliter system but it is a proven system. it is right in someplaces and wrong in others.fran's system accounts for more scoring opportunities...not necessarily more assist opportunities. as many of the opportunities are fastbreaks. i am not advocating lick's system...i am saying uptempo doesnt automatically equal more assists. fran's style of uptempo does. yet it is not upwards of the 8 assists some idiot said earlier.

I think there is some truth to what you are saying but with that many extra possessions per game it would be hard not to improve on assist numbers.

 

[Foval21]

jeff peterson averaged 4.2 assists per game in his last yr at iowa...so the tempo isnt what dictates assists. it is offensive style. fran likes the pg to initiate things as did lick. so the pg gets assists in both. i think gesell will get more in this offense but not wholesale more numbers. i wasnt a fan of the lickliter system but it is a proven system. it is right in someplaces and wrong in others.fran's system accounts for more scoring opportunities...not necessarily more assist opportunities. as many of the opportunities are fastbreaks. i am not advocating lick's system...i am saying uptempo doesnt automatically equal more assists. fran's style of uptempo does. yet it is not upwards of the 8 assists some idiot said earlier.

I think there is some truth to what you are saying but with that many extra possessions per game it would be hard not to improve on assist numbers.

i agree but i just bring up bj armstrong who played on as fast tempo team as there can be and he only averaged 5 assists per game. which i feel is a reasonable expectation for gesell. but i wont be surprised if it is more like 4 assists per game either.

 

[OatesStache]

can't we all agree Iowa having better offensive stats make for a much more enjoyable game then them trying to have better defensive stats?

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. For instance, Kentucky was a great offensive and defensive team last year, but they are obviously an extreme example.

But to a larger point, my favorite stat is wins, and style of play honestly doesn't matter to me as long as that stat stays up...

 

[PCHawk]

I agree with everything you said except where you said bad defense doesn't help offensive stats. the last 2 years our defense giving up so many quick uncontested points was half the reason our offensive stats were so high. you are right that gesell won't get 8 per game but he will average more assists per game playing for fran then he would have playing for lick

I disagree, our defensive stats were bad because we pushed the ball so well on offense.I agree, Gesell will have more apg playing for Fran then he would have for Lick, a big reason why would be he never would have committed to Iowa under Lick.

whatever dude people with m's in their name have no idea what they're talking about. seriously tho, our fast paced offense did make our defensive stats look worse. but it goes both ways, our bad defense made our offense look better too.

 

[pmchawk]

wow.. I was being a smart *** with my comment. lol.

Wins aren't my favorite stat, because that is a deceiving stat. The more important stat I think is attendance. The higher the attendance, the games are more enjoyable and it also indicates that you are doing something right or that the future is bright. What is the point of being a fan if the games aren't enjoyable. I couldn't support Lick ball even if we were winning as much as Wisconsin does with that style. It is boring to me.

On another note that is tied to this conversation.

Winning for the sake of Winning isn't good imo and isn't healthy. If you are trying to win just to say you won, you will do anything possible to get ahead, any advantage you can get is worth it regardless of who you hurt in the process. You'll start breaking rules. Winning is meant to be an accomplishment of your best being good enough. The moment you lose site of that is the moment you lost.

 

[9YRPLAN]

as usual people are misremembering how good horner and oliver really were. they were solid players but nothing great.

 

[WildTurkey]

as usual people are misremembering how good horner and oliver really were. they were solid players but nothing great.

your statement almost seems like a contradiction.

