DOG POUND

[NikeHawk21]

I've also been in the camp that his last name is a big reason for his ranking. But InGoodCo has a point. Does anyone really care about the Fran McCaffery name? Are sons of coaches with average talent normally bumped to top 50 status? I really dont know but i doubt it. I would still say it helps his rating a little. But you have to question how much. The over rated kids are the ones who can dunk really well but can't really play basketball.

It’s a valid point and tough to say. Maybe he’s overrated because he’s a coaches son and is a really good dunker for his age?

Here’s how I evaluate Pat (based on items I gather from the internet) and relative to a 6’7 wing / forward player:

Strength: well below average
Athleticism: average to above average
Outside shooting: below average
Basketball skills (handles/passing/hand/footwork): above average

Looking at the above on paper doesn’t scream top 50 recruit to me personally. He certainly has potential if he develops his strength, athleticism, and outside shot.

 

[SheagleHawk]

That was after his Freshman year, he fell like a rock even on ESPN - I bet they thought about just keeping him at 25 because of Fran tho

Nah, more likely he looked like Lebron his FR year and then just completely sucked after that.

 

[tweeterhawk]

No, you defended him over and over. Like I said, sports isn't your thing. Stick to music.

Sheet music?

 

[mopkins]

Rivals has Patrick at #31, 247 has him at #35, ESPN has him at #33. If you think that all 3 recruiting services got together in a secret meeting and decided to all throw Patrick into the top 35 just because his dad is a coach...you are just really f*cking stupid. Now, they could all be wrong...no doubt about it...but to think Fran "got to" 3 different recruiting services who are all competing with each other for the most reliable information...is just retarded.

What concerns me about Patrick is the dude is the same weight as I was in high school, but he's 5 inches taller. Fran can afford food, he needs to shove it down his throat.

 

[InGoodCo]

Sheet music?

I'm no good at that either. I don't know why TK be hating.

 

[Knight78]

There is one kid on that list that is on this one: https://www.usab.com/mens/u17/roster.aspx

Nice honor anyway.

Wish Fran would upcoming get some great players not his son. Can't help but think that the relationship doesn't help ranking as they figure he'll get to play, I still see a kid who shoots funny, doesn't like contact and doesn't play many HS games against top competition.

Interesting.... the head coach is Don Showalter, a Mid-Prairie (Wellman, IA) graduate and is a fellow Wartburg alumni.

 

[Knight78]

I've also been in the camp that his last name is a big reason for his ranking. But InGoodCo has a point. Does anyone really care about the Fran McCaffery name? Are sons of coaches with average talent normally bumped to top 50 status? I really dont know but i doubt it. I would still say it helps his rating a little. But you have to question how much. The over rated kids are the ones who can dunk really well but can't really play basketball.

Absolutely. I can tell you from experience that too often a kid who is gifted athletically but doesn't understand basketball is ranked higher than a kid who understands basketball but is an average to above-average athlete.

 

[Knight78]

Rivals has Patrick at #31, 247 has him at #35, ESPN has him at #33. If you think that all 3 recruiting services got together in a secret meeting and decided to all throw Patrick into the top 35 just because his dad is a coach...you are just really f*cking stupid. Now, they could all be wrong...no doubt about it...but to think Fran "got to" 3 different recruiting services who are all competing with each other for the most reliable information...is just retarded.

What concerns me about Patrick is the dude is the same weight as I was in high school, but he's 5 inches taller. Fran can afford food, he needs to shove it down his throat.

Hey, I can relate. I was 6'8" when I graduated high school and weighed 155. As my dad said, I could stand under a clothesline in a rainstorm and not get wet. I was 210 when I graduated college. I'm at 255 now (40 years out of college). And I ate a LOT when I was in HS. I went to Happy Joe's and ordered a large sourkraut and Canadian bacon pizza and ate it all myself; I could also eat and entire bucket of KFC. I couldn't put on weight then. Now I look at that stuff and gain 5 pounds.

There are things he can do, but I'm sure his bout with cancer has something to do with his low weight. And the longer he is cancer free the better he can put on the weight.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Rivals has Patrick at #31, 247 has him at #35, ESPN has him at #33. If you think that all 3 recruiting services got together in a secret meeting and decided to all throw Patrick into the top 35 just because his dad is a coach...you are just really f*cking stupid. Now, they could all be wrong...no doubt about it...but to think Fran "got to" 3 different recruiting services who are all competing with each other for the most reliable information...is just retarded.

What concerns me about Patrick is the dude is the same weight as I was in high school, but he's 5 inches taller. Fran can afford food, he needs to shove it down his throat.

That’s not exactly how I see it.

First of all of you think those recruiting ranking sites are all completely independent of each other, you’re wrong. They just like any of us use all the information out there, which includes what the two other sites have kids ranked. They aren’t making a ton of money off of these rankings and aren’t investing a ton into them either, they do the best they can but it’s an imperfect science.

