Does Beathard Have Ferentz By The ----s?

[hoffahawk]

I think you are right. He should wait his chance and keep his mouth shut. We don't want competitors mucking things up for the Dictator. The last thing we would ever want on the Iowa team is a guy who thinks he's better than the guy playing, and is vocal about what he thinks he can do. That confidence will keep you on the bench under the current regime. After all, the guy playing only lost 5 games on an easy schedule. Which is simply disappointing...not unacceptable.

Wake up...sometimes you have to deal with life and it's unexpected curveballs...so deal with it KF and don't think you can control everything. Maybe that's why he's such a crappy game coach and can't out-think the other staff...because they think they know what should happen...and when it doesn't, they go all brain lock.

LOL. Yeah that's exactly how the real world works. Try walking into your bosses office and tell them that a decision they made was stupid or the guy he gave the promotion to isn't as good of an employee as you and that you deserved it more. I'm guessing if you have kids you let them tell you what they want you do to because you know they know what is best for them.

Some people really have no idea how the real world works. I have no problem with CJ or his dad thinking that he should be playing more, NONE. But that is a conversation to be had behind closed doors with the one person that can make that happen, KF. Not give an interview and say what they said.

And say what you want about a dictatorship but that is how sports work, what your coach says goes and if you don't like it you act like a man and go to the coach and tell him your feelings not go to the press.

 

[hoffahawk]

I think this deserves a post of the year. Hit the nail on the head Spider.

Except well over half of his points are either completely false, half truths or based on speculation. Par for the course anymore around here.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

I would be shocked to see golden Jesus trot out for the start, just isn't happening. But, I can definetly see him getting just enough snaps to wonder whether he will transfer or not.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

LOL. Yeah that's exactly how the real world works. Try walking into your bosses office and tell them that a decision they made was stupid or the guy he gave the promotion to isn't as good of an employee as you and that you deserved it more. I'm guessing if you have kids you let them tell you what they want you do to because you know they know what is best for them.

Some people really have no idea how the real world works. I have no problem with CJ or his dad thinking that he should be playing more, NONE. But that is a conversation to be had behind closed doors with the one person that can make that happen, KF. Not give an interview and say what they said.

And say what you want about a dictatorship but that is how sports work, what your coach says goes and if you don't like it you act like a man and go to the coach and tell him your feelings not go to the press.

I'm not sure who you work for, but If you have the right corporate culture, speaking out is encouraged and disagreements made the right way are also encouraged. Since I'm on the management side of things, I have pretty candid discussions with employees about direction and strategy. If your employees, who are closest to the customer can't tell it like it is and you don't encourage that, well, I'm pretty confident the downward spiral will come soon for the organization because they have lost touch. I get what you are saying about the "Right Way" to voice displeasure or conflict, but what I read wasn't bad because everyone knows the score with CJ...they didn't say anything that we don't already know. If the Dictator reacts the way I think he will...CJ sits in Jacksonville and transfers.

This isn't the 50s any longer. Coaches need to have multiple approaches to manage personalities and attitude. Simply doing what KF did in the 90s and early 2000s isn't enough...things have evolved. He hasn't, and it shows in recruiting and on the field. Has he tried recently to adapt...I'd say a little, but he's got a long way to go from the freaking stone age.

Here's a question for you...if CJ were a walk on from Iowa, would he be playing now? Interesting question.

 

[DJL]

I'm not sure who you work for, but If you have the right corporate culture, speaking out is encouraged and disagreements made the right way are also encouraged. Since I'm on the management side of things, I have pretty candid discussions with employees about direction and strategy. If your employees, who are closest to the customer can't tell it like it is and you don't encourage that, well, I'm pretty confident the downward spiral will come soon for the organization because they have lost touch. I get what you are saying about the "Right Way" to voice displeasure or conflict, but what I read wasn't bad because everyone knows the score with CJ...they didn't say anything that we don't already know. If the Dictator reacts the way I think he will...CJ sits in Jacksonville and transfers.

