Supposedly he's getting his info on CJ's arm strength from the coach. I don't believe for a second that the coaches are telling him that so it makes me question everything he says.
CJB...
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Supposedly he's getting his info on CJ's arm strength from the coach. I don't believe for a second that the coaches are telling him that so it makes me question everything he says.
HawkInATX
Well-Known Member
57 yards, on a dime, hitting him in stride, in a place where the defender had no chance... with a torn groin and a sports hernia, meaning hampered when it comes to throwing deep off the back foot. I'm not saying he's got an all-world arm. I'm saying it's definitely stronger than Rudock's was.
Yeah, Jan. 16th. which is not 'right after' the Rose Bowl and and 5 weeks after the BB game. God, you're an idiot. Like I keep saying, you twits just keep making up whatever you like in the feeble attempt to shroud your idiocy. If you think 5 weeks is a couple weeks, then I can see how you'd think a average arm is a strong arm. You don't have much of a concept of differentials and you continue to prove it. But, don't feel bad. Some of your 'buddies' suffer from the same affliction....I understand that for some, message boards are a place for 'special' people to come because they get laughed at when they share their 'opinions' in public, but can you dolts try to keep it to a minimum, some of us knowledgeable people are trying to have intelligent conversations........
You don't think Davis had any say in it? I understand that ultimately KF is 'responsible' for every decision....And as I've said before, how healthy was JR the rest of the year after he got hurt in the Pitt game? I KNOW he wasn't 100%...
It was a good throw. How does that prove that it is stronger than Rudock's was? What type of 'reasoning' is that? Lol..Inductive? Deductive? Casual? Sounds like a fallacy to me. Keep trying!
Fallacies of Reasoning
Fallacies are flaws within the logic or reasoning of an argument. Although we will discuss 10 common fallacies, more than 125 have been identified and named. It’s important to note that the presence of a fallacy in an argument doesn’t mean that it can’t be persuasive. In fact, many people are persuaded by fallacious arguments because they do not identify the fallacy within the argument. Fallacies are often the last effort of uninformed or ill-prepared speakers who find that they have nothing better to say.
This thread has gone on far too long. Even casual observers can see CJ's arm is bigger than Rudock's. The below video shows Rudock's 72 yard TD pass to Powell in 2014 (if I messed up embedding it, start at 1:04).
Rudock throws the ball from Iowa's 21 yardline, and Powell catches it at the Indiana 31. 48 yards in the air, which isn't bad, except for the fact that Rudock fully steps into the throw, and the ball is slightly short of Powell's route, causing him to come back to it, which he can since he's wide open after blowing past the defender. An injured CJB hit Tevaun Smith 58 yards in the air, in stride, and in tight coverage. In short Ickehawk, your "sources" are full of crap, and you're just an argumentative douche who can't be an adult and admit when you're wrong.
Rudock throws the ball from Iowa's 21 yardline, and Powell catches it at the Indiana 31. 48 yards in the air, which isn't bad, except for the fact that Rudock fully steps into the throw, and the ball is slightly short of Powell's route, causing him to come back to it, which he can since he's wide open after blowing past the defender. An injured CJB hit Tevaun Smith 58 yards in the air, in stride, and in tight coverage. In short Ickehawk, your "sources" are full of crap, and you're just an argumentative douche who can't be an adult and admit when you're wrong.
AdamHawk
Well-Known Member
This I don't understand. For someone who has 'spent over 25 years working the box' leads one to believe you are older than you act. If you didn't actually say this, I'd guess your age to be somewhere around 14. Either you are full of crap or just very immature.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Are you stoned? That was as good a throw as he could have made, and I would hardly call it "fully steps into". JR also had the throw to Powell against Pitt that Powell "lost".
I prefer CJB and I'm glad he's our QB. But the overriding is, Icke is right. JR was NOT "the" problem in 2014.
HawkInATX
Well-Known Member
You should try to identify the type of fallacy before accusing me of perpetrating one (your unattributed and un-cited quotation with added emphasis says there are more than 125 out there, but it's okay, i'm sure you know the author as well as you know the coaches so I'm sure they're okay with you not properly identifying them as your source of information).
I never said it was a bad throw, but it was definitely slightly underthrown. The argument was not who was the better QB in 2014, it was whether or not CJB's arm is bigger.
And for the record, JR was not "the" problem in 2014, but IMO he was given more chances than CJB and did less with them, but let's not start that argument again.
I'm not going to dig up the interviews of both players and coaches who commented on CJ'S leadership, but to me that was a big difference between 2014 and 2015,. So the team thought CJ was a great leader, that is fact. I guess my statement that his leadership played a big role in the improvement I guess is just my opinion, but certainly not mine alone.
