GARZA VS KAMINSKY

ModebaSan

ModebaSan

Well-Known Member
I started wondering how Luka’s stats compared to 2 time All-American Frank Kaminsky. Winner of the Wooden, Rupp, and Naismith awards. I was surprised by what I found!

Kaminsky ( SR. Season, best stats)
54.7 FG%
58.0 2ptFG%
41.6 3ptFG%
78.0 FT%
8.2 RB avg
2.6 Assists avg
0.8. Steals avg
1.5 Blocks avg
1.7 Fouls avg
1.6 TO avg
18.8 PPG avg

Garza (JR. Season, so far)
55.6 FG%
59.6 2ptFG%
35.6 3ptFG%
63.1 FT%
10.4 RB avg
1.1 Assist avg
0.6 Steals avg
1.6 Blocks avg
2.1 Fouls avg
1.5 TO avg
22.3 PPG avg

Could Garza end up being better than Frank Kaminsky? Can Garza lead us to a Final Four? Is Garza a 1st Team All-American deserving of major national awards? Thoughts?
 
ModebaSan said:
I started wondering how Luka’s stats compared to 2 time All-American Frank Kaminsky. Winner of the Wooden, Rupp, and Naismith awards. I was surprised by what I found!

Kaminsky ( SR. Season, best stats)
54.7 FG%
58.0 2ptFG%
41.6 3ptFG%
78.0 FT%
8.2 RB avg
2.6 Assists avg
0.8. Steals avg
1.5 Blocks avg
1.7 Fouls avg
1.6 TO avg
18.8 PPG avg

Garza (JR. Season, so far)
55.6 FG%
59.6 2ptFG%
35.6 3ptFG%
63.1 FT%
10.4 RB avg
1.1 Assist avg
0.6 Steals avg
1.6 Blocks avg
2.1 Fouls avg
1.5 TO avg
22.3 PPG avg

Could Garza end up being better than Frank Kaminsky? Can Garza lead us to a Final Four? Is Garza a 1st Team All-American deserving of major national awards? Thoughts?
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This year gets him close, if not there. Next year he will be the pre season favorite and a similar season will get him there. He is definitely good enough to build a final 4 team around next year. We will be close to a pre season top 10 team next year.
 
I've been following the comparisons between the 2 players the last couple weeks and I can tell you Luka's advanced stats are for the most part better this year than what Frank posted as a senior. The biggest difference being AST%. Frank (18.4%) was twice the assist man Luka(8.9%) has been so far while having a slightly higher USG%. What that means is Luka shoots more while Frank passed the ball more. Part of it is probably because Frank had a better supporting cast, part is probably because Luka looks to score more, and part is because Frank was simply a better passer up to now at least.

Like I mention in the other thread, the next dimension Luka needs to add to his game is the better ball movement/passing ability. It'll be tough show much of that this year with the injuries and teams doubling/tripling him. Having CJF back now will help with spacing. Next year could be a big year for his draft stock with Bohannon back. If everyone is back and healthy, that team could really be able to space the floor and allow Luka time to make good concise decisions with the ball.
 
Is the Kaminsky comp, the best comp?

Is it a sure thing that Garza even returns next year?
 
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trj said:
Is the Kamisky comp, the best comp?

Is it a sure thing that Garza even returns next year?
Click to expand...
Good questions. They aren't the same type of players even with similar stats. Garza doesn't handle the ball like Kaminsky did and Kaminsky wasn't near the post up back to the basket type that Garza is.

And I hope he is but even if he isn't NBA material necessarily his family being from over seas and all that could be on the table for him maybe. There's good $ to be made over there too so I wouldn't say he's a 100% lock on anything right now..
 
Important to note with these stats that Wisconsin plays a slower style, which means less opportunities for scoring, assists, rebounds, blocks etc. which is why JG brought up some of the % stats I.e assist %, block %, rebound % etc. The stats even after those adjustments are dang close across the board!

The fact that we are even having this discussion is amazing as Kaminsky won the Naismith award that year and is a testament to how good Garza has been.

