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[BryceC]

I'll never understand telling the coach/AD but not going to the police. Seems to me it's an all or nothing decision.

I'll never understand a coach not just handing the matter off the police instantly.

 

[Fryowa]

I'll never understand telling the coach/AD but not going to the police. Seems to me it's an all or nothing decision.

It's actually quite understandable.

When you're an extremely successful coach, it hurts your program unless you cover it up. Not morally right, but understanding why they do it is easy.

 

[lightning1]

I'll never understand a coach not just handing the matter off the police instantly.

They can't. The victim has to file a charge.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

I agree with that statement. My post was more to demonstrate that our own house isn't even in order, and those are just the things that we outsiders know about. Before anyone goes on a board slamming MSU fans it would be good to remember that...

1) Hawkeye fans would do the exact same thing if KF and Fran were as successful as Dantonio and Izzo. Like @SpiderRico mentioned above, it's human nature.

2) Iowa and any other major school is just one OTL report away from being chin deep in shit.

Oh, I know. I wasn't directing that at you per se. Just wanted to point out that the degree of an infraction matters when looking at the big picture and making comparisions.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Absolutely. Anyone not concerned about the transparency at Iowa is in the sand.

The Doyle award was a huge red flag.

Anyone that truly believes Iowa is lilly-white is fooling themselves. having said that, I damn sure would want due process before declared guilty, so I don't think it's wearing blinders for MSU fans that are demanding due process. However, if they expect the world to take the two head coaches "word for it" that's just delusional.

 

[HawkGold]

Anyone that truly believes Iowa is lilly-white is fooling themselves. having said that, I damn sure would want due process before declared guilty, so I don't think it's wearing blinders for MSU fans that are demanding due process. However, if they expect the world to take the two head coaches "word for it" that's just delusional.

Of course. However, the issue at MSU is proper due process. PSU is looking saintly on this compared to MSU. PSU did hand over the documents. MSU maintains there are not documents basically from an investigation. Either one is problematic.

Like it or not, KF peed on the public with that award.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Of course. However, the issue at MSU is proper due process. PSU is looking saintly on this compared to MSU. PSU did hand over the documents. MSU maintains there are not documents basically from an investigation. Either one is problematic.

Like it or not, KF peed on the public with that award.

I honestly haven't been following the MSU situation at all. I'm just kind of tired with these things happening so often.

 

[Xerxes]

I got to see some of his post game Friday but not yesterday. Did he just say the same thing about not answering anything specific? Or did he deny deny deny like Dantonio did?

Izzo looked like a man beaten in his post game interview after the Maryland game yesterday. That was the most depressed coach I've ever seen from a team that came back from a double digit deficit on the road.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Anyone that truly believes Iowa is lilly-white is fooling themselves. having said that, I damn sure would want due process before declared guilty, so I don't think it's wearing blinders for MSU fans that are demanding due process. However, if they expect the world to take the two head coaches "word for it" that's just delusional.

Right on, we are far from Lilly-white. We have a track record of discriminating against lesbians by give them $175,000 a year jobs to do very little, because no one wanted to work with them in the athletic department. That level of mistreatment does fall slightly below gang rapes though. I'm going to go on the record that KF ain't gonna keep that athlete on the team or try to protect them...they are shown the door immediate and notification of the proper authorities is in order. No way what is being alleged is happening with KF in control. He may screw up clock management and punt on fourth and one too often, but protecting rapists isn't in his wheelhouse.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Right on, we are far from Lilly-white. We have a track record of discriminating against lesbians by give them $175,000 a year jobs to do very little, because no one wanted to work with them in the athletic department. That level of mistreatment does fall slightly below gang rapes though. I'm going to go on the record that KF ain't gonna keep that athlete on the team or try to protect them...they are shown the door immediate and notification of the proper authorities is in order. No way what is being alleged is happening with KF in control. He may screw up clock management and punt on fourth and one too often, but protecting rapists isn't in his wheelhouse.

Huh....so, you mention kirk, but not fran, or brands or the baseball coach. Some could call that a freudian slip.

I did notice some anger against lesbians in your post.

 

[lightning1]

Right on, we are far from Lilly-white. We have a track record of discriminating against lesbians by give them $175,000 a year jobs to do very little, because no one wanted to work with them in the athletic department. That level of mistreatment does fall slightly below gang rapes though. I'm going to go on the record that KF ain't gonna keep that athlete on the team or try to protect them...they are shown the door immediate and notification of the proper authorities is in order. No way what is being alleged is happening with KF in control. He may screw up clock management and punt on fourth and one too often, but protecting rapists isn't in his wheelhouse.

But it DID happen with KF at the controls, in 2007. The article is linked in this very thread.

 

[homes]

But it DID happen with KF at the controls, in 2007. The article is linked in this very thread.

I wasn't that close to the case while it was happening. I went back and read a few articles; however, my caveat is I'm not that well versed in the subject. One of the articles said that when it was first presented to Kirk, that Everson lied to Kirk about what happened - not surprising.

This is from Marc Morehouse, who reports that Everson and Satterfield were suspended before the Purdue game which was the following Saturday, Oct. 20, not a month later.

