Don't Forget Where Iowa Was 3 Seasons Ago

[sportstalent]

I don't disagree about PP. We disagree about Hubbard. It's ok to disagree. I don't think it was just about a 2nd chance. He tried to find someone who could help him get to where he wanted to the quickest with acceptable levels of risk (acceptable in Fran's eyes). Honest people can disagree. In my mind Fran was being just as selfish as Alford. Selfishness is a human trait. Maturity can change that as can situations.

I would hope Fran's situation has changed. If Fran offered Hubbard after things were going well, then I'd characterize it as giving the young man a chance. That implies selflessness. Fran wasn't be selfless as much as selfish. He probably wouldn't do it (offer) again now.

With Hubbard, I think you are off base. College basketball is about winning to keep your job and if Hubbard is half the player some folks thought, I think Iowa would be in a really good position right now.

So are you one that is upset that Hoiberg has gotten ISU to the NCAA building the way he has and is upset that Fran hasn't? Fran took a shot on a guy, coaches do that and it wasn't really a second chance as he had already been at a school prior to Fran recruiting him.

The situation doesn't compare to the PP situation at all. The University allowed Alford to put it in an awkward situation and it completely backfired. I don't think Fran put the University in a bad position whatsoever. Alford mortgaged Iowa basketball for one kid, Fran did not.

 

[ICHAWK]

Hindsight is 20/20 and the fact that Fran is still building in year 3 kinda speaks volumes to just how bad of a state the program was in, I do believe it was the worst program in the Power Six at the time to start from where he did. Year 4 is going to be far less frustrating and with that, I hope to see a tougher non-conference schedule.

I don't think Iowa was the worst Power 6 Program. It was not a good situation but it was not the worst.

 

[sportstalent]

I don't think Iowa was the worst Power 6 Program. It was not a good situation but it was not the worst.

At that time, how many Power Six teams would you have put below Iowa?

 

[ICHAWK]

At that time, how many Power Six teams would you have put below Iowa?

I don't know 6 maybe... Northwestern for sure is still worse and was worse then. NW has zero facilities and Iowa had a practice facility in the plans when Fran was hired.

 

[ILHawk]

With Hubbard, I think you are off base. College basketball is about winning to keep your job and if Hubbard is half the player some folks thought, I think Iowa would be in a really good position right now.

So are you one that is upset that Hoiberg has gotten ISU to the NCAA building the way he has and is upset that Fran hasn't? Fran took a shot on a guy, coaches do that and it wasn't really a second chance as he had already been at a school prior to Fran recruiting him. The situation doesn't compare to the PP situation at all. The University allowed Alford to put it in an awkward situation and it completely backfired. I don't think Fran put the University in a bad position whatsoever. Alford mortgaged Iowa basketball for one kid, Fran did not.

I don't pay attention to ISU. About Fran, had Hubbard stayed and it didn't work out....badly....your coining comments would be different. IC is just not the place to take those chances and one of the reasons why you likely detect I'm not sold on Fran. I judge the program based on effort, on court decisions, integrity, quality on and off court of individuals and on court presence of coaches and players. Wins are important, but wins without the others aren't very meaningful.

Fran hasn't proven himself in these areas.

The Hawks don't seem to have fire.
Throwing chairs and kicking tables doesn't impress me.

The situations between Hubbard and PP do compare, you are just being a hope filled fan. Thankfully no foul, no harm.

 

[sportstalent]

I don't pay attention to ISU. About Fran, had Hubbard stayed and it didn't work out....badly....your coining comments would be different. IC is just not the place to take those chances and one of the reasons why you likely detect I'm not sold on Fran. I judge the program based on effort, on court decisions, integrity, quality on and off court of individuals and on court presence of coaches and players. Wins are important, but wins without the others aren't very meaningful.

Fran hasn't proven himself in these areas.

The Hawks don't seem to have fire.
Throwing chairs and kicking tables doesn't impress me.

The situations between Hubbard and PP do compare, you are just being a hope filled fan. Thankfully no foul, no harm.

Iowa basketball failed at many of these things after Davis and before Fran.

Fran has restored many of those things to Iowa and the incident with the chair is overblown, the kicking...the first time I saw the picture here was the first I had seen or heard of it. He has done nothing to make me think he that is isn't 100% committed to Iowa basketball being successful on and off the court.

Since Davis was ousted and before Fran took over, every offseason was about who left, got arrested or was declared academically ineligible...none of those things have happened since Fran took over.

 

[sportstalent]

I don't know 6 maybe... Northwestern for sure is still worse and was worse then. NW has zero facilities and Iowa had a practice facility in the plans when Fran was hired.

NW had NCAA tourney hopes, but injuries derailed those, specifically Koble.