I would also agree with others that they aren’t ideal player comparison past being centers which can shoot outside shots. One of Kaminsky’s biggest strengths was his quickness at his size and ability to put the ball on the deck, whereas Garza’s biggest strengths are probably his soft touch, motor, and post moves.
 
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Is it a sure thing that Garza even returns next year?[/QUOTE]

That is a great question. How many 1st Team AA return as a rule? I have no idea.

What I do know is EVERY TIME one looks forward to next year with all these guys back...when next year gets here we NEVER EVER, EVER have all these guys back. But, please, please, please let it happen just this one time and I will never ask again.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Important to note with these stats that Wisconsin plays a slower style, which means less opportunities for scoring, assists, rebounds, blocks etc. which is why JG brought up some of the % stats I.e assist %, block %, rebound % etc. The stats even after those adjustments are dang close across the board!

The fact that we are even having this discussion is amazing as Kaminsky won the Naismith award that year and is a testament to how good Garza has been.

I would also agree with others that they aren’t ideal player comparison past being centers which can shoot outside shots. One of Kaminsky’s biggest strength was his quickness at his size and ability to put the ball on the deck, whereas Garza’s biggest strengths are probably his soft touch, motor, and post moves.
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Ah yep, you are right, they are more even now since I last compared the advanced stats across the board. Still pretty insane what Luka has done so far. I'm not really sure on the best college comparison. Best comps I can think of with similar body types and scoring abilities are Nikola Jokic and Marc Gasol but those are NBA level centers.
 
JG10Hawk said:
Ah yep, you are right, they are more even now since I last compared the advanced stats across the board. Still pretty insane what Luka has done so far. I'm not really sure on the best college comparison. Best comps I can think of with similar body types and scoring abilities are Nikola Jokic and Marc Gasol but those are NBA level centers.
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Jokic is an unbelievable passer and plays point center at times. Gasol is an okay comp but really he was a more defensive minded player.

Maybe there just isn’t really a great comp for Luka and that’s part of the reason he’s so successful.

My player comparison would be the low post skillset of Jahlil Okafor, with the ability to step out and shoot the outside shot like a Caleb Swanigan.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Jokic is an unbelievable passer and plays point center at times. Gasol is an okay comp but really he was a more defensive minded player.

Maybe there just isn’t really a great comp for Luka and that’s part of the reason he’s so successful.

My player comparison would be the low post skillset of Jahlil Okafor, with the ability to step out and shoot the outside shot like a Caleb Swanigan.
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That's why I said "scoring abilities". Jokic is the best passing big to probably ever play. I meant his post scoring and ability to face up to go along with having a similar body type as Luka. The passing and ball handling isn't even close lol.

Yes, Gasol is more defensive minded but again I was comparing their scoring abilities. Just didn't feel like pointing it out like I did in the other thread in my lengthy post. :)
 
Garza's only real hole in his game has been free throw shooting. Otherwise, these 2 are very comparable stat wise.
 
JG10Hawk said:
I've been following the comparisons between the 2 players the last couple weeks and I can tell you Luka's advanced stats are for the most part better this year than what Frank posted as a senior. The biggest difference being AST%. Frank (18.4%) was twice the assist man Luka(8.9%) has been so far while having a slightly higher USG%. What that means is Luka shoots more while Frank passed the ball more. Part of it is probably because Frank had a better supporting cast, part is probably because Luka looks to score more, and part is because Frank was simply a better passer up to now at least.

Like I mention in the other thread, the next dimension Luka needs to add to his game is the better ball movement/passing ability. It'll be tough show much of that this year with the injuries and teams doubling/tripling him. Having CJF back now will help with spacing. Next year could be a big year for his draft stock with Bohannon back. If everyone is back and healthy, that team could really be able to space the floor and allow Luka time to make good concise decisions with the ball.
Click to expand...
Part of Kaminski's high assist numbers has to do with the Wisconsin boredom, 15 pass fake offense, which creates more assists and is designed to do so.
 
revkev73 said:
Part of Kaminski's high assist numbers has to do with the Wisconsin boredom, 15 pass fake offense, which creates more assists and is designed to do so.
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Fran's teams do pretty well with assists.

Kaminsky senior year - Wisconsin 504 assists on 1,014 made field goals = assists on less than 50% of their made shots.

