Do you care if pro athletes use ped's?

[DuffMan]

These games we all enjoy now were an evolution away from the gladiators to something a civilized society could enjoy, short of death to the loser. Now we have MMA and UFC and a call on this board that PEDs are acceptable and even desired all for the sake of entertainment.

Seems like civilization is going backwards while technology delivers it at even more speed, fidelity, and frequency.

Sad.

Right, cause PED's in the NFL is a new thing.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/8322840

That was YOUR generation buddy.

 

[CAARHawk]

Okay, I'll jump in.

In the late 80's I worked very briefly for a company that kept worker's compensation files. One of the clients of this company was the Oakland A's. Big Mac and Canseco's files were at least 20 feet thick and Mac only joined the team in 1986. Looking at the size of the file my thought was, "he's done." Then came BALCO.

These substances have provided true medical benefit for many players, allowing them to continue earning a living when if they didn't have these substances, they would be broken bodies on the unemployment line.

The problem is that using these substances provides a competitive edge so that people who don't need them for injury recovery are at a disadvantage, so they need to be able to load up.

Then if that is the level of competition to which young athletes are going to be required to attain if they want to be professionals, then they need to be able to load up, because they won't make it in the pros if they have to wait to build the necessary physique. However, that's a moot point, because there is no way kids' athletics can afford complex testing mechanisms. So, your kid will only be able to compete at a high level if he or she is juiced, because the other kids will be juiced.

So, if you make it legal for pros, even for medicinal purposes, you basically have to make it legal for everyone.

 

[racerhawk]

I only care about it in sports I care about. Bicycle riding isn't one of them. I would say though, that protein and creatine help your body become stronger. You can take all the protein and creatine you want and it won't do for you what HGH does. It's artificial hormones that your body wouldn't otherwise have. This allows athletes to reach physical levels impossible to achieve without it. Protein and creatine enhance what you have; they don't give you extra hormones and testosterone, hence the shrinking of the balls because your body stops creating it itself.

A level playing field is all I want. Either allow them or ban the guys on first offense. It takes something away if somebody wins with an advantage the other team/person doesn't have.

First, it's bicycle racing, fwiw.
Second, your body makes testosterone and human growth hormone. Exogenous supply of these hormones just increase the amount (and benefits of them).
Lastly, baseball and football have no real testing programs. One can assume that many, many football and baseball players are juiced. So, you may care about that.

 

[racerhawk]

as an adult and under the care of a physician no. these guys aren't buying garbage substances of the street. they are receiving care from physicians who are in many cases among the best in the world. there are many studies showing that HGH when used properly is beneficial to the human body.

Excessive hGh and testosterone can have dire health consequences.

Liver failure and cancer would be but two examples.

Also, since your body makes them naturally, natural production of both relies on a negative feedback loop. If there is enough end product, the master gland shuts down production of the precursors.

If one takes exogenous hormones, that feedback loop shuts down all endogenous production of tesosterone and hGh. It is inclear if normal production returns completely with extended use of synthetic testosterone and hGh. That's not good!

There are definite medical indications for their use, but jacking up the levels abnormally does carry significant long term health risks.

 

[racerhawk]

Okay, I'll jump in.

In the late 80's I worked very briefly for a company that kept worker's compensation files. One of the clients of this company was the Oakland A's. Big Mac and Canseco's files were at least 20 feet thick and Mac only joined the team in 1986. Looking at the size of the file my thought was, "he's done." Then came BALCO.

These substances have provided true medical benefit for many players, allowing them to continue earning a living when if they didn't have these substances, they would be broken bodies on the unemployment line.

The problem is that using these substances provides a competitive edge so that people who don't need them for injury recovery are at a disadvantage, so they need to be able to load up.

Then if that is the level of competition to which young athletes are going to be required to attain if they want to be professionals, then they need to be able to load up, because they won't make it in the pros if they have to wait to build the necessary physique. However, that's a moot point, because there is no way kids' athletics can afford complex testing mechanisms. So, your kid will only be able to compete at a high level if he or she is juiced, because the other kids will be juiced.

So, if you make it legal for pros, even for medicinal purposes, you basically have to make it legal for everyone.

Great point. I think Tesosterone (like Androgel,etc) is currently a schedule 3 controlled substance. It's quite illegal to sell, distribute, etc without the proper authority to do so.