It isn't about facilities, it is about what was there, players and the state of the program. Iowa had lost 14 or 16 players in the three years prior to Fran getting there and as we all know it wasn't because of graduation.

You might say Seton Hall or Providence, maybe. You may say USC, Arizona State, Oregon State, Wake Forest and a few others, but realistically, Iowa had nothing going their way period when Fran took over, just as the aforementioned programs.

It was a toxic situation that he walked into, but from Day 1 Fran has wanted to be at Iowa, it isn't just another step for him, he wants to be at Iowa, that is a huge deal. Nobody wanted to be at Iowa, think about all the coaches that said no.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I don't pay attention to ISU. About Fran, had Hubbard stayed and it didn't work out....badly....your coining comments would be different. IC is just not the place to take those chances and one of the reasons why you likely detect I'm not sold on Fran. I judge the program based on effort, on court decisions, integrity, quality on and off court of individuals and on court presence of coaches and players. Wins are important, but wins without the others aren't very meaningful.

Fran hasn't proven himself in these areas.

The Hawks don't seem to have fire.
Throwing chairs and kicking tables doesn't impress me.

The situations between Hubbard and PP do compare, you are just being a hope filled fan. Thankfully no foul, no harm.

I get what you're saying, but as a sports fan, "those other things" you mention also are not very meaningful without the wins either, IMO. I really have no interest in watching opposing teams mop the floor with our Hawks just because we "do it the right way".

In a perfect world, we can win AND do it the right way, but I have serious doubts if, IN REALITY, programs like Iowa and ISU can really do much more than make the NCAA Tournament and get bounced in the second round by a #1 seed, unless they push the envelope a bit.

I have no issue whatsoever with the way Fred Hoiberg has built that program over there in Ames. He did what it took to get some talent infused into that program quickly and get the program on its feet. Now that he has something going a little bit, he may be able to get more 4-year players without baggage.

On the same taken, I have no problem with Fran taking a chance on Hubbard, whose crimes were several years in his past, and it's not a rapist we were talking about, either. It didn't happen to work out, but hey, Iowa severely needed the talent so I felt (and still do) that it was worth a shot. That situation is a far cry from more or less turning a blind eye to serious crimes that were just committed by someone on your team. No, not really all that comparable.

 

[Hawkstrat]

The amount of time passed between incident and second chance absolutely matters. Pierre Pierce was basically forced to redshirt a season, on the other hand, Hubbard paid his debt to society, then led a fairly clean 5 years- I think he was caught driving without a license.

Also, this IlHawk is basing his entire argument around a blind assumption. That Fran offered Hubbard out of desperation, and wouldn't do the same today. It's unverifiable and dumb.

 

[ILHawk]

The amount of time passed between incident and second chance absolutely matters. Pierre Pierce was basically forced to redshirt a season, on the other hand, Hubbard paid his debt to society, then led a fairly clean 5 years- I think he was caught driving without a license.

Also, this IlHawk is basing his entire argument around a blind assumption. That Fran offered Hubbard out of desperation, and wouldn't do the same today. It's unverifiable and dumb.

I wouldn't expect you to be able to post without using brilliant words like dumb.

I think you are missing something on your definition of "fairly clean". Btw, are you fairly or partially intelligent? Notice, I left out fully.

Yes it was desperation. Hawks are still missing that mature 6'3" player.

 

[tm3308]

I don't pay attention to ISU. About Fran, had Hubbard stayed and it didn't work out....badly....your coining comments would be different. IC is just not the place to take those chances and one of the reasons why you likely detect I'm not sold on Fran. I judge the program based on effort, on court decisions, integrity, quality on and off court of individuals and on court presence of coaches and players. Wins are important, but wins without the others aren't very meaningful.

Fran hasn't proven himself in these areas.

The Hawks don't seem to have fire.
Throwing chairs and kicking tables doesn't impress me.

The situations between Hubbard and PP do compare, you are just being a hope filled fan. Thankfully no foul, no harm.

Hubbard paid his debt to society and kept his nose clean for several years before Fran ever even considered bringing him in. Pierce sat out part of a season and was welcomed back with open arms by Alford. Not the same thing at all.

As for the "other things" you describe, Fran has most definitely proven himself solid in most of those areas. Kids aren't getting in trouble, they're keeping their grades up. Lots of high-character guys on the roster right now. They've played hard this year, just get too tight and concerned about making mistakes at times.

Of the criteria you listed, literally the ONLY ones Fran can be reasonably questioned on are all directly basketball(winning) related. Maybe that's because nobody really cares about doing things the right way if you're not winning. And winning the "right way" in this day and age is pretty near impossible.

