CJB...

[HawkeyeWalker]

We'll never know. Watch the Michigan-Indiana game though and watch how JR saved the game with his legs?.......You are correct, the TEAM won 12 games with CJ as the starter. So when I owa won games it was because of CJ and when they lost the last 2 games it was other peoples fault (probably the coaches), right? You guys put too much emphasis on the QB for wins and losses. The players don't and neither do the coaches......

In college football, QB can make a lot of difference. Hey, just my opinion, but I don't believe we go 12-0 with JR last year. I liked, and defended JR, but believe CJ added a couple dimensions, apparently, so did the coaches.

 

[Ickehawk]

In college football, QB can make a lot of difference. Hey, just my opinion, but I don't believe we go 12-0 with JR last year. I liked, and defended JR, but believe CJ added a couple dimensions, apparently, so did the coaches.

Well, up until a couple years ago, I 'believed' in Santa Claus. Doesn't make it real. And we have no way of knowing or even speculating about something that didn't happen, so what is the point? People seem to think I don't like CJ or think he's a good QB, but that's not what we're debating...............And I'm really over this conversation, so have a good night....

 

[PCHawk]

We'll never know. Watch the Michigan-Indiana game though and watch how JR saved the game with his legs?.......You are correct, the TEAM won 12 games with CJ as the starter. So when I owa won games it was because of CJ and when they lost the last 2 games it was other peoples fault (probably the coaches), right? You guys put too much emphasis on the QB for wins and losses. The players don't and neither do the coaches......

In my opinion (not an absolute) you put too little emphasis on the qb. It's by far the most important position on the team. A slight upgrade at that position increases your chances of winning a close game. Since we had a lot of close games in '14 and in those games, the qb left a lot of plays on the field (so did other players) it stands to reason that there is a good chance we would have won some of those close games with a playmaker at qb. It is also pretty clear by now that CJ is pretty darn good at making plays. Again this is just my opinion but if you disagree with it you're wrong and stupid.

 

[thetrza]

See Jay Be.

 

[BigD]

In my opinion (not an absolute) you put too little emphasis on the qb. It's by far the most important position on the team. A slight upgrade at that position increases your chances of winning a close game. Since we had a lot of close games in '14 and in those games, the qb left a lot of plays on the field (so did other players) it stands to reason that there is a good chance we would have won some of those close games with a playmaker at qb. It is also pretty clear by now that CJ is pretty darn good at making plays. Again this is just my opinion but if you disagree with it you're wrong and stupid.

I couldn't agree more with everything you said excluding the last sentence. I'd be more worried about anyone agreeing with all of my opinions.

 

[deanvogs]

In my opinion (not an absolute) you put too little emphasis on the qb. It's by far the most important position on the team. A slight upgrade at that position increases your chances of winning a close game. Since we had a lot of close games in '14 and in those games, the qb left a lot of plays on the field (so did other players) it stands to reason that there is a good chance we would have won some of those close games with a playmaker at qb. It is also pretty clear by now that CJ is pretty darn good at making plays. Again this is just my opinion but if you disagree with it you're wrong and stupid.

I agree PC. When you have a better QB, it exponentially makes the entire offense better. Just making a throw or run to extend a drive that the other QB couldn't make is HUGE. That is just one drive for example. For instance CJ play just to get out of the endzone on a sack was basically the play of the ISU game. That 1 yard was the difference between being down 12-3 and punting the ball to ISU, to keeping the ball and eventually scoring a TD on a 99 yard drive after that play.

I think Icke knows this, but he is correct, we can never know for certain (yet what in life is absolute?) that our record changes with Jake. What we do know is that Jake led us to 8-5 and 6-6 (CJ was the Purdue game win QB) seasons. So he was just slightly over .500 at 14-11 as a starter. CJ is already 13-2 as a starter and after this year will absolutely blow away Jakes winning %. Right or wrong ultimately QB's are judged by W/L's.