This isn't the 50s any longer. Coaches need to have multiple approaches to manage personalities and attitude. Simply doing what KF did in the 90s and early 2000s isn't enough...things have evolved. He hasn't, and it shows in recruiting and on the field. Has he tried recently to adapt...I'd say a little, but he's got a long way to go from the freaking stone age.

Here's a question for you...if CJ were a walk on from Iowa, would he be playing now? Interesting question.

This is a great post and I agree with all of it. I too am on the management side of things, and employees have all kinds of forums to voice any disagreement with the direction the department or company is headed. KF runs his program more like a dictatorship and it could be one of the many reasons we are stuck in mediocrity right now.

 

[Robowe]

This is a great post and I agree with all of it. I too am on the management side of things, and employees have all kinds of forums to voice any disagreement with the direction the department or company is headed. KF runs his program more like a dictatorship and it could be one of the many reasons we are stuck in mediocrity right now.

I agree that it is good for employees to have a way to voice a disagreement. When folks reported to me, I was always glad to have input on how the team was working together. However, what happened here was someone walked into the break room and announced (in front of a lot of other employees) he/she may be changing jobs if things don't work out to their satisfaction. Would you be OK with that if that person reported to you? Or, would you rather have that be a private conversation and/or electronic exchange where things are discussed to see what the best plan would be?

And secondly, I believe head coaches should be dictators to some extent. Do you think they should listen to all of the fans who call in and post on message boards (or players on the team, for that matter) and then decide who to play, what offense to run, and when to go for it on 4th down? If a coach did that, I think it would be difficult to stick to a coherent plan. The head coach should take input from the coaches on his staff, trust their input, and make the best decision possible with all of the factors taken into account. Folks may not agree with the outcome (of the decision), but at least they can respect that the decision was thought out. I think the real question is what input is Kirk getting on personnel and is he making the best decision with all of the factors at his disposal.

 

[DJL]

I agree that it is good for employees to have a way to voice a disagreement. When folks reported to me, I was always glad to have input on how the team was working together. However, what happened here was someone walked into the break room and announced (in front of a lot of other employees) he/she may be changing jobs if things don't work out to their satisfaction. Would you be OK with that if that person reported to you? Or, would you rather have that be a private conversation and/or electronic exchange where things are discussed to see what the best plan would be?

And secondly, I believe head coaches should be dictators to some extent. Do you think they should listen to all of the fans who call in and post on message boards (or players on the team, for that matter) and then decide who to play, what offense to run, and when to go for it on 4th down? If a coach did that, I think it would be difficult to stick to a coherent plan. The head coach should take input from the coaches on his staff, trust their input, and make the best decision possible with all of the factors taken into account. Folks may not agree with the outcome (of the decision), but at least they can respect that the decision was thought out. I think the real question is what input is Kirk getting on personnel and is he making the best decision with all of the factors at his disposal.

Very fair points. What we don't know is what types of conversations were had to get to this point. Maybe the kid felt like doing something like this was his last hope. And he didn't go on the radio and make some grand ultimatum. He answered a question. I said earlier I wouldn't handle it the same way, but I don't know what he has been through. It seems to most of us that he was promised more playing time. I'm sure he is very frustrated, and feels he couldn't get through to the coach.
As far as being a dictator, athletes are a lot different now. You have to be able to talk to them one on one, or at least have a couple of guys on staff who can. I think KF struggles with the new age athlete. Guys like Freddy up in Ames seem to be able to relate, so he can get more diverse (by diverse I mean different personality types, nothing to do with race) talent. I get sick of the cry baby athletes now also, but if you want good players, you have to adapt.

 

[deanvogs]

I agree that it is good for employees to have a way to voice a disagreement. When folks reported to me, I was always glad to have input on how the team was working together. However, what happened here was someone walked into the break room and announced (in front of a lot of other employees) he/she may be changing jobs if things don't work out to their satisfaction. Would you be OK with that if that person reported to you? Or, would you rather have that be a private conversation and/or electronic exchange where things are discussed to see what the best plan would be?

