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[SteveGarvey1]

Getting tired of falling behind 10-0 or so every game.

Getting tired of Jok having the ball slip out of his hands for a TO every game.

Getting tired of clanking free throws.

Getting tired of the defense regressing, with easy lay-ins and wide open threes from the other team.

Getting tired of making some nobody from the other team look like an All-American, like the man-bun guy last night.

Getting tired of shooting about 28% from 3 every game while the other team shoots around 47%.

But still behind the team. They're starting 4 freshmen and a starter who's a shell of himself.

 

[homes]

I pretty much agree with everything. A couple things tho. Fran doesn't have a rotation because players are taking turns being good. Cook and Pemsl were our 2nd and 3rd best players until a few games ago. Now they are two of the worst. Uhl and Wagner looked like they were about to quit seeing the floor at all. Now they're good. Krinner comes in out of necessity once and looks like he belongs. It's a weird year for sure.

Also as far as sitting Jok and Bohannon goes, they could have easily struggled but still made shots. Especially Bohannon being sick. If he would have made a couple more 3s it would have been a game. I agree about sitting Jok more than Bohannon tho. Bohannon was more of a hindsight because he wasn't making shots. At one point he made a 3, rattled one out, then made one after the whistle that didn't count. Fran probably noticed that. Also the drop off after him is so big I see rolling the dice with him.

Agree. He's trying to find the combination. He wrote it down somewhere, but now he can't remember where he put it, so he keeps spinning the lock seeing if he can come up with it.

Until these guys devote themselves to playing defense, both individual and team, they will struggle, mightily.

 

[Hawknigh]

The only one who seems ready for B1G play is the kid who didn't play hardly at all in the non con schedule and the is Kriener.

Why is it that players seem to play their best when they are new to the "rotation?" Several guys looked good early, but now have dropped off. Perhaps it is just the level of competition has gotten better. But, then Kriener steps in and is playing well in his first games with meaningful minutes. What happens once these guys get in the "rotation?"

 

[uihawk82]

Why is it that players seem to play their best when they are new to the "rotation?" Several guys looked good early, but now have dropped off. Perhaps it is just the level of competition has gotten better. But, then Kriener steps in and is playing well in his first games with meaningful minutes. What happens once these guys get in the "rotation?"

other teams see tape, scout our players, and learn how to plsy against them.

 

[HawkGold]

Jok hurt? Of course. Some has to do with how much he is going to get dogged all game each and every game. It alters your shot when defenses take away your feet (landing) and he's going to have defenders get physical with him. What makes it more difficult is when you don't have quality AND experienced players around him. On that note, when 1 or 2 guys get heavy attention, it frees up others to look better than they are. His injury now allows defenders to concenntrate more on others.

Finke is one of the slowest players in the Big. Morgan is even slower. They combined for 29 points. Youth or not, that is a problem. Finke's shot looks like slow motion in real time. This was not a great team. It was an experienced team.

We have to accept the fact that some of the early success from some of the young players was not realistic, at least for awhile if ever. Jok is the real deal, but being so much above everyone else makes you a target. At some point given his past health, he's likely to pack it in for the next level on a team not likely going anywhere.

 

[HawkGold]

Found this:

http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/...llini-get-passing-grade-against-hawkeyes.html

They weren't impressed with the guard play.

 

[Robowe]

Another thing is the roster makeup. I just don't get what Fran is doing. So we have right now for Bigs next year:

Sr: Uhl
Jr: Wagner, Baer
So: Cook, Pemsl, Kriener
Fr: Garza, Nunge

That is 8 player who can play the 4/5. WTF man, it is like Fran doesn't think there is another 3 spots on the floor to put players at??? At the same time he goes 4 years without bringing in a PG that sticks around??

PG: Bohannon and ??
Wings: Moss, Ellingson, Dailey, Williams and Conner

Sorry, but that is just a horrible overall collection of Guards, taken as a whole. Jordan has limitations, Moss isn't there yet, Ellingson and Williams have shown they aren't B1G starters. Dailey, who knows, but I doubt he is ready, and Conner isn't going to come in and be a savior.