 

[PCHawk]

I agree PC. When you have a better QB, it exponentially makes the entire offense better. Just making a throw or run to extend a drive that the other QB couldn't make is HUGE. That is just one drive for example. For instance CJ play just to get out of the endzone on a sack was basically the play of the ISU game. That 1 yard was the difference between being down 12-3 and punting the ball to ISU, to keeping the ball and eventually scoring a TD on a 99 yard drive after that play.

I think Icke knows this, but he is correct, we can never know for certain (yet what in life is absolute?) that our record changes with Jake. What we do know is that Jake led us to 8-5 and 6-6 (CJ was the Purdue game win QB) seasons. So he was just slightly over .500 at 14-11 as a starter. CJ is already 13-2 as a starter and after this year will absolutely blow away Jakes winning %. Right or wrong ultimately QB's are judged by W/L's.

I think we can be pretty certain we don't go 8-4 in 08 and 10-2 in 09 with JC at qb.

 

[Ickehawk]

In my opinion (not an absolute) you put too little emphasis on the qb. It's by far the most important position on the team. A slight upgrade at that position increases your chances of winning a close game. Since we had a lot of close games in '14 and in those games, the qb left a lot of plays on the field (so did other players) it stands to reason that there is a good chance we would have won some of those close games with a playmaker at qb. It is also pretty clear by now that CJ is pretty darn good at making plays. Again this is just my opinion but if you disagree with it you're wrong and stupid.

I like you PC. We would get along well. In person you would probably laugh at my smart ass remarks. You guys sure like to speculate about coulda, woulda, shoulda....I find it counter productive....have a good day!

 

[HawkGold]

Is CJ really that much better than JR as a QB? Quick release and the intangibles for sure. The biggest difference is when the play breaks down away from the original plan and the 2nd alternative. CJ is very aware of the field and making quick decision.

We know from last year the JR was more than an adequate qb in skill and could have been better. The Hawks have their best years under KF when they have a QB who is willing and able to create when things break down. The defense doesn't change much from year to year. I would not describe the Iowa defense as creative (excepting Norm Parker sometimes like against GT).

We will never know for sure why some QBs for the Hawks are better at creativity. Skill and personality? Likely. Coaching expectations? I personally think some players are more willing to get into a coach's face than others. JC, JR, and VB were not so willing. BB I think wanted to be what was expected of him, but his instincts (wow what instincts) inevitably told him to break out and run...with great results.

Tate was the ultimate do what I wanna do qb. He was exciting and maddening all in one. His number of tds and ints were incredible. Even his most famous play, maybe the biggest in Iowa history was exciting and maddening.

If CJ remains healthy, this will be one heck of an exciting year. If he's hurt significantly, then it depends entirely on the back up. His back up likely has talent based on the past. How the back up expresses that talent will be key if CJ goes down

Interestingly, one of JC's knocks at Iowa was his arm strength. When at EIU he was considered as one of the strongest arms they ever had and they've had some strong arms as seen in the NFL. Players have different personalities and respond differently to the coach.

CJ is a gamer. Let's hope he stays healthy. His style isn't exactly very promising at staying healthy.

A healthy CJ and Iowa will be playing somewhere really nice in January.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I like you PC. We would get along well. In person you would probably laugh at my smart ass remarks. You guys sure like to speculate about coulda, woulda, shoulda....I find it counter productive....have a good day!

coulda, woulda, shoulda....on an internet fan site message board? that's just crazy talk.

 

[PCHawk]

I like you PC. We would get along well. In person you would probably laugh at my smart ass remarks. You guys sure like to speculate about coulda, woulda, shoulda....I find it counter productive....have a good day!

If you're really just being a smart as it sure doesn't come off that way. Hard to tell sometimes over text tho. I love discussing what ifs tho. Especially during years where we were so close like '02, '08 and '09. I can what if the hell out of last year's MSU game all day.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I'm not going to dig up the interviews of both players and coaches who commented on CJ'S leadership, but to me that was a big difference between 2014 and 2015,. So the team thought CJ was a great leader, that is fact. I guess my statement that his leadership played a big role in the improvement I guess is just my opinion, but certainly not mine alone.