And secondly, I believe head coaches should be dictators to some extent. Do you think they should listen to all of the fans who call in and post on message boards (or players on the team, for that matter) and then decide who to play, what offense to run, and when to go for it on 4th down? If a coach did that, I think it would be difficult to stick to a coherent plan. The head coach should take input from the coaches on his staff, trust their input, and make the best decision possible with all of the factors taken into account. Folks may not agree with the outcome (of the decision), but at least they can respect that the decision was thought out. I think the real question is what input is Kirk getting on personnel and is he making the best decision with all of the factors at his disposal.

Great post.

I think people who have never been in positions of leadership just don't understand this. All CJ & his dad did was insure that he gets the exact same treatment he got all year long out of KF. If KF was really going to start CJ, or play CJ extended minutes, what CJ and his dad said only guaranteed that KF now has to scrap that plan and go back to what he did all year long.

For those that don't get it let me explain.
1) KF still has 85 scholarship players that he has to coach, he can't now let one set terms and dictate to him what is to happen on the field. This will only lead to 84 other players trying to do the same
2) It sets the precedent that it is OK to air these types of things outside of your office.
3) It sets the precedent that parents can bully and dictate playing time for their kids
4) If KF appears to have been dictated to by a player and parent (even if he fully intended to start him before they made these comments) it makes him look weak and ineffective.
5) No single player is above the program.

I think this sealed CJ's fate, and nothing will change from the way KF put him in games the whole year. If KF actually does start or play CJ extended minutes I will say that KF is very comfortable in his own skin, and it was a decision he had already made. Not only comfortable in his own skin, but also able to set his ego aside as well. No way, no how would it because CJ and his dad laid down some ultimatum to him.

 

[Robowe]

Very fair points. What we don't know is what types of conversations were had to get to this point. Maybe the kid felt like doing something like this was his last hope. And he didn't go on the radio and make some grand ultimatum. He answered a question. I said earlier I wouldn't handle it the same way, but I don't know what he has been through. It seems to most of us that he was promised more playing time. I'm sure he is very frustrated, and feels he couldn't get through to the coach.
As far as being a dictator, athletes are a lot different now. You have to be able to talk to them one on one, or at least have a couple of guys on staff who can. I think KF struggles with the new age athlete. Guys like Freddy up in Ames seem to be able to relate, so he can get more diverse (by diverse I mean different personality types, nothing to do with race) talent. I get sick of the cry baby athletes now also, but if you want good players, you have to adapt.

I would agree with Kirk not handling the new age athlete very well. Social media has changed the game. Hoiberg has definitely adapted to that aspect (probably because of his previous jobs in the NBA) as well as any college coach. However, it is a two way street. The athletes (and parents) need to realize who they are playing for (by their own choice, by the way) and also adapt as well.

 

[deanvogs]

Very fair points. What we don't know is what types of conversations were had to get to this point. Maybe the kid felt like doing something like this was his last hope. And he didn't go on the radio and make some grand ultimatum. He answered a question. I said earlier I wouldn't handle it the same way, but I don't know what he has been through. It seems to most of us that he was promised more playing time. I'm sure he is very frustrated, and feels he couldn't get through to the coach.
As far as being a dictator, athletes are a lot different now. You have to be able to talk to them one on one, or at least have a couple of guys on staff who can. I think KF struggles with the new age athlete. Guys like Freddy up in Ames seem to be able to relate, so he can get more diverse (by diverse I mean different personality types, nothing to do with race) talent. I get sick of the cry baby athletes now also, but if you want good players, you have to adapt.

I think you are wrong about Freddie. I don't think he would accept for one second a player coming out crying about playing time, or threatening to transfer if they "didn't play more". Freddie would open the door and say, get the F out now, I'll get someone else to replace you. I just don't see many coaches of any sport responding to a kid laying down an ultimatum like that in the public with actually giving him more playing time.

