Don't Expect Any Protests During National Anthem from Hawkeyes

[DDThompson]

The USA's sins aren't unique to the USA nor as great as some in this thread imagine. And I believe those folks discount the virtues of the USA as not worthy of pride. Classic glass half full/empty. Is America a nation of intolerance? Or a nation that has profoundly changed the course of history (2 world wars in the last century for example) in a positive way? I once asked someone who resented the USA for it's wealth how he would solve his issue. And he responded he would make everyone equal. I reminded him everywhere that has been tried it has resulted in equality of misery, not equality of happiness. I'm not Tiger Woods equal in Golf. And I don't want to live in a world where the government can mandate that people lie to me and say I am, just to create a false sense of accomplishment thru phony esteem-building.

Every cop who has ever pulled me over has written me a ticket. And the 5 times I have been in the car when a woman was pulled over, not once was a ticket written. Does that mean I think cops give women more leeway than men? Yes. Does that make me hate them to the point that I counsel others to disobey the law and show admiration toward lawbreakers? No.

Well said.

 

[trj]

I won't presume to know what most on this board already believe.

And you won't take a knee to his view point on soap. Good for you. I also doubt he was debating for an audience or props just as I will assume those that have been debating him weren't doing it for their audience.

You are speculating. It makes you no different from me. I get it, what he says sounds great and it is easy to gravitate toward. yeah, I am pretty sure he believes what he believes, but taking on HawkGold is not taking on some big stance.

 

[DDThompson]

You are speculating. It makes you no different from me. I get it, what he says sounds great and it is easy to gravitate toward. yeah, I am pretty sure he believes what he believes, but taking on HawkGold is not taking on some big stance.

What am I speculating about?

Certainly not about what most on this board believe.

About them arguing to/for an audience? Yeah, I guess. Easily solved. Just ask them if they're arguing to get a bunch of likes from their audience. On this subject? LOL.

And I can't tell if your comment on taking on Hawkgold is ripping on PCHawk, Hawkgold, or both.

 

[trj]

What am I speculating about?

Certainly not about what most on this board believe.

About them arguing to/for an audience? Yeah, I guess. Easily solved. Just ask them if they're arguing to get a bunch of likes from their audience. On this subject? LOL.

And I can't tell if your comment on taking on Hawkgold is ripping on PCHawk, Hawkgold, or both.

So how do you know that race and emotion didn't dictate his argument? Why? Because it sounds good? Because it sounds like the right answer?

 

[tksirius]

This thread.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Since when is what a religious view?

the idea that "society" is inherently flawed because people are inherently flawed. Maybe I misunderstood your post.

I think that's a pretty reasonable framework from which to view humanity. We're all striving to "figure it out"...and master ourselves. Everyone makes their mistakes has their lessons to learn and grow from.

 

[DDThompson]

So how do you know that race and emotion didn't dictate his argument? Why? Because it sounds good? Because it sounds like the right answer?

So how do you know race and emotionalism did dictate his argument? Why? Because it sounds good? Because it sounds like the right answer?

And I didn't say 'emotion'. I said 'emotionalism.'

 

[trj]

So how do you know race and emotionalism did dictate his argument? Why? Because it sounds good? Because it sounds like the right answer?

And I didn't say 'emotion'. I said 'emotionalism.'

Agree to disagree. We can does this all night. I just see it differently. If it makes me a race baiting pimp so be it.

 

[DDThompson]

the idea that "society" is inherently flawed because people are inherently flawed. Maybe I misunderstood your post.

No. I don't think you misunderstood. I saw some generalities in my having fun with Josh so didn't want to assume what you were asking about.

Christianity has always maintained that individuals are flawed ("sin" in Scripture). Flawed individuals means a flawed world.

So I agree with you that it is a reasonable way to look at human beings.

We're all striving to "figure it out"...and master ourselves. Everyone makes their mistakes has their lessons to learn and grow from.

I would agree with you here .... mostly. Most people just want to live their lives and not damage anyone else intentionally. There are a lot of people who don't.

But we are all flawed.

That's why, of course, there is government and cops.

 

[DDThompson]

Agree to disagree. We can does this all night. I just see it differently. If it makes me a race baiting pimp so be it.

Oh, so that's it. You're proving my point about communicating but truthfully, I didn't have you in mind when I said that. Sorry.

 

[PCHawk]

I am arguing towards a crowd. Towards the race bating crowd. I think they are delaying the progress of letting racism die out. But I also think they mean well but just see things the wrong way. Because of that, they are worth arguing with because its easier to make them see the light than it is a racist. For the most part, racists are a lost cause. They aren't changing their minds so it's pointless to try.

The good news is, I think the percentage of racist people get lower with every generation. The only probable way to end racism is to let them slowly die with each generation and hope their kids end up in the right crowd so they don't take up their loser parent's ways. If the "race baiters" keep preaching how terrible white people are, it will take a lot more generations for the hate to die. Either that or the over corrections will get so bad, white people will end up being the suppressed ones.