We need to have another PG in the worst way, and no not another Williams experiment, or Conner experiment at PG. Fran has now done this 2 time (Marble and Williams), it ain't working Fran! Marble was serviceable for a short stint, but he thrived on the wing, that is where he should have been all along. Same with Williams, he should have always been a slasher, not a PG. Same is going to happen with Conner if he thinks a 6'5 kid with limited lateral quickness can be a PG when Marble and Williams couldn't, then he is nuts.

Overall the front court can be solid, but we have too many scholarship players (8) for only 2 positions on the floor 4/5 spots. The guard court next year is going to be scary bad the way it stands right now.

Agreed on the roster makeup. It certainly seems unbalanced.

It would be great to get a PG who can penetrate and take the pressure off the other players. Unfortunately, Fran has tried and it hasn't worked out. I don't think Connor is necessarily a savior, but I believe Fran thinks he is a PG like Jordan is a PG. They both have played PG all of their lives (AAU and school).

Quickness and defense should be a priority in the backcourt for this coaching staff if they want to play the style that Fran likes to play.

 

[ibahawkeye]

I agree, but most of what I said has nothing to do with one game (beside Fran playing Jok and Jordan last night more than he should have). We have some glaring weakness as the Guard positions now, and it will become more glaring next year.

In addition to your other post above, I think you are spot on. We appreciate what Fran has done and certainly are willing to forgive a down/rebuilding year.

However, the vision of the program and where Fran is heading is where I'm struggling to follow. I don't know if it's the fact that he has his son coming in that other guards don't want to play here or what the deal is but bringing in both Nunge and Garza when what we really will need are guards, just didn't make a lot of sense.

 

[BILLYBOBSTEXAS]

In addition to your other post above, I think you are spot on. We appreciate what Fran has done and certainly are willing to forgive a down/rebuilding year.

However, the vision of the program and where Fran is heading is where I'm struggling to follow. I don't know if it's the fact that he has his son coming in that other guards don't want to play here or what the deal is but bringing in both Nunge and Garza when what we really will need are guards, just didn't make a lot of sense.

I believe Garza and Nunge are better suited for the 5 than Cook or Pemsl.

 

[deanvogs]

I believe Garza and Nunge are better suited for the 5 than Cook or Pemsl.

Nunge is no 5.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Another thing is the roster makeup. I just don't get what Fran is doing. So we have right now for Bigs next year:

Sr: Uhl
Jr: Wagner, Baer
So: Cook, Pemsl, Kriener
Fr: Garza, Nunge

That is 8 player who can play the 4/5. WTF man, it is like Fran doesn't think there is another 3 spots on the floor to put players at??? At the same time he goes 4 years without bringing in a PG that sticks around??

PG: Bohannon and ??
Wings: Moss, Ellingson, Dailey, Williams and Conner

Sorry, but that is just a horrible overall collection of Guards, taken as a whole. Jordan has limitations, Moss isn't there yet, Ellingson and Williams have shown they aren't B1G starters. Dailey, who knows, but I doubt he is ready, and Conner isn't going to come in and be a savior.

We need to have another PG in the worst way, and no not another Williams experiment, or Conner experiment at PG. Fran has now done this 2 time (Marble and Williams), it ain't working Fran! Marble was serviceable for a short stint, but he thrived on the wing, that is where he should have been all along. Same with Williams, he should have always been a slasher, not a PG. Same is going to happen with Conner if he thinks a 6'5 kid with limited lateral quickness can be a PG when Marble and Williams couldn't, then he is nuts.

Overall the front court can be solid, but we have too many scholarship players (8) for only 2 positions on the floor 4/5 spots. The guard court next year is going to be scary bad the way it stands right now.

Yeah I think Nunge will be more of a big SF Uthoff type of player not really a ball handler either. (So I've heard/hope) But yeah it's easy to see what your saying. One thing that I notice not just last night with JBo being sick and all is that every other team we've played has had their PGs pressuring him almost full court all the time. They know they have a huge quickness/athletic advantage over him and by wearing him down all game long like that he isn't going to be able to be that great late in games if he's playing big mins. He needs help and Williams just isn't it let alone Ellingson...