 

[seepig]

Boy, say what you will, but this chess(t) match is kind of fun to watch. Say it aint so, is this really happening, 12 games into the season and there is still an apparent QB competition? What coaching staff still has an open competition 12 games into the season. Shouldn't you know who you are at this point in the season?

Now comes the Beathard camp making chess moves to a coach that historically keeps a tight ship and you do things on Iowa's terms. I don't know how it's going to work out in the end, but this is rather entertaining to say the least.

I realize you are a HN Legend but are seriously starting this thread?! This is inconceivably ignorant. Nobody has KF over a barrel he holds all the cards...about $M of them a year. This is his announcement that he is ready to start taking offers from other quality football programs.

 

[seepig]

disagree, respectfully of course.

I agree with you there was nothing in that interview that was "classless" the world is abundant with examples of kids not getting a fair shot because the coach thinks whatever he thinks and doesn't play a kid. Actually the "Classy" thing for KF to do is be honest with CJ and tell him your NOT my number 1 and you are going to play back up until Jake graduates period. Then the kid can figure out if he wants to stick around for the crap KF dishes out. What's classless is for a coach to BS about every position being open....that's simply not true and it's ridiculous to say otherwise.

 

[seepig]

Great post.

I think people who have never been in positions of leadership just don't understand this. All CJ & his dad did was insure that he gets the exact same treatment he got all year long out of KF. If KF was really going to start CJ, or play CJ extended minutes, what CJ and his dad said only guaranteed that KF now has to scrap that plan and go back to what he did all year long.

For those that don't get it let me explain.
1) KF still has 85 scholarship players that he has to coach, he can't now let one set terms and dictate to him what is to happen on the field. This will only lead to 84 other players trying to do the same
2) It sets the precedent that it is OK to air these types of things outside of your office.
3) It sets the precedent that parents can bully and dictate playing time for their kids
4) If KF appears to have been dictated to by a player and parent (even if he fully intended to start him before they made these comments) it makes him look weak and ineffective.
5) No single player is above the program.

I think this sealed CJ's fate, and nothing will change from the way KF put him in games the whole year. If KF actually does start or play CJ extended minutes I will say that KF is very comfortable in his own skin, and it was a decision he had already made. Not only comfortable in his own skin, but also able to set his ego aside as well. No way, no how would it because CJ and his dad laid down some ultimatum to him.

Unfortunately, I agree. I actually don't think they were placing an ultimatum on KF. I think it was more to announce that he's a free agent now.

 

[deanvogs]

Unfortunately, I agree. I actually don't think they were placing an ultimatum on KF. I think it was more to announce that he's a free agent now.

Good point. Even if that wasn't it (announcing he was a free agent), I don't think they meant it as an ultimatum at all, but that is essence what it is. Also I felt they made it pretty clear they would prefer to stick at Iowa, but just couldn't stick around to continue to waste away on the bench.

 

[DJL]

I think you are wrong about Freddie. I don't think he would accept for one second a player coming out crying about playing time, or threatening to transfer if they "didn't play more". Freddie would open the door and say, get the F out now, I'll get someone else to replace you. I just don't see many coaches of any sport responding to a kid laying down an ultimatum like that in the public with actually giving him more playing time.

I'm not saying he would allow anyone to cry about playing time, I think he would have had the necessary conversations and relationship with the player with the concern so it never got to that point.

 

[hwk23]

I agree that it is good for employees to have a way to voice a disagreement. When folks reported to me, I was always glad to have input on how the team was working together. However, what happened here was someone walked into the break room and announced (in front of a lot of other employees) he/she may be changing jobs if things don't work out to their satisfaction. Would you be OK with that if that person reported to you? Or, would you rather have that be a private conversation and/or electronic exchange where things are discussed to see what the best plan would be?