 

[PCHawk]

It’ll all be over soon...

Can someone tell me what this tweet says please?

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Can someone tell me what this tweet says please?

Yellowstone super volcano will end us all.

 

[DDThompson]

Can someone tell me what this tweet says please?

The article has a lot of "may"s and "if"s and "it's possible"s. Basically the new news is there is evidence that Yellowstone took decades to heat up rather than centuries.

 

[PCHawk]

Thanks guys. Turns out our country is going to shit after all.

 

[DDThompson]

They still have no idea when. It'll just be "faster" with less time to prepare.

 

[HawkGold]

Hold on here. You can't take me serious because I called you an arrogant asshole, but you can call/insinuate that PC is a racist, whether he believe it or not?



Once again you show your complete and total fucking arrogance. You act like my opinion can't count because I call you what you are, an arrogant asshole, but you at the same time can call another on this board a racist because his views are different than yours.

I said the comment could be construed as that, but you went to your normal way of arguing.

Let me explain it a couple of different ways. The word Shame is the word to use here.

There are 2 types of shame. One is shame when we've done something wrong and we know it. It's deserved. The other is when we have shame due to something we didn't do or something someone that was done to us for no real good reason. It is the latter I'm referring to.

Take a kid who is bullied or beyond that, harmed because he is small and immature due to development. Say the 90 pound freshman. The kid will feel shame and it's not his fault.

The same things happen to kids who have suffered abuse at the hands of an adult. They as an adult can't shake the shame. Sometimes they stuff the shame and it comes out as anger (and it will) and results in broken relationships, drug abuse and so on. Or they just live in shame, sometimes with destructive behaviors and other times just silently living in shame.

That shame is the underlying issue in racism. Being called out because of no other reason other than skin color. Ever been pulled over in a random sobriety check? It's kind of a bit aggravating. especially if you are in a hurry.. Imagine being pulled over in a sobriety check numerous times and the officer going thoroughly going thru your car trying to find something. What if it happens over and over again. I was once pulled over in Eastern Europe. The officer heard me get into the car and speak in English. As I drove around the block he stopped me. It was for no other reason other than he heard me speak English and he though he'd get a good bribe. To make things worse, it was early winter and in the rural areas you can't buy windshield wiper fluid. I bought something readily available in the former USSR and widely available and very cheap. The car smelled like a mobile still. That was kind of funny, but imagine being targeted for being of different skin color.

The football player last year, we (assuming most on hear are typical Iowan's) we tend to think, "Oh the black kid really represented himself well, good job. I've all of your skin would act that way...., there'd be no problems.". The kid likely walked away and could say, "I'm a big black man and I was targeted for no other reason." There is a good chance he walked away wishing he wasn't black or be big, black and targeted." He also now knows what it is like to have a deadly situation with the police. When one side has a gun and it is aimed in your direction, it IS a deadly situation FOR one person in that case.

Imagine the suspect being wanted was like me, Blond Hair and Blue eyes and male. I doubt the police would stop every blond hair blue eyed male, though it would be a relatively small portion of the population. I wouldn't like it one bit if a gun were out and aimed at me especially. It would make most of us angry. We might laugh a bit in nervousness, but it would be unnerving. Supposed you were blond and blue eyes and it was done in front of your kids or friends? Humiliating. It would cause shame.

Those commercials are wrong. If you already have shame/anxiety about skin, of course you'd react to it. The same company that put out the other 2 commercials which are very blatant put out the other. They could have done Black to white first, but they chose not to. What was the point of the commercial anyway? It was not done in a vacuum. It likely was done intentionally.

Another common mistake that "normal Iowan's" do is to say that Black's need to call out their own. Go back to the Blond/Blue illustration. Would you say to me, "Gold, you nee to hold your own kind accountable when they do wrong. You need to call out Blond/Blue's". Are you kidding me?

I might be more sensitive about this as I have adopted kids who are in some sense minorities. They actually get treated poorly at school as they don't measure up to the standards by other kids and sometimes adults. One is badly scarred on the face and that child faces discrimination every day from adults and kids. "What happened to you honey, were you in a wreck?" gets said by strangers a lot.

What would you do if your daughter came home with a Black boyfriend? If you are from a small town, how do you react when you see a black person walking down the street? We can say what we think is the right thing to say, but what goes on deep within your head? It's ingrained. Racism is alive and well in this nation. I support the efforts in the NFL to bring it to the forefront no matter how uncomfortable it makes us.

 

[PCHawk]

I said the comment could be construed as that, but you went to your normal way of arguing.

Let me explain it a couple of different ways. The word Shame is the word to use here.

There are 2 types of shame. One is shame when we've done something wrong and we know it. It's deserved. The other is when we have shame due to something we didn't do or something someone that was done to us for no real good reason. It is the latter I'm referring to.

Take a kid who is bullied or beyond that, harmed because he is small and immature due to development. Say the 90 pound freshman. The kid will feel shame and it's not his fault.

