Do we really lose that much next year?

deanvogs said:
We return a QB, 3 RB, 4 OL who have a lot of experience, and 2 WR. The only position group that really takes a hit is the TE position group, which is big. Yet that is college football, every year at least 1 or 2 position groups are going to get hit pretty hard to graduation/players leaving. Maybe we don't get to 400 YPG this year, but we aren't going to see a huge drop off from what we gained per game this year either.
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Also happens to be the single most important position group over the past 20 years, in the KF offense. It also happens to be the only offensive position group that could be counted on this season and last season. It also happens to be the position group that provides the security blanket of that returning QB. The one position group that still functions when his feet get happy due to a blitzing defense. That was the one position that seemed to be able to stretch the field. As amazing as that is to say.
That is College football. And that is why one season you have a 110th ranked offense, the next season you have the 70th ranked offense and the season after that, you fall back to the 100th ranked offense. If Hockenson comes back, we have a chance to be better. I'll easily concede that possibility. If he's gone, this offense will be worse. Far worse.
 
PCHawk said:
Saying this is like saying if this team played this schedule 100 times, we would end up 8-4 every time. That's not the way sports work.

It's entirely possible that we are actually a worse team next year, play a tougher schedule, and still end up with a better record. Upsets are a huge part of sports, so I dont understand the logic that the better team always wins.
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There is no logic to any of it. The only logic that can be applied is: They played the game, this is the final score. You either win or you lose. The rest is for people that refuse to accept that reality.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
That’s the great thing about sports. Nobody knows what will actually happen until the games are actually played.

Look at this year for example. We lose Jackson, Jewell, and Niemann and everyone is probably expecting the defense to take a step back and particularly the losses at linebacker would noticeable. Only thing is we ended up being a better defense this year because we had a loaded Dline and Hooker as a special player in the secondary to make up for the linebacker losses and the loss of Jackson.
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How much better would this defense be with Jackson? He was probably worth 1 or maybe 2 wins this season. Especially when you consider how we lost a couple of games. You can't seriously tell me we would be better if Hockenson and Fant left. Of course not. We'll be worse off. Just like we were worse off without Jackson.
 
Xerxes said:
The wonderful thing about facts is they don’t care about bias or feelings. Fact is Iowa won 8 and lost 4.

Iowa won some close games and lost some close games. Did it even out in the end? I guessing most Iowa fans say no. We don’t want to think about barely beating the worst Nebraska team I’ve ever seen. That doesn’t get a lot of play here but the close losses do. That’s the nature of being a fan I guess.

At some point you just have to perform. Iowa didn’t do that when it counted this year
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this is the truth. a few mistakes and not making a few plays likely cost the 4 losses. we all know what plays were mistakes and not made especially late in those games. so teams that aren't super dont make all the plays.

this year's hawk team is very talented but also mistake prone and not great enough to stop a few big plays a game especially when the other team goes into 4 down mode
 
lightning1 said:
There is no logic to any of it. The only logic that can be applied is: They played the game, this is the final score. You either win or you lose. The rest is for people that refuse to accept that reality.
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So you think the better team always wins then? There is a lot of evidence to prove you wrong.
 
Xerxes said:
I don’t have a narrative. I didn’t say a word about Iowa being as good, better, or worse than their record. I can’t argue with their record.

And in 5 close games they performed well enough to win in 1 of those games. Again a fact I can’t argue with. They also beat the piss out of some teams and avioded some close games. Add all that up and we’re back the the fact of 8-4.
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Well you lost the majority of your credibility when you said this years Nebraska team was the worst you’ve ever seen, but if you’d like to continue are you going to argue that all 8-4 teams are equal?

We can go down that road if you like. Do you think the 2013 that went 8-4 was the same as the 2008 team that went 8-4?

2013- Rudock at QB. Weisman at RB, leading WR 388 yards. On defense Tanner Miller and John Lowdermilk were our safeties.

2008- Stanzi at QB. Shonn Greene at RB (finished top 5 in Heisman). DJK, Andy Brodell, Brandon Meyers top WRs. Defense (King, Kroul, Klug, Clayborn, Binns, Hunter, Angerer, Edds, Fletcher, Spievey, Sash, and Greenwood).

So by your logic 2008 Iowa and 2013 Iowa were equal teams because they were both 8-4. Thanks for playing.
 
lightning1 said:
How much better would this defense be with Jackson? He was probably worth 1 or maybe 2 wins this season. Especially when you consider how we lost a couple of games. You can't seriously tell me we would be better if Hockenson and Fant left. Of course not. We'll be worse off. Just like we were worse off without Jackson.
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Now your changing the goalposts. Of course Iowa would be better this year with Jackson than without him but that’s not the point. Of course they would be better off next year with Fant and Hock on offense as opposed to them not being there.

The point is although they they lost Jackson and Jewell (two all Americans), and Niemann (NFL player), and everyone thought our defense would likely take a step back, it didn’t it was actually noticeably better this year.

Everyone knows that losing Fant and Hock hurts, but that doesn’t mean other guys can’t step up in other places, like our Dline this year.

Nobody is saying it’s a certainty that next years offense will be better, they are saying it’s possible. What if our offensive line actually improves with our two big tackles and other guys step up inside? What if NS puts it all together and plays like the best QB in the B1G next year? What if by the end of their careers we look at Smith, ISM, and Tracy as 3 of the best WRs in the KF era? What if Goodson came in and was so good that he earned his way onto the field and had a 1,400 yard season? What if BF’s play calling improves in year 3 and he keeps defenses guessing with timely play calls?

I’m not saying all or any of those things will happen next year but what I’m saying is we won’t really know until the season plays out.
 