What I think happened here is that Pat and Connor for that matter were physically advanced for their age, which along with having a recognizable name propelled them into higher rankings when they were younger. The sites knew these kids were going to be High major players one way or another so the rankings at the time were justified. What happened with Connor is kids caught up and many passed him by and his ranking dropped. In my opinion it should have dropped a lot more than it did. As for Pat I think the dunking and length has kept his ranking higher but I do think over the next year his ranking will fall a bit. He basically has the same measurables right now as Maishe Dailey without an outside shot. Does that scream top 50 player to you?

That’s just my opinion, I certainly hope I’m wrong and Pat really is that type of kid. If that makes me a F’ing idiot or retarded, than so be it. (By the way people don’t say retarded any more)

 

[Hawkfnntn]

That’s not exactly how I see it.

First of all of you think those recruiting ranking sites are all completely independent of each other, you’re wrong. They just like any of us use all the information out there, which includes what the two other sites have kids ranked. They aren’t making a ton of money off of these rankings and aren’t investing a ton into them either, they do the best they can but it’s an imperfect science.

What I think happened here is that Pat and Connor for that matter were physically advanced for their age, which along with having a recognizable name propelled them into higher rankings when they were younger. The sites knew these kids were going to be High major players one way or another so the rankings at the time were justified. What happened with Connor is kids caught up and many passed him by and his ranking dropped. In my opinion it should have dropped a lot more than it did. As for Pat I think the dunking and length has kept his ranking higher but I do think over the next year his ranking will fall a bit. He basically has the same measurables right now as Maishe Dailey without an outside shot. Does that scream top 50 player to you?

That’s just my opinion, I certainly hope I’m wrong and Pat really is that type of kid. If that makes me a F’ing idiot or retarded, than so be it. (By the way people don’t say retarded any more)

He's being compared to other HS kids though right? So the other HS kids are where they are as well. I think Pat is a good prospect. Has skills that will translate to being a really good player in 2-3-4 yrs down the road. There's a difference between bein a one and done NBA guy and what he is. Or Wieskamp is. Ricky Davis wasn't 'ready' for the NBA when he went but he was good enough and his potential high enough to get drafted and ride the bench till he was. I won't pretend to know where Pats ceiling will be but I can see him being pretty darn good. Compared to other 6'7 to 6'9 guys his age I have no clue where he ranks but others that do that think he's pretty good too so that's enough for me

 

[HawkGold]

Interesting.... the head coach is Don Showalter, a Mid-Prairie (Wellman, IA) graduate and is a fellow Wartburg alumni.

Never saw that. Would normally expect Duwa or Miller. The Yoder's go to IMS.

 

[mopkins]

That’s not exactly how I see it.

First of all of you think those recruiting ranking sites are all completely independent of each other, you’re wrong. They just like any of us use all the information out there, which includes what the two other sites have kids ranked. They aren’t making a ton of money off of these rankings and aren’t investing a ton into them either, they do the best they can but it’s an imperfect science.

What I think happened here is that Pat and Connor for that matter were physically advanced for their age, which along with having a recognizable name propelled them into higher rankings when they were younger. The sites knew these kids were going to be High major players one way or another so the rankings at the time were justified. What happened with Connor is kids caught up and many passed him by and his ranking dropped. In my opinion it should have dropped a lot more than it did. As for Pat I think the dunking and length has kept his ranking higher but I do think over the next year his ranking will fall a bit. He basically has the same measurables right now as Maishe Dailey without an outside shot. Does that scream top 50 player to you?

That’s just my opinion, I certainly hope I’m wrong and Pat really is that type of kid. If that makes me a F’ing idiot or retarded, than so be it. (By the way people don’t say retarded any more)

I think the services see him for what he is....a top 50 high school junior. Does that mean he will be a top 50 senior? Does that mean he's one of the best 50 college freshman in 2 years? No. But right now he is one of the top 50 high school players in his class.

other kids will develop, other kids will burst onto the scene, other kids will likely pass Patrick next year. But for right now, he is where he is for a reason...other than just "his dad is a coach so he must be a top 50 player". If the dad thing were true, why was Doug McDermott a 3 star? His dad was the head coach at Iowa State while Doug was in high school.

 

[NikeHawk21]

He's being compared to other HS kids though right? So the other HS kids are where they are as well. I think Pat is a good prospect. Has skills that will translate to being a really good player in 2-3-4 yrs down the road. There's a difference between bein a one and done NBA guy and what he is. Or Wieskamp is. Ricky Davis wasn't 'ready' for the NBA when he went but he was good enough and his potential high enough to get drafted and ride the bench till he was. I won't pretend to know where Pats ceiling will be but I can see him being pretty darn good. Compared to other 6'7 to 6'9 guys his age I have no clue where he ranks but others that do that think he's pretty good too so that's enough for me

Sure. That’s a fair take.

I also think he’s a good prospect, in the sense that he has potential. My theory is that the early ranking and name have him ranked higher than he should be right now.

 

[HawkGold]

Rivals has Patrick at #31, 247 has him at #35, ESPN has him at #33. If you think that all 3 recruiting services got together in a secret meeting and decided to all throw Patrick into the top 35 just because his dad is a coach...you are just really f*cking stupid. Now, they could all be wrong...no doubt about it...but to think Fran "got to" 3 different recruiting services who are all competing with each other for the most reliable information...is just retarded.