 

[DuffMan]

as an adult and under the care of a physician no. these guys aren't buying garbage substances of the street. they are receiving care from physicians who are in many cases among the best in the world. there are many studies showing that HGH when used properly is beneficial to the human body.

Excessive hGh and testosterone can have dire health consequences. Liver failure and cancer would be but two examples. Also, since your body makes them naturally, natural production of both relies on a negative feedback loop. If there is enough end product, the master gland shuts down production of the precursors. If one takes exogenous hormones, that feedback loop shuts down all endogenous production of tesosterone and hGh. It is inclear if normal production returns completely with extended use of synthetic testosterone and hGh. That's not good! There are definite medical indications for their use, but jacking up the levels abnormally does carry significant long term health risks.

which is exactly why i said under the care of a physician.

 

[racerhawk]

which is exactly why i said under the care of a physician.[/QUOT


Normal, healthy people don't need the stuff, so it would be unethical for a physician to give the stuff to a person in the absence of a clear indication of need for the drug, knowing that there are significant potential health consequences down the road.

That's why you could take a physician like this to court, and win...

Physicians give medicines to sick people all the time, and that still results in bad long term effects...and that's when the medicine was needed/indicated.

That's why they have to discuss risk vs. benefits in treating a disease.

Is football a disease?

 

[DuffMan]

nose jobs cure what disease? lypo cures what?

 

[Scorpio79]

nose jobs cure what disease? lypo cures what?

those stomach bands cure teh disease of Golden Corral buffet.

 

[KansasHawkeye]

These games we all enjoy now were an evolution away from the gladiators to something a civilized society could enjoy, short of death to the loser. Now we have MMA and UFC and a call on this board that PEDs are acceptable and even desired all for the sake of entertainment.Seems like civilization is going backwards while technology delivers it at even more speed, fidelity, and frequency.Sad.

You forgot to tell us kids to get off your damn lawn.

That's funny right there.

See Vin, you can be clever without being vicious.

Sorry I haven't around the past week for you to beat up, but I was in the Colorado Rockies catching big trout on a fly rod. Good stuff.

Good to be back, though. I missed your pithy retorts.

 

[Scorpio79]

That's funny right there.

See Vin, you can be clever without being vicious.

Sorry I haven't around the past week for you to beat up, but I was in the Colorado Rockies catching big trout on a fly rod. Good stuff.

Good to be back, though. I missed your pithy retorts.

I have no beef with you, KSH. I only give what I get 'round here, you know?

Were you casting midges?

 

[KansasHawkeye]

Floated the Colorado River drifting a three fly nymph rig. Caught some awesome rainbows and browns.

For a flatlander, it's a nice trip in late August.

 

[big10fan]

Floated the Colorado River drifting a three fly nymph rig. Caught some awesome rainbows and browns.

For a flatlander, it's a nice trip in late August.

send some to me, i love me some smoked trout!

 

[big10fan]

my take is you shouldn't just give up on testing, it still needs to be there to protect people from themselves. but the public just needs to wake up and realize that almost everyone is on something to give themselves an edge. lots and lots of misinformation out there.

 

[DuffMan]

my take is you shouldn't just give up on testing, it still needs to be there to protect people from themselves. but the public just needs to wake up and realize that almost everyone is on something to give themselves an edge. lots and lots of misinformation out there.

how orwellian

 

[Scorpio79]

Floated the Colorado River drifting a three fly nymph rig. Caught some awesome rainbows and browns.

For a flatlander, it's a nice trip in late August.

Buddy of mine lives in Montana. He drifts all the time. The pics he sends make me jelly. But doing what I do for a jobby means I can't live in Missoula, MT right now.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

Buddy of mine lives in Colorado. He just drinks and golfs all the time. Makes me jelly.

 

[Scorpio79]

Buddy of mine lives in Colorado. He just drinks and golfs all the time. Makes me jelly.

Trustafarians are extremely annoying people, aren't they.

 

[ColoradoHAWKEYE]

Back on the subj. What then about the use of drugs to make one relax or unwind or take away the pain after a game or exhibition? If you can shoot up before.

It is just a bad idea from to bottom, sure to the trickle down as descibed.

On a similar topic, What does anyone know about scopolamine?

 

[tm3308]

Back on the subj. What then about the use of drugs to make one relax or unwind or take away the pain after a game or exhibition? If you can shoot up before.

It is just a bad idea from to bottom, sure to the trickle down as descibed.

On a similar topic, What does anyone know about scopolamine?

Those are legal, and aren't performance enhancers.