 

[PCHawk]

wow.. I was being a smart *** with my comment. lol.Wins aren't my favorite stat, because that is a deceiving stat. The more important stat I think is attendance. The higher the attendance, the games are more enjoyable and it also indicates that you are doing something right or that the future is bright. What is the point of being a fan if the games aren't enjoyable. I couldn't support Lick ball even if we were winning as much as Wisconsin does with that style. It is boring to me.On another note that is tied to this conversation.Winning for the sake of Winning isn't good imo and isn't healthy. If you are trying to win just to say you won, you will do anything possible to get ahead, any advantage you can get is worth it regardless of who you hurt in the process. You'll start breaking rules. Winning is meant to be an accomplishment of your best being good enough. The moment you lose site of that is the moment you lost.

you dont get my m in the name joke? look at our names

 

[OatesStache]

as usual people are misremembering how good horner and oliver really were. they were solid players but nothing great.

I don't think that's the case. One is the career leader in assists and three point shooting, and the other stuck around the NBA for a few seasons.

 

[activebadger]

Thanks for the update men. We are in for a fun ride under Fran. I can't wait for us to run Bo's teams into the ground.

HaHaHa. Seems like Iowa fans have an obsession with Bo Ryan. Why don't you guys focus on actually making the NCAA tournament for once.

Mike Gesell? I give you George Marshall. Marshall has actually already been on campus and gone against great defensive players. If Jordan Taylor, one of the great pg's in the league in several years thinks Marshall is going to be better than him and Devin Harris, then that says a lot.

UW's Marshall gets high praise from peers

 

[Foval21]

wow.. I was being a smart *** with my comment. lol.Wins aren't my favorite stat, because that is a deceiving stat. The more important stat I think is attendance. The higher the attendance, the games are more enjoyable and it also indicates that you are doing something right or that the future is bright. What is the point of being a fan if the games aren't enjoyable. I couldn't support Lick ball even if we were winning as much as Wisconsin does with that style. It is boring to me.On another note that is tied to this conversation.Winning for the sake of Winning isn't good imo and isn't healthy. If you are trying to win just to say you won, you will do anything possible to get ahead, any advantage you can get is worth it regardless of who you hurt in the process. You'll start breaking rules. Winning is meant to be an accomplishment of your best being good enough. The moment you lose site of that is the moment you lost.

you are right attendance over wins...must be a cubs fan.

 

[Hawksd]

HaHaHa. Seems like Iowa fans have an obsession with Bo Ryan. Why don't you guys focus on actually making the NCAA tournament for once.

Mike Gesell? I give you George Marshall. Marshall has actually already been on campus and gone against great defensive players. If Jordan Taylor, one of the great pg's in the league in several years thinks Marshall is going to be better than him and Devin Harris, then that says a lot.

UW's Marshall gets high praise from peers

Lol at your 3 star PG. We're back! You better start focusing on not losing to Iowa.

 

[activebadger]

Lol at your 3 star PG. We're back! You better start focusing on not losing to Iowa.

If the # of recruiting stars mattered then we wouldn't have had 15 straight years of going to the NCAA tournament under our belts and Devin Harris wouldn't be making millions in the NBA.

You're "back"?!? What does that mean? When was Iowa ever seriously good? The Tom Davis years? He never won the conference title and you guys fired him. Are those the glory days?

 

[jacknicholson]

Last season at times one could see the future of Iowa basketball under Fran's guidance. There were times the Big Ten announcers would mention that the Hawks were the best transition team in the B!G. There were many times after an opponents made basket that we had the ball downcourt before they had time to set up their defense. We beat them downcourt quite a few times after they scored.....

Our D will be considerably better than last season with the addition of Adam Woodbury and Kyle Meyer, not to mention the defense skills of Clemmons and Ingram, who are considered defensive specialists. We will be able to implement the full court press if needed without fear of the opponent beating the press and scoring quickly because of the presence of Adam, Kyle and Olaseni. Our half court trap was very good at times both seasons, and will be much better this year.....

I have a feeling we will substitute in waves, constantly having fresh horses in the race the entire game. As the team becomes conditioned to the pace of the game, the opposition will suffer like whipped dogs.....

Fran and staff have a lot of talent to work with, and I am confident that by conference time we will be getting things coordinated very nicely.....

We shall see.....