Garza junior year - Iowa 308 assists on 479 made field goals = assists on over 64% of made shots so far.

:)
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Good questions. They aren't the same type of players even with similar stats. Garza doesn't handle the ball like Kaminsky did and Kaminsky wasn't near the post up back to the basket type that Garza is.

And I hope he is but even if he isn't NBA material necessarily his family being from over seas and all that could be on the table for him maybe. There's good $ to be made over there too so I wouldn't say he's a 100% lock on anything right now..
Click to expand...

I can’t remember where I heard it, maybe on a podcast, but I heard that Luka’s father wants him to play all four years at Iowa. I think Luka’s dad realizes how hard it is to get into the NBA with the influx of European players lately. Get your degree, go through four years of the B1G wars, then if you are still the big dog in the league, go for that big fat contract. Plus look at what he has coming back. The return of Bohannon, Nunge, and PMac, and a 5 man recruiting class, the Hawks could be a serious national title contender. A deep run in the NCAA’s is some serious street cred.
 
ModebaSan said:
I started wondering how Luka’s stats compared to 2 time All-American Frank Kaminsky. Winner of the Wooden, Rupp, and Naismith awards. I was surprised by what I found!

Kaminsky ( SR. Season, best stats)
54.7 FG%
58.0 2ptFG%
41.6 3ptFG%
78.0 FT%
8.2 RB avg
2.6 Assists avg
0.8. Steals avg
1.5 Blocks avg
1.7 Fouls avg
1.6 TO avg
18.8 PPG avg

Garza (JR. Season, so far)
55.6 FG%
59.6 2ptFG%
35.6 3ptFG%
63.1 FT%
10.4 RB avg
1.1 Assist avg
0.6 Steals avg
1.6 Blocks avg
2.1 Fouls avg
1.5 TO avg
22.3 PPG avg

Could Garza end up being better than Frank Kaminsky? Can Garza lead us to a Final Four? Is Garza a 1st Team All-American deserving of major national awards? Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Nice comparisons.
 
JG10Hawk said:
Fran's teams do pretty well with assists.

Kaminsky senior year - Wisconsin 504 assists on 1,014 made field goals = assists on less than 50% of their made shots.

Garza junior year - Iowa 308 assists on 479 made field goals = assists on over 64% of made shots so far.

:)
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Garza seems much heavier, but I don't remember for sure. I think Kaminksy was a focus, get the ball to him, he can dish, IIRC. Garza, bruiser, wear out the other team, draw fouls. Garza is perhaps less "polished" but he is a laborer with a big motor. It is nice to see his hard work pay off and with 2-3 players deciding to leave Iowa early, there are lots of shots for him as he is "the player." One thing I like about Garza...he seems undaunted if his shot is blocked...he just keeps going at it like a crazed Grizzly Bear. Great to see an Iowa player developing some post moves.
 
revkev73 said:
Garza seems much heavier, but I don't remember for sure. I think Kaminksy was a focus, get the ball to him, he can dish, IIRC. Garza, bruiser, wear out the other team, draw fouls. Garza is perhaps less "polished" but he is a laborer with a big motor. It is nice to see his hard work pay off and with 2-3 players deciding to leave Iowa early, there are lots of shots for him as he is "the player." One thing I like about Garza...he seems undaunted if his shot is blocked...he just keeps going at it like a crazed Grizzly Bear. Great to see an Iowa player developing some post moves.
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No doubt Luka is more of a bruiser than Frank. He's easily got 10+ lbs on him. Frank's a slighter build and an inch taller. Frank was more of a playmaker while Luka is more of a scorer. Nothing wrong with that one bit. Luka even being named in the same breath of what Frank did as a senior is impressive as hell yet alone possibly posting a better season as a junior. I'm going to enjoy this ride for as long as it lasts.
 
Anyone know what Garza did differently in the offseason? Is it mostly maturation? Did someone on the outside work on his fundamentals? CJ and Luka are way beyond what we expect out of a Fran coached player on fundamentals. Something caused this and likely not from within the program based on history. Fundamentals have been a Fran weakness. Weaker than what you'd expect out of a Big team. Joe I would put in that conversation as well.
 
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