 

[theboat]

I wouldn't expect you to be able to post without using brilliant words like dumb.

I think you are missing something on your definition of "fairly clean". Btw, are you fairly or partially intelligent? Notice, I left out fully.

Yes it was desperation. Hawks are still missing that mature 6'3" player.

Why are you here?

 

[Hawkstrat]

I wouldn't expect you to be able to post without using brilliant words like dumb.

I think you are missing something on your definition of "fairly clean". Btw, are you fairly or partially intelligent? Notice, I left out fully.

Yes it was desperation. Hawks are still missing that mature 6'3" player.

I feel like you are trying to insult me, but can't communicate well enough to make it sting.

 

[aaronzuriel]

In Lick's last season, we finished 10-22 and 4-14 in the conference. We were the Big Ten's worst team. Fan interest had reached an all-time low and attendance at Carver was awful.

This season at this point only 3 years later, Iowa is 17-10 under Fran and has a legitimate shot at winning at least 20 games this year, and should play in the post-season barring a complete collapse. Fran is doing this with 3 freshmen getting significant playing time, and all but one of the top players returning next year. Carver is full again and we are a very difficult team to defeat there. Our road record is only 2-7, but that shouldn't surprise anybody with the level of inexperience we have playing 3 freshmen.

This is a process. Iowa is making significant progress this year. I truly believe the future is bright under this coach.

I'm not giving up on the NCAA, either. Win the next 4 and we're in. Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No.

Actually we all have forgotten where Iowa BB was 3 years ago. That's the only healthy way to live your life... forget about the pain and suffering and losses... enjoy the wins and the pleasure and the happiness.

The key during these times is to really enjoy how well this team can play and how close they have come. They will get better, play better and the BB gods will work the odds and over the next month and years to come the hawkeys will cash in many, many last second, last minute and overtime wins.

 

[PCHawk]

I feel like you are trying to insult me, but can't communicate well enough to make it sting.

I think he called you dumb. Right after getting on you for calling him dumb.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Happy that next year these type of post will have little to no meaning. It really is time to move on folks. Fran has been Iowa's coach 3 years next month. No excuses next year fella's NONE!!

Fran is doing really good things with player development and recruiting. Building this program the right way and I love it. My biggest concern with Fran is how he manages the actual game (especially the tight ones) you know it doesn't hurt to call a timeout and talk to the players and get on the same page. IMO that needs some cleaning up.

 

[activebadger]

College basketball is very different from building a program up in college football. I don't think anyone should be required to turn around a down program overnight in basketball but it doesn't take nearly as long as football. Football you need at least 5 years because you have to get a class and then get the players developed physically and adapt them to your system. There are examples all over the country of new hoops coaches that came in and turned a program around in a year or two.

Players in basketball are more ready to contribute at an early age.

 

[PCHawk]

Happy that next year these type of post will have little to no meaning. It really is time to move on folks. Fran has been Iowa's coach 3 years next month. No excuses next year fella's NONE!!

Fran is doing really good things with player development and recruiting. Building this program the right way and I love it. My biggest concern with Fran is how he manages the actual game (especially the tight ones) you know it doesn't hurt to call a timeout and talk to the players and get on the same page. IMO that needs some cleaning up.

Where we were 3 years ago is becoming less and less relevant. What is relevant is that we have improved every year from where we were the last. Not only that but all 3 years we have become noticeably better as the year went on. I know some might argue that after blowing a big lead to Nebraska but that was more due to becoming complacent after getting a big lead. It says a lot when you lose your best player and your only true point guard and still have a better team the next year.

Fran might not be a great game day coach (if he's not he will fit in well with kirk) but he has already proved he is a very good salesman and a really hard worker. Those are 2 very important qualities when coaching at Iowa.

 

[activebadger]

I don't necessarily prefer Hoiberg's style (recruiting juco's/transfers) but there isn't anything wrong with it and it's certainly worked for him. Larry Brown is doing something similar at SMU.

 

[activebadger]

Where we were 3 years ago is becoming less and less relevant. What is relevant is that we have improved every year from where we were the last. Not only that but all 3 years we have become noticeably better as the year went on. I know some might argue that after blowing a big lead to Nebraska but that was more due to becoming complacent after getting a big lead. It says a lot when you lose your best player and your only true point guard and still have a better team the next year.

Fran might not be a great game day coach (if he's not he will fit in well with kirk) but he has already proved he is a very good salesman and a really hard worker. Those are 2 very important qualities when coaching at Iowa.

Iowa's record may be better but you could argue that Iowa had better wins LAST year compared to this year. Minnesota 2x's, Wisconsin 2x's, are better than what's on the resume of the 2012-2013 unit.