Consolation Prize: We Graduate Players

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WinOneThisCentury

Well-Known Member
I've been trying to think of something we do better than Iowa State at this point. We got beat by a 2-10 awful ISU Football Team (yes, Kirk Ferentz, you should care) and we just got hammered by the Iowa State basketball team and it's clear they are much more athletic at the guard / forward positions.

If you want to point to something, anything we do better, well, we graduate our athletes, specifically our African American athletes.

The Mayor graduates 14% of his black athletes / Iowa graduates 80%.

it's all I got at this point. Someone needs to tell Barta that we need to win too.
 
I just posted this since I saw everyone talking about what a great coach the Mayor is. Seems to me his players don't understand the whole college process at this point. Maybe Fred didn't let them know about credits and graduation.
 
WOTC,, That's not a small point you make. Iowa does do a good job prepairing kids for life after collage. ISU not so much. That doesn't make me feel much better this morning as ISU clearly has a better BB team. But in the big picture It is more important. Proud to be a Hawk
 
1977Hawkeye said:
That's great, but get back to me when that helps get us into the NCAA Tournament.
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Ok...when Fran starts recruiting smart guys that can play...I'll let you know. I just don't believe education is a priority over there and the Mayor isn't doing his job because the last time I checked...these guys are supposed to get an education too. Whatever way you look at it, it's about winning there...and I get it...but make an effort at least.

14% is pretty abysmal.
 
If you don't care about things like that you might as well pick a new team. Because Iowa will always have a different set of priorities. Like it or not that's just the way it is.
 
LASBUR said:
WOTC,, That's not a small point you make. Iowa does do a good job prepairing kids for life after collage. ISU not so much. That doesn't make me feel much better this morning as ISU clearly has a better BB team. But in the big picture It is more important. Proud to be a Hawk
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About the only people that care are the fans of losing programs... Administrators,coaches,players, alumni don't seem to be too concerned. Some of them give lip service to graduation rates but that is about all. Show me the money.
 
LASBUR said:
If you don't care about things like that you might as well pick a new team. Because Iowa will always have a different set of priorities. Like it or not that's just the way it is.
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As a Hawkeye sports fan, I find that thought depressing.

I'm not saying academics shouldn't be important, but if that's the #1 priority at the UofI with regard to the sports programs and winning is merely "nice to have but doesn't matter as long as the athletes get an education", then the Athletic Department needs to either A) reconsider how much they care about winning or B) accept the fact that attendance will suffer, and eat the lost dollars.

How many people are going to show up to watch a bad team simply because the program graduates a high rate of its players?

You will always have your die hards who are there no matter what, but most sports fans expect their team to win, and lose interest when they don't. That's the nature of the beast. We all saw how empty Carver was during the Lickliter years, so I can't believe that Iowa fans are any different. I can't vouch for the graduation % those years, but I doubt it would have made any difference in the attendance figures.
 
This thread points out the true hypocrisy of the NCAA who continues to insist on calling FB and BB players "student-athletes".

Student<<<Athlete really should be the logo. Seriously. The schools and NCAA trot out the graduation rates and academic all-american list once in a blue moon. Then it's back to "just win baby."

Either reward coaches for player-academic achievement or give up the facade.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
As a Hawkeye sports fan, I find that thought depressing.

I'm not saying academics shouldn't be important, but if that's the #1 priority at the UofI with regard to the sports programs and winning is merely "nice to have but doesn't matter as long as the athletes get an education", then the Athletic Department needs to either A) reconsider how much they care about winning or B) accept the fact that attendance will suffer, and eat the lost dollars.

How many people are going to show up to watch a bad team simply because the program graduates a high rate of its players?

You will always have your die hards who are there no matter what, but most sports fans expect their team to win, and lose interest when they don't. That's the nature of the beast. We all saw how empty Carver was during the Lickliter years, so I can't believe that Iowa fans are any different. I can't vouch for the graduation % those years, but I doubt it would have made any difference in the attendance figures.
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I do not care about graduation rates. It's up to each player if they want to take advantage of getting a free education or not. Awesome if they do.

Why is it so important that every player graduate? Does the university really care about every student in the general body graduating?

The whole thing can be a sham anyway. See UNC where kids graduated never attending class or doing any school work of any kind. See the many universities that come up with some fake area of study for the athletes to enroll in when they do not care about going to school but that degree is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Graduation rates just means you are running a losing program.
 
Fans of an athletic team who never attended university of said athletic team being proud of graduation rates = COMEDIC GOLD!!
 
Looking at graduation rates is a two edged sword. If two teams have similar academic standards and if players remain eligible then they can play.

A lot of players dont graduate because of how they count transfers, dropouts, leaving early, etc. some football players dont go to class much their last semester to concentrate on NFL tryouts.
 
I really think we need to drop the pretense that major school athletic programs are about academics. Coming from a lifelong hawk fan, and student of the UI.
 
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SpecialKHawk said:
I do not care about graduation rates. It's up to each player if they want to take advantage of getting a free education or not. Awesome if they do.