ZERO argument from me on that. I just agree with Icke on the fact that 2014 wasn't a "JR" problem.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

One thing I brought up--and everyone seems to ignore--with regard to JR having a better year at Michigan: it wasn't the coaching, it was his health.

He took the whole Spring off. IF CJB had the whole Spring to recover, we wouldn't even be questioning his "current" health (knowing that any type of injury can happen once the season is underway).

Interestingly, the 40 times for JR and CJB are pretty similar. You'd never guess that just watching them. But CJB literally "saved" the first half of the Iowa State game, preventing it from (possibly) getting away from us. Not sure JR pulls that off.

 

[PCHawk]

ZERO argument from me on that. I just agree with Icke on the fact that 2014 wasn't a "JR" problem.

I think JR went a little too extreme with making the safe play. It did seem like he went so quickly to the check down that he wasn't even trying anything else.

As far as 40 times go, it's lateral movement that allows CJ to make the plays he does with his feet. He is surprisingly shifty.

 

[Joshbrown]

ZERO argument from me on that. I just agree with Icke on the fact that 2014 wasn't a "JR" problem.

First off I wanna say I never saw JR as a bad QB. Just not as good as CJB. Which is another way of saying "not as many wins with one QB vs the other."

3 questions.

First) In your opinion what was the problem?

Second) Assuming you're right about JR, then what do you feel motivated Kirk to demote him shortly after the season ended?

Third) Do you believe that if coaches get credit for great years then they should also get credit for under-performing years?

 

[PCHawk]

First off I wanna say I never saw JR as a bad QB. Just not as good as CJB. Which is another way of saying "not as many wins with one QB vs the other."

3 questions.

First) In your opinion what was the problem?

Second) Assuming you're right about JR, then what do you feel motivated Kirk to demote him shortly after the season ended?

Third) Do you believe that if coaches get credit for great years then they should also get credit for under-performing years?

The way I see it is every team has problems somewhere every year, but there isn't anything you can do about most of your problems. So when someone says "our problem was punt return" or "our problem was defense", there isn't anything you can do about those problems because you're playing with the players you have. There's no quick fix. That's why I point to the qb because there was something that could have been done about that.

The qb position was better than a lot of other positions that helped lose games, but there wasn't anything that could be done about those positions. One quick decision could have upgraded the most important position on the field. Rudock wasn't "the" problem. He was the one problem that could have been fixed.

 

[ChosenChildren]

CJB (when healthy) is a better runner than Rudock. I also saw a lot more poise in the pocket. He has those intangibles as well. Was Rudock a good QB? Yes. But I think CJB is better, and he'll prove it this year if he stays healthy.

 

[deanvogs]

CJB (when healthy) is a better runner than Rudock. I also saw a lot more poise in the pocket. He has those intangibles as well. Was Rudock a good QB? Yes. But I think CJB is better, and he'll prove it this year if he stays healthy.

You bring up a great point I had forgotten about. Jake always had happy feet in the pocket. CJ on the other had many times would actually stand in the pocket too long and wait til the last second to throw a ball, and he would get hit hard because of it quite often.

 

[PCHawk]

You bring up a great point I had forgotten about. Jake always had happy feet in the pocket. CJ on the other had many times would actually stand in the pocket too long and wait til the last second to throw a ball, and he would get hit hard because of it quite often.

I'm not sure we win either Pitt game the last two years without him standing in the pocket. Of course there is no way to know that for sure.

 

[ChosenChildren]

I'm not sure we win either Pitt game the last two years without him standing in the pocket. Of course there is no way to know that for sure.

Agree 100%. He converted so many difficult third downs last year!!! Remember the Indiana game, throwing against his body and threading the needle on a third and long to keep a TD drive alive late in the game? I never saw Rudock do that