And secondly, I believe head coaches should be dictators to some extent. Do you think they should listen to all of the fans who call in and post on message boards (or players on the team, for that matter) and then decide who to play, what offense to run, and when to go for it on 4th down? If a coach did that, I think it would be difficult to stick to a coherent plan. The head coach should take input from the coaches on his staff, trust their input, and make the best decision possible with all of the factors taken into account. Folks may not agree with the outcome (of the decision), but at least they can respect that the decision was thought out. I think the real question is what input is Kirk getting on personnel and is he making the best decision with all of the factors at his disposal.

If you lost employees as talented as CJ and Willies in the same month, not to mention the many others over the years, I would fire you. This doesn't happen to hungry coaches who want to win, not this often. When we lost Coker, for example, it was the equivalent of Nebraska losing Abdullah or Wiscy losing Melvin Gordon in terms of importance. You almost never hear of other programs losing their feature players, at least not as often as we do.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I would be shocked to see golden Jesus trot out for the start, just isn't happening. But, I can definetly see him getting just enough snaps to wonder whether he will transfer or not.

^yep. I personally haven't cared who starts. If they are close "in competition". Play both....with significant meaningful snaps...gamer emerges.

CJ has a stronger arm and through a better deep ball. Other than that we just haven't seen enough of him. He undoubtedly should have played more.

I'll say it again, as a grand sum, I don't think there's this enormous gap as overall qb talent goes (talent including reads, playbook, arm, accuracy, touch, etc). BOTH have shown the ability to win.

The problem is 3 fold: 1) JR was left in when struggling far too long...meaning 2) CJ wasn't getting enough game reps to show/develop and 3) the gameplans/play calling disquised and/or didn't allow for the difference in talent to show...not by a large enough margin anyway.

Most cases, I don't dig a full on 2 QB system...but this year it should have been, much more than it was.

Summary : CJ showed enough to get more game reps, at the very least when JR was obviously struggling. When JR was on, he was well above average, even very good...when he was off...he was bad (I do believe game plan and playcalling sometimes played into this).

I want both here next year, I also understand if CJ doesn't return.

Damnn.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

If you lost employees as talented as CJ and Willies in the same month, not to mention the many others over the years, I would fire you. This doesn't happen to hungry coaches who want to win, not this often. When we lost Coker, for example, it was the equivalent of Nebraska losing Abdullah or Wiscy losing Melvin Gordon in terms of importance. You almost never hear of other programs losing their feature players, at least not as often as we do.

I really liked Coker, but he wasn't even close the Abdullah or Gordon in terms of overall talent or importance to their teams. He was good and I am still pisssed how that all went down.

Willies, even if for a very good reason, left the team. I have absolutely no idea of the conversations or situation since then. It's all speculation, much like the CJ situation.

I don't like any of it. But go Hawks...anyway.

 

[DDThompson]

I have to admit I do not get this suggestion that an ultimatum has been thrown out.

If KF thinks that CJ should start, I believe he will start him regardless of what was reported in the press.

All the Beathards said is that thing will run its course and they will have a much better idea after Jan 2 where CJ stands. At that point, it will be much easier to make a decision. Thats not an ultimatum.

I think you and hwk are right. It's not intended to be an ultimatum. But that's the way it has come across to some.

KF says he evaluates his players/staff after the season (and some players don't come back after that evaluation and once-in-a-great-while even a coach); CJB says he'll evaluate his position after the season.

Why is it when KF says it he's a good manager and if CJB says exactly what KF says he's a bad team member?

 

[gohawks71]

Great point IMO! Has anyone seen a QB actually get better under Ferentz? I truly think he does more harm than good over the course of his tenure at Iowa. That has been the one thing he has never done an adequate job at. I've seen QB's that had plenty of talent come into the program only to decline and lose their edge under Ferentz. Sad..... just so sad!

Regardless of what KF may have said or promised, the issue for me is whether any QB can develop under KF's guidance.