The same things happen to kids who have suffered abuse at the hands of an adult. They as an adult can't shake the shame. Sometimes they stuff the shame and it comes out as anger (and it will) and results in broken relationships, drug abuse and so on. Or they just live in shame, sometimes with destructive behaviors and other times just silently living in shame.

That shame is the underlying issue in racism. Being called out because of no other reason other than skin color. Ever been pulled over in a random sobriety check? It's kind of a bit aggravating. especially if you are in a hurry.. Imagine being pulled over in a sobriety check numerous times and the officer going thoroughly going thru your car trying to find something. What if it happens over and over again. I was once pulled over in Eastern Europe. The officer heard me get into the car and speak in English. As I drove around the block he stopped me. It was for no other reason other than he heard me speak English and he though he'd get a good bribe. To make things worse, it was early winter and in the rural areas you can't buy windshield wiper fluid. I bought something readily available in the former USSR and widely available and very cheap. The car smelled like a mobile still. That was kind of funny, but imagine being targeted for being of different skin color.

The football player last year, we (assuming most on hear are typical Iowan's) we tend to think, "Oh the black kid really represented himself well, good job. I've all of your skin would act that way...., there'd be no problems.". The kid likely walked away and could say, "I'm a big black man and I was targeted for no other reason." There is a good chance he walked away wishing he wasn't black or be big, black and targeted." He also now knows what it is like to have a deadly situation with the police. When one side has a gun and it is aimed in your direction, it IS a deadly situation FOR one person in that case.

Imagine the suspect being wanted was like me, Blond Hair and Blue eyes and male. I doubt the police would stop every blond hair blue eyed male, though it would be a relatively small portion of the population. I wouldn't like it one bit if a gun were out and aimed at me especially. It would make most of us angry. We might laugh a bit in nervousness, but it would be unnerving. Supposed you were blond and blue eyes and it was done in front of your kids or friends? Humiliating. It would cause shame.

Those commercials are wrong. If you already have shame/anxiety about skin, of course you'd react to it. The same company that put out the other 2 commercials which are very blatant put out the other. They could have done Black to white first, but they chose not to. What was the point of the commercial anyway? It was not done in a vacuum. It likely was done intentionally.

Another common mistake that "normal Iowan's" do is to say that Black's need to call out their own. Go back to the Blond/Blue illustration. Would you say to me, "Gold, you nee to hold your own kind accountable when they do wrong. You need to call out Blond/Blue's". Are you kidding me?

I might be more sensitive about this as I have adopted kids who are in some sense minorities. They actually get treated poorly at school as they don't measure up to the standards by other kids and sometimes adults. One is badly scarred on the face and that child faces discrimination every day from adults and kids. "What happened to you honey, were you in a wreck?" gets said by strangers a lot.

What would you do if your daughter came home with a Black boyfriend? If you are from a small town, how do you react when you see a black person walking down the street? We can say what we think is the right thing to say, but what goes on deep within your head? It's ingrained. Racism is alive and well in this nation. I support the efforts in the NFL to bring it to the forefront no matter how uncomfortable it makes us.

There is a lot to respond to in this but I'll start with what you said at the end. Taking a knee during the national anthem isn't about killing racism. It's about getting one race to quit being racist towards the other. If it were about uniting all races it would be a lot better.

Also in regards to your kids getting treated poorly. Kids are mean. That's one thing I will preach to my kids. Don't be mean to other kids.

The other thing to teach them is to be confident in who they are. I think that's a big problem with the black culture. Some are raised with a woe is me attitude. You don't cringe when you hear someone say Jew. Do you know why? Because Jewish people don't make a big deal of it. I would say they had it pretty bad in their history but they don't have a woe is me attitude. Red heads sure don't care if you say ginger. White people don't care about cracker. But you have to say "the N word" because you cringe if you actually say it. The only difference between that word and any other derogatory term is how the black community responds to it. You said they aren't comfortable in their own skin? I say they should be because being black is cool in a lot of ways. Be proud of who you are and no one can ever offend you.

 

[tksirius]

There is a lot to respond to in this but I'll start with what you said at the end. Taking a knee during the national anthem isn't about killing racism. It's about getting one race to quit being racist towards the other. If it were about uniting all races it would be a lot better.

Also in regards to your kids getting treated poorly. Kids are mean. That's one thing I will preach to my kids. Don't be mean to other kids.

The other thing to teach them is to be confident in who they are. I think that's a big problem with the black culture. Some are raised with a woe is me attitude. You don't cringe when you hear someone say Jew. Do you know why? Because Jewish people don't make a big deal of it. I would say they had it pretty bad in their history but they don't have a woe is me attitude. Red heads sure don't care if you say ginger. White people don't care about cracker. But you have to say "the N word" because you cringe if you actually say it. The only difference between that word and any other derogatory term is how the black community responds to it. You said they aren't comfortable in their own skin? I say they should be because being black is cool in a lot of ways. Be proud of who you are and no one can ever offend you.

Wow!

 

[PCHawk]

Wow!

That good huh?