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To me, it's not always about what you lose, but what you have back.

Did Iowa lose a lot by replacing Desmond King with Josh Jackson?

Did Iowa lose a lot by replacing Jackson with Moss, etc.?

Did Iowa lose a lot by replacing James Morris with Josey Jewell?

Did Iowa lose a lot by replacing Hitchens and Kirksey with Bower and Niemann?

Will Iowa lose a lot next year by replacing our punter with my dead grandma?
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Now your changing the goalposts. Of course Iowa would be better this year with Jackson than without him but that’s not the point. Of course they would be better off next year with Fant and Hock on offense as opposed to them not being there.

The point is although they they lost Jackson and Jewell (two all Americans), and Niemann (NFL player), and everyone thought our defense would likely take a step back, it didn’t it was actually noticeably better this year.

Everyone knows that losing Fant and Hock hurts, but that doesn’t mean other guys can’t step up in other places, like our Dline this year.

Nobody is saying it’s a certainty that next years offense will be better, they are saying it’s possible. What if our offensive line actually improves with our two big tackles and other guys step up inside? What if NS puts it all together and plays like the best QB in the B1G next year? What if by the end of their careers we look at Smith, ISM, and Tracy as 3 of the best WRs in the KF era? What if Goodson came in and was so good that he earned his way onto the field and had a 1,400 yard season? What if BF’s play calling improves in year 3 and he keeps defenses guessing with timely play calls?

I’m not saying all or any of those things will happen next year but what I’m saying is we won’t really know until the season plays out.
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All I know is that we won't be better next year, after the loss of Fant and Hockenson. That much I am 100% certain of.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Well you lost the majority of your credibility when you said this years Nebraska team was the worst you’ve ever seen, but if you’d like to continue are you going to argue that all 8-4 teams are equal?

We can go down that road if you like. Do you think the 2013 that went 8-4 was the same as the 2008 team that went 8-4?

2013- Rudock at QB. Weisman at RB, leading WR 388 yards. On defense Tanner Miller and John Lowdermilk were our safeties.

2008- Stanzi at QB. Shonn Greene at RB (finished top 5 in Heisman). DJK, Andy Brodell, Brandon Meyers top WRs. Defense (King, Kroul, Klug, Clayborn, Binns, Hunter, Angerer, Edds, Fletcher, Spievey, Sash, and Greenwood).

So by your logic 2008 Iowa and 2013 Iowa were equal teams because they were both 8-4. Thanks for playing.
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I never said 8-4 teams are equal. You must have me confused with somebody else. I simply said I can't argue with Iowa's record. We can argue how good we think they are but that really isn't my concern. I only care that they won 8 and lost 4. As a fan, I'd like to think they're better than that record but there is no way around the fact they still lost 4 games.

I Nebraska comment was me. I never seen a Nebraska team as bad as this year's version. They only won 4 games. I think they lost to Troy & Colorado at home and there defense couldn't stop anyone. You seem to like to talk down to me quite a bit so educate me on a Nebraska team that had a worse season.
 
99topdawg said:
To me, it's not always about what you lose, but what you have back.

Did Iowa lose a lot by replacing Desmond King with Josh Jackson? NO

Did Iowa lose a lot by replacing Jackson with Moss, etc.? YES

Did Iowa lose a lot by replacing James Morris with Josey Jewell? NO

Did Iowa lose a lot by replacing Hitchens and Kirksey with Bower and Niemann? YES

Will Iowa lose a lot next year by replacing our punter with my dead grandma? NO
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The facts are that we will have to replace 129 catches for 1626 yards, next season. That's the totals for Easly, Fant and Hockenson. This is still a KF coached team and a KF offense. He's an inside -out type of offensive coach. Losing the TEs and possession WR are going to hurt us. I don't see it any other way.
 
In fact, I'm so sure about next season's offense being worse than this season, that I'm willing to bet that BF gets a promotion to Assistant HC and a raise before next season starts. Gutless Gary will want to get that done this summer.
 
Xerxes said:
I never said 8-4 teams are equal. You must have me confused with somebody else. I simply said I can't argue with Iowa's record. We can argue how good we think they are but that really isn't my concern. I only care that they won 8 and lost 4. As a fan, I'd like to think they're better than that record but there is no way around the fact they still lost 4 games.

I Nebraska comment was me. I never seen a Nebraska team as bad as this year's version. They only won 4 games. I think they lost to Troy & Colorado at home and there defense couldn't stop anyone. You seem to like to talk down to me quite a bit so educate me on a Nebraska team that had a worse season.
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Nebraska in 2017 was as bad if not worse. They gave up 54, 56, and 56 in their last three games which included Iowa. They were playing their worst ball of the year at the end as opposed to this years teams playing their best.

If 8-4 is the only number that matters. Iowa should remove ISU and any other P5 team from the schedule. They should schedule only bottom feeder MAC and Sunbelt teams to guarantee themselves wins. If possible they should drop out of the B1G and schedule only cream puffs so they can win more than 8 games.

Not all wins and losses are created equal.
 
lightning1 said:
Both. See my post above this reply.
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Fair enough. I don’t blame you or think that’s a bad take, especially if Hock goes. I’m just saying there are other areas that can be improved (rushing attack, better WR play, better QB play, better Oline play), that could absorb some of the losses of those guys.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Fair enough. I don’t blame you or think that’s a bad take, especially if Hock goes. I’m just saying there are other areas that can be improved (rushing attack, better WR play, better QB play, better Oline play), that could absorb some of the losses of those guys.
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A better running game/OL play can make a huge difference. I think that cost us 3 losses, honestly.
 
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