 

[tksirius]

This is easily the most logical thing you've ever posted. It sucks it took a loss to a bad Illinois team for you to see the light

I love to break the rules...

 

[HawkGold]

Agreed on the roster makeup. It certainly seems unbalanced.

It would be great to get a PG who can penetrate and take the pressure off the other players. Unfortunately, Fran has tried and it hasn't worked out. I don't think Connor is necessarily a savior, but I believe Fran thinks he is a PG like Jordan is a PG. They both have played PG all of their lives (AAU and school).

Quickness and defense should be a priority in the backcourt for this coaching staff if they want to play the style that Fran likes to play.

Conner could prove to be Fran's undoing at Iowa. Not saying Conner doesn't belong. I can see Fran expecting more of him than what he can do. Fran's demeanor will make for interesting distractions. I could see some ugly things coming between the kid, the coach and the wife. Unless he learns to control his emotions.

 

[Robowe]

[

Conner could prove to be Fran's undoing at Iowa. Not saying Conner doesn't belong. I can see Fran expecting more of him than what he can do. Fran's demeanor will make for interesting distractions. I could see some ugly things coming between the kid, the coach and the wife. Unless he learns to control his emotions.

It could be a tough road for both player and coach (and Mom). It will be interesting to watch for sure.

 

[HawkGold]

[


It could be a tough road for both player and coach (and Mom). It will be interesting to watch for sure.

It's hard to coach your own kid at any level. This will have literally "millions" at stake in a giant fish bowl. I won't speak about a minor kid, but both parents have shown an ability to "speak their mind" to each other and others publically. Both show a propensity to let it hang out when upset. I find most coaches over their own kid don't over estimate their ability, but the rub comes between what the parent knows they can do and what they are willing to do. Without a true point guard that is goingt to put the player (s) including JB into difficult situations. Kids are not oft "yes sir" personalities. I'm assuming the kid has gotten to where he is on talent and not name recognition. A coach has to have a keen sense of awareness of what will create a crisis and to a lesser degree the kid has to understand a few things. Again, the parents have shown a propensity to be highly demonstrative if not out right losing control.

Recruiting a true ready pt guard would certainly help. Maybe FM has deliberately not done this......

 

[ChosenChildren]

We are not going to win many more games (if any) without a healthy Jok. They need to sit him down until he is 100% and ready to go

 

[ChosenChildren]

I smell a lot of Cyclone trolling on this thread

 

[Robowe]

We are not going to win many more games (if any) without a healthy Jok. They need to sit him down until he is 100% and ready to go

I would agree that they need a healthy Jok. However, as we have seen with CJ Beathard, it's hard to get a player to admit they are hurting until you see them perform in the game (since they may not be practicing much). We heard Jok was feeling better with a few days between the Maryland and Illinois games, but it was apparent he was not healthy and still not close to 100%.

I believe this is where someone needs to step in and tell the player that it's time to sit for their good and the possible good of the team. When it's the best player (or team leader), that's a very difficult thing to do. Hopefully, he can get back to being healthy, but I think it will be difficult, especially if he continues to play at this point.

 

[HawkGold]

I would agree that they need a healthy Jok. However, as we have seen with CJ Beathard, it's hard to get a player to admit they are hurting until you see them perform in the game (since they may not be practicing much). We heard Jok was feeling better with a few days between the Maryland and Illinois games, but it was apparent he was not healthy and still not close to 100%.

I believe this is where someone needs to step in and tell the player that it's time to sit for their good and the possible good of the team. When it's the best player (or team leader), that's a very difficult thing to do. Hopefully, he can get back to being healthy, but I think it will be difficult, especially if he continues to play at this point.

No, it's on the player. Players play hurt because of coaches, not players. Fran certainly has a better view than we do on TV. Same with KF.

 

[HawkGold]

I smell a lot of Cyclone trolling on this thread

You know that gets old after awhile (Calling things Cyclone trolling). I occasionally go to other forums (not Cyclone though) just to see what fans of opponents are saying. What is interesting is that I don't see fans of other teams posting on opponents sites, but Hawkeye fans do.