What concerns me about Patrick is the dude is the same weight as I was in high school, but he's 5 inches taller. Fran can afford food, he needs to shove it down his throat.

Time will tell. My suggestion is they knew he'd get a P5 offer and they like to be right as well.

If you know anything about basketball, you'd notice his shot and his lack of engaging in contact. The guy who is responsible for his development has been the same guy who has been responsible for his development.

An MSU board I thought gave a pretty fair analysis of Iowa and Fran as a coach. In a nut shell, they like Iowa fans and CHA. They are impressed with Cook and J Bo. They don't like Fran and think he gets Iowa players to whine and holler about contact rather than playing.

It is what it is.

Did you notice how much bigger physically PSU was at every position on Saturday? MSU will be the same.

Swear and holler all you want and you can beat your chest when Iowa wins 24 games and get 2 wins in the NCAA when both boys are on the team. Until then, non of us really no anything. I nailed Woody and Marble pretty much on the head. White I missed. Nailed MG too and others including Pem so far.. Hope I'm wrong and he's White or Better. Jok with his injury was impossible to guess.

JBo is about what one would expect out of a Bo. He will be pretty darn good as a senior if he has a support cast.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I think the services see him for what he is....a top 50 high school junior. Does that mean he will be a top 50 senior? Does that mean he's one of the best 50 college freshman in 2 years? No. But right now he is one of the top 50 high school players in his class.

other kids will develop, other kids will burst onto the scene, other kids will likely pass Patrick next year. But for right now, he is where he is for a reason...other than just "his dad is a coach so he must be a top 50 player". If the dad thing were true, why was Doug McDermott a 3 star? His dad was the head coach at Iowa State while Doug was in high school.

Again I have no problem with that take, I’m just telling you in my opinion he’s not a top 50 High School junior. This is based on the belief that a 6’7 kid that is below average strength and doesn’t have much of an outside shot is a top 50 junior.

I can’t comment on Doug’s recruitment as I didn’t really follow it. I see he finished as a top 150 kid. Maybe he was overshadowed by Barnes?

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Time will tell. My suggestion is they knew he'd get a P5 offer and they like to be right as well.

If you know anything about basketball, you'd notice his shot and his lack of engaging in contact. The guy who is responsible for his development has been the same guy who has been responsible for his development.

An MSU board I thought gave a pretty fair analysis of Iowa and Fran as a coach. In a nut shell, they like Iowa fans and CHA. They are impressed with Cook and J Bo. They don't like Fran and think he gets Iowa players to whine and holler about contact rather than playing.

It is what it is.

Did you notice how much bigger physically PSU was at every position on Saturday? MSU will be the same.

Swear and holler all you want and you can beat your chest when Iowa wins 24 games and get 2 wins in the NCAA when both boys are on the team. Until then, non of us really no anything. I nailed Woody and Marble pretty much on the head. White I missed. Nailed MG too and others including Pem so far.. Hope I'm wrong and he's White or Better. Jok with his injury was impossible to guess.

JBo is about what one would expect out of a Bo. He will be pretty darn good as a senior if he has a support cast.

I totally agree. I think he is who he is pretty much. His stats will largely be affected by how good his teammates are and how other teams try defending us. Because he's a guy that can be taken out of games if you want to. But if Iowa's other players don't allow for that then he can break through for the big games he can have.

 

[CJHawkeye]

I said the take was lazy. I've changed my stance.... mostly because you guys helped CHANGE it.

And THAT is why there truly can't be too many threads pointing out how horrible Barta is.

 

[InGoodCo]

And THAT is why there truly can't be too many threads pointing out how horrible Barta is.

Right, a guy can change his mind right? I mean, we're having discussion here. I didn't dig in. I've always been civil with TK - now homey's putting me on blast. You guys tend to help shape my opinion on things. I am here for outside views other then my own. I would like to see Iowa have a new AD. This whole Fran contract just might lead to it. If you have a different opinion then mine, I hope you continue to post it.

 

[HawkGold]

Right, a guy can change his mind right? I mean, we're having discussion here. I didn't dig in. I've always been civil with TK - now homey's putting me on blast. You guys tend to help shape my opinion on things. I am here for outside views other then my own. I would like to see Iowa have a new AD. This whole Fran contract just might lead to it. If you have a different opinion then mine, I hope you continue to post it.

Sometimes it's how the opinion is shaped by others that is the problem..

 

[mopkins]

Again I have no problem with that take, I’m just telling you in my opinion he’s not a top 50 High School junior. This is based on the belief that a 6’7 kid that is below average strength and doesn’t have much of an outside shot is a top 50 junior.

I can’t comment on Doug’s recruitment as I didn’t really follow it. I see he finished as a top 150 kid. Maybe he was overshadowed by Barnes?

Fair enough. I don't know enough about Patrick to know any better, but I'm more likely to believe the "experts" who get paid to do this stuff for a living. They get a lot of things wrong, but they're usually pretty accurate when it comes to the top players in each class.

If Fran wasn't his dad, I'd be really curious to see what kind of offers he'd have right now. Wisconsin? Kansas?