Why is it so important that every player graduate? Does the university really care about every student in the general body graduating?

The whole thing can be a sham anyway. See UNC where kids graduated never attending class or doing any school work of any kind. See the many universities that come up with some fake area of study for the athletes to enroll in when they do not care about going to school but that degree is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Graduation rates just means you are running a losing program.
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That's pretty much the way I see it. I also think that if a kid is legitimately interested in getting an education, he is going to get it even if he doesn't go to Iowa. If he doesn't care, then it probably isn't going to matter much which school he plays for, either. I can't say I approve of what went on at UNC if players didn't have to go to class or do their own homework, but as far as I'm concerned, as long as Iowa's players are doing enough work in the classroom to stay eligible, and don't commit any serious crimes (no, I don't give a rip about moped violations) then I'm good. Oh, and winning, too.

I'd rather watch a team that wins but has mediocre students, then spend time watching my favorite team get its arse handed to them but are top-notch students. Academics aren't what I'm thinking about when I'm sitting in front of the tube watching a game.

Would I rather our team win AND our players graduate with 4.0's? Of course! That would be fantastic. But until Iowa becomes Duke, Kentucky, etc. where it can have their pick of the litter on recruits who have game and are model citizens, I feel Iowa is going to have to take some chances on certain recruits if it wants to compete. See that little school a little bit west of Iowa City as a prime example. There are no guarantees, but they did what it took to get talent in the program, and it's paid off.

For me, it all comes down to this: Sure, I would rather our players be great players who are also good students, and graduate, but when you're losing, there's only so long you can listen to all the "right way" talk before it starts to ring hollow. Frankly, I'm there. When's the last time Iowa has won an NCAA Tournament game?

Maybe I'd be better off as a pro sports fan, but I grew up in Iowa and have always bled black and gold. I just want to see them win and the last 15 years of Iowa hoops really pains me. It really did used to be a terrific program in the 80's and 90's. I miss it.
 
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Yeah, I agree, we shouldn't care about graduation rate or educating...all these guys play pro ball somewhere and will be set for life, right...of course they do. Who cares what they do on campus. It's about all about winning.

That's bullsh*t. Until they convert this college scholarship thing to optional education requirement...these kids should be measured on making progress to a degree or they don't play. It's the schools responsibility to give them the tools they need to be successful in life through education, not pass the buck and let them skate. Universities can game the system all they want, but isn't it the administration (academic and athletic) responsible for making sure that doesn't happen? Simply walking away from that responsibility because they are athletes is wrong. The requirement for playing basketball at a major university is that you get an education while you are doing it and it should be measured.

Schools like Iowa State should be ashamed of a 14% grad rate for kids they bring in.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Yeah, I agree, we shouldn't care about graduation rate or educating...all these guys play pro ball somewhere and will be set for life, right...of course they do. Who cares what they do on campus. It's about all about winning.

That's bullsh*t. Until they convert this college scholarship thing to optional education requirement...these kids should be measured on making progress to a degree or they don't play. It's the schools responsibility to give them the tools they need to be successful in life through education, not pass the buck and let them skate. Universities can game the system all they want, but isn't it the administration (academic and athletic) responsible for making sure that doesn't happen? Simply walking away from that responsibility because they are athletes is wrong. The requirement for playing basketball at a major university is that you get an education while you are doing it and it should be measured.

Schools like Iowa State should be ashamed of a 14% grad rate for kids they bring in.
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That is a noble idea. Let me follow up and ask you where is the reward for doing this?

Was there special privileges granted to schools like Iowa with high graduation rates for athletes? No. Did Iowa receive more state funding from the Regents? No. Name something tangible we have received for this pursuit?

Look I am proud and happy for the kids that take it seriously but there is no reward athletically other than watching others celebrate.

If we want to be an IVY league school we could run a much cheaper athletic department. Hire a coach for football and basketball for a 100 grand each and make all your tickets 5 dollars. No sense in charging for a product you have zero intention on delivering.
 
SpecialKHawk said:
That is a noble idea. Let me follow up and ask you where is the reward for doing this?

Was there special privileges granted to schools like Iowa with high graduation rates for athletes? No. Did Iowa receive more state funding from the Regents? No. Name something tangible we have received for this pursuit?

Look I am proud and happy for the kids that take it seriously but there is no reward athletically other than watching others celebrate.

If we want to be an IVY league school we could run a much cheaper athletic department. Hire a coach for football and basketball for a 100 grand each and make all your tickets 5 dollars. No sense in charging for a product you have zero intention on delivering.
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So what you are saying is always take the easy route, don't do the right thing, and certainly don't hold anyone accountable? How does that work out in life? Usually, you end up fat on a sofa somewhere eating government cheese. This is definitely coming for a millennial or Gen Y or whatever. Don't do the work if you don't have to...it's not like it makes you better or anything. Have you taken the course Entitlement 101 yet? It's awesome.
 
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