Leadership amongst the players certainly plays into it, especially with last years seniors (which the players and KF talked about numerous times) and it sounds like CJ and Jewell stepped up as well. JR and CJ (as I've said numerous times) were different types of leaders. JR was a quiet leader who led by example (as expressed by both KF and Harbaugh) while CJ has more of a rock-star persona that can fire up some of the youngsters. KF gave more credit for leadership to the seniors than he ever did for CJ. They had very little senior leadership in 2014 from my understanding. They (the coaches) normally put it on the seniors to be the leaders (as reflected in past leadership councils) but last year opened it up for some of the 'leaders' in the underclasses to get involved, and it sounds like Jewell was instrumental in providing leadership on the defense. I don't think some of you understand how little time the offense spends together as a whole (and especially how little the 'team' spends together) as they watch film in their groups, run their drills in their 'groups', etc.. so leadership has to come from the different groups as much as anything. That's why the backs talked about Canzeri so much, and the DB's talked about what a great leader Lomax was, etc...
This coming from someone who has a picture of Stewie for his icon, bahahaha. Good grief....where do you dolts come from? Is there one couple in the woods of northern iowa pumping you all out, lol... It's a message board Peter. It's cheap entertainment, and you certainly are adding to that...now go back to playing pokemon and watching game of thrones and leave the adults to talk...........
I buy that. 2014 was disappointing, and maybe that was more on the Seniors than on JR. CJB is more fun to watch because of his improvisation (and yes I realize Jake did have some nice runs) and as you put it "rock star" personality. I think that rubs off on the team, and when you are having fun, things are easier. I guess I'm saying I still believe the team was better off with CJB, and Jake was better off at Michigan. Win/Win for everybody.
AdamHawk
Well-Known Member
You may be an adult but you clearly haven't grown up yet. You obviously hold yourself in high regard even if that's for nothing more than degrading a thread down to childish name calling. Halfway intelligent people are actually able of proving a point without throwing temper tantrums and calling people idiots. I'm sure it's enjoyable for you but unfortunately I'm not as easily amused.
Back to the topic at hand, Jake was a quality QB but he had his shortcomings just like anyone else. He was able to read defenses and often times checked into better situations but he was also frustratingly conservative. Almost every single time he checked down it was into a run play which often times led to short gains. CJ on the other hand was much more aggressive from day one (sometimes to a fault) as he wanted to try to thread the needle with some of his passes and make the highlight play instead of the safe one. Clearly they both had their strengths and weaknesses and maybe were fairly even at the time of the switch but the coaches felt that CJ had the higher ceiling, especially since he had an extra year of eligibility. I don't think either QB is too upset with how things played out as Jake is in the NFL and CJ is coming off a 12 win season.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
JR is the type of player that coaches gravitate to. He is extremely smart, knows what the coaches want, and does that well. CJ is a player that players gravitate to. I'm not saying the players didn't like JR, but they certainly liked/like CJ much better. From everything I have heard JR was more aloof, whereas CJ is more just a guys guy.
I think the message from the coaches and Players was they didn't have good LEADERSHIP in '14. I don't think I ever heard anyone (players or coaches) say that it was SENIOR leadership. It was a less than subtle message that the leadership from the QB position was lacking. Now granted with their always being a question of who was going to play and how much it is tough to lead in that position.
When people say we would have won more with CJ, they aren't saying Jake was "the" problem. They are simply saying better players give you a better chance to win. CJ is a difference maker and Jake wasn't. I can acknowledge we would be a better team if we could replace King with Richard Sherman without it meaning I think King was the problem. In a year with so many close losses, a slightly better player (especially at qb) can be just enough to change losses to wins.
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
I liked, still like JR. That said, I don't believe we win 12 games last year with him as starter. I remember 3 games that CJ made some plays with his legs that likely saved the game. Something JR just didn't quite have. JR obviously had something going as he got a look in the NFL. I don't know unequivocally that CJ is that much "better", but I think he's better for the Hawks and the offense as it is/was.
Maybe he wasn't quite ready in '14, maybe he bloomed in practice by the end of '14, only the coaches know that. But there was a reason he was named starter before the '15 season. I'd say it was a good call.
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We'll never know. Watch the Michigan-Indiana game though and watch how JR saved the game with his legs?.......You are correct, the TEAM won 12 games with CJ as the starter. So when I owa won games it was because of CJ and when they lost the last 2 games it was other peoples fault (probably the coaches), right? You guys put too much emphasis on the QB for wins and losses. The players don't and neither do the coaches......
