Iowafarmgirl
Banned
Fair enough. I am pretty sure I am the only former Division 1 athlete posting here, and my experience tells me that the better team always finds ways to win.
I agree to disagree.
Did Hightower & Co. cheat us out of Cartwright's heave?
- Thread starter tweeterhawk
- Start date
Fair enough. I am pretty sure I am the only former Division 1 athlete posting here, and my experience tells me that the better team always finds ways to win.
I agree to disagree.
masoncityhawkeye
Well-Known Member
Good one, I doubt you are the only one. I played D1 sports and the best teams don't always win, that is my experience.
good to know though Farmgirl, I'll just pick the higher seed in my bracket and will win every game then!!
koolhandlick
Well-Known Member
Did they ever do a skit about you on Soundoff ? If they did I must have missed it. Can't remember seeing B-ROSS babysitting your goat.
Iowafarmgirl
Banned
Brackets don't tell you who the better team is. I guess a way to picture my philosophy is this. If a team plays 100% up its potential, the refs cannot rob them. If a team plays below its potential, then they can't blame the refs, they have to blame themselves.
Now, since I think playing to 100% of your capabilities is a philosophical impossibility, the natural result is that the refs cannot rob you. You can always play better in spite of the refs, so the team always has themselves to blame before the officials.
/clear as mud?
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83Hawk
Banned
Apparently they and the TV announcers are the only ones who think he is a good ref.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
You can add coaches and conferece supervisors to that list. Ed has been chosen to work in all but 2 NCAA tournaments in the last 15 years. In order to work an NCAA tournament game you first have to be nominated by a conference supervisor and they base thier nominations on each officials season grade. The specific critera are different for each supervisors but all heavily weigh input from the coaches and individual school officials as well as thier own independant review of officials.
When it comes down to it the only people that really matter think Ed is a good official.
Hawke
Well-Known Member
Always? So then Chaminade was a better team than #1 Virginia? Hampton was a better team than ISU? Oral Roberts was better than #3 Kansas? Bucknell better than Kansas?
tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
Duffman or whoever knows, when you have a clock, horn and backboard lights, which one officially signals the end of the shot clock and the end of the regulation period (the halves and any overtime)?
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
They all should be in synch. That said we always use the horn.
EddyP
Well-Known Member
Here is what I found:
Here's the rule cut and pasted from the NCAA Rule Book:
"Rule 5, Sec. 7 (page 91)
Art. 1. Each period shall begin when the ball becomes live.
Art. 2. Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights have become
activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall
end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.
a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall
terminate players’ activity.
b. In games with a 10th-of-a-second game clock display and where an
official courtside monitor is used, the reading of zeros on the game
clock is to be used to determine whether a try for goal occurred
before or after the expiration of time in any period.
When the game clock is not visible, the officials shall verify the original call
with the use of the red/LED light(s). When the red/LED light(s) are not
visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be utilized. When
definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the
original call stands."
So -- to recap the official rule...the order of importance for ruling an end game shot...
-1st -- if the refs rule the game over and there is no controversy -- then it's over
-2nd, if there is a controversy or buzzer beater play, then it is the replay video of the game clock that determines the call
-3rd if the clock or video are not available, then it is the referee's judgement regarding the lights on the backboard
-then finally, only if both those other sources are unavailable or fail, then use it falls to the referee's judgment on whether the play beat the horn.
Here's the rule cut and pasted from the NCAA Rule Book:
"Rule 5, Sec. 7 (page 91)
Art. 1. Each period shall begin when the ball becomes live.
Art. 2. Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights have become
activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible, each period shall
end with the sounding of the game-clock horn.
a. In games when the red light is not present, the game-clock horn shall
terminate players’ activity.
b. In games with a 10th-of-a-second game clock display and where an
official courtside monitor is used, the reading of zeros on the game
clock is to be used to determine whether a try for goal occurred
before or after the expiration of time in any period.
When the game clock is not visible, the officials shall verify the original call
with the use of the red/LED light(s). When the red/LED light(s) are not
visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be utilized. When
definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the
original call stands."
So -- to recap the official rule...the order of importance for ruling an end game shot...
-1st -- if the refs rule the game over and there is no controversy -- then it's over
-2nd, if there is a controversy or buzzer beater play, then it is the replay video of the game clock that determines the call
-3rd if the clock or video are not available, then it is the referee's judgement regarding the lights on the backboard
-then finally, only if both those other sources are unavailable or fail, then use it falls to the referee's judgment on whether the play beat the horn.
Uh, on point #1, you are 100% false. And an extra point for being incredibly smug.
On the idea that the better team always find a way to win: well, that requires a bit of context. Better team THAT DAY FOR THOSE 2 SPECIFIC HOURS? I might agree with you, there. But, I don't view it that way. If the better team always wins, why is the NBA final a 7 game series? And how can you explain any series that is not a sweep? How do you explain two collegiate teams playing twice in a year and splitting the series? Or, in some cases, 4 times a year and each winning 2 times? Or anything not a sweep?
Have you ever played in an AAU tourney or any other tourney for that matter and seen two teams have to play twice in one day? It happens. And I can assure you, the same team doesn't always win both games.
Baseball doubleheaders. Your theory would put doubleheader sweeps at 100%. Wrong. Even if the same players played in both games at the same positions, it isn't a guarantee.
Individual sports. Tennis, swimming, wrestling ... often times at different levels of competition, two athletes go at it twice in one day. Sometimes, even back-to-back depending on whether there is a true Champion (meaning, the winner of the consos has to beat the winner's bracket champ twice) and it doesn't always work out that the same individual wins.
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tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
In short, Iowa, and Bryce, got screwed.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
I don't follow, I watched a reply on the telectast that featured the game clock synched with the shot, it appeared to shot the clock at zero with the ball on Bryces finger tips.
ColumbusHawk
Well-Known Member
Herkeynerd
Well-Known Member
For those of you saying that we shouldn't worry about Hightower, we did lose in OT by 3. To get to OT you have to be tied. You allow 3 to Iowa at the end of the first half, Iowa isn't tied after regulation, and wins the game. Now I understand that is a lot of contingencies and the flow of the game may have been different with Iowa up 11, but simple math would dictate that being cheated out of 3 points may have been enough to get a win for Iowa. That could have been huge.
On a side note, I've noticed a little bit of a bias in officiating this year. I'm biased towards the Hawks, but it does seem like a majority of the calls go in favor of the team with the better record. Tell me how a player can call a timeout on the floor while scrapping for the ball and he doesn't even have possession? That's blatant!
On a side note, I've noticed a little bit of a bias in officiating this year. I'm biased towards the Hawks, but it does seem like a majority of the calls go in favor of the team with the better record. Tell me how a player can call a timeout on the floor while scrapping for the ball and he doesn't even have possession? That's blatant!
Iowa vs Florida 2005 Outback Bowl.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
The refs certainly robbed us of another chance to win that game, but they did not put us in that position to begin with.