I remember walking by Cedric Everson on the Tuesday BEFORE the Purdue game. This would've been in the days after the Oct. 14 incident. We were just wrapping up Tuesday's news conference. Players report for practice and meetings at roughly 3 p.m. We run often run into each other on the way in or out.

I distinctly remember the look on Everson's face. I've run into a few players before big meetings with Ferentz at the Hayden Fry Football Complex. I remember back in '99, when sophomore tight end Eric Steinbach waited outside Ferentz's office. He didn't look happy. This was the meeting where Ferentz would suggest that it was time to play offensive line. Steinbach didn't embrace it, at least initially. Now, he's a millionaire guard for the Cleveland Browns.

Presumably, these were Cedric Everson's last minutes as an Iowa Hawkeye and, probably, a Division I football player. The look on his face showed it. He was going to have to answer for something. It started to come out on the Thursday before Purdue, when The Gazette started calling UI Police to see if anything was up with Everson or Abe Satterfield.

Everson and Satterfield were removed from the team.

Ferentz deserves credit for this, especially this season.

Check the Big Ten. Arrests and felonies and misdemeanors ran around fields everywhere this season, specifically Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan State. I'm sure I'm missing a few.

Ferentz acted quickly and decisively. Dominique Douglas and Anthony Bowman were gone. Clint Huntrods, gone. Dana Brown, gone. Everson and Satterfield, gone. You could reasonably argue that Ferentz did lean on the process with Douglas and Bowman. He didn't immediately boot them from the team. But he also didn't let them play while the court process churned.

He could've leaned on the cops and courts and "let justice take its course," but he took these guys off the field and out of practice. He took the ambiguity out of it. They no longer represented the University of Iowa in a football sense, on a football field, on ESPN or the Big Ten Network.

The Iowa football team is a citizen of the University of Iowa. UI football players committed crimes against members of their community this year. They were taken out of the community.

That needs to be noted.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The term "not in good standing" became part of the Iowa football lexicon last October.

This is an article written by Steve Batterson in June 2008:

CHICAGO — Defiant Kirk Ferentz rejects the notion that he or anyone else connected with the Iowa football program attempted to “brush aside” allegations made by the mother of a victim in a sexual assault case involving two Iowa football players.

“You can question my ability to coach, you can question my decisions during a game, you can question a lot of things, but to question my character, I take exception to that,” Ferentz said Thursday at the Big Ten’s annual football kickoff.

The 10th-year Iowa coach spoke publicly for the first time since the Iowa Board of Regents voted to reopen an investigation into the university’s handling of the matter.


Regents took that action Tuesday after learning two letters sent by the mother of the female involved in the alleged incident had not been forwarded to the Regents as part of their earlier investigation.

The first of two letters sent by the parent was detailed in a copyright story by the Iowa City Press-Citizen last weekend, alleging athletic department members wanted to keep the matter in house to avoid publicity.

“Anybody involved in a coverup would have to be morally bankrupt,” Ferentz said.

Two former Iowa football players, Abe Satterfield and Cedric Everson, are accused of sexually assaulting a female Iowa athlete in a university dormitory in October, 2007.

Everson has been charged with second-degree sexual assault, while Satterfield was charged with second- and third-degree sexual assault.

The two players were withheld from team activities immediately once Ferentz learned of accusations and were later suspended from the team. Both transferred from Iowa at the end of the fall semester.

Ferentz said as football coach, he does not possess the power to revoke an athlete’s scholarship, remove an athlete from school or even remove an athlete from a dormitory.

“I acted on the things a football coach can act on,” Ferentz said. “There was not much more any of us could do or could have done from a coaching standpoint. We took action based on the information available to us.“

He confirmed Thursday that he and director of athletics Gary Barta were among those attending a meeting with the victim within 36 hours after the alleged incident occurred.

“I was uncomfortable being there, but at the time we walked away feeling it was a very productive meeting,” Ferentz said.

Although university policy does not require his attendance, Ferentz said he did so at the insistence of the involved female.

“My actions, at every step of the way, have been done in the interest of concern for the young woman and her family,” Ferentz said. “I think the proper steps were followed every step of the way.”

The father of two college-age daughters, Ferentz said he is sensitive to the type of situation he found himself talking about Thursday.

“This is the stickiest type of situation that a coach deals with, the most unsavory and most distasteful,” he said. “This is first time I have been involved with one and I hope it is the last.”

Ferentz isn’t surprised the general conduct of the Hawkeyes team is under a microscope.

“We’ve opened the door for the type of attention we’ve received,” Ferentz said. “Some of it has been fair, some of it hasn’t, but you can expect negative reporting when the reports are being written about negative behavior.“

A total of 18 Iowa football players have been arrested on 23 offenses in Johnson County since April 2007, including 11 alcohol-related changes.

Hawkeyes involved in incidents since March 1 are subject to stiffer punishments.

That includes incoming freshman Riley Reiff, who was charged with public intoxication and interference with official acts early Saturday after leading eight Iowa City police officers on a 20-minute foot chase through downtown Iowa City shortly after police received a call concerning a man sitting in an alley clothed only in his underwear, according to police reports.

“It’s fair to say his incident is being treated a lot differently than it would have been if it had occurred a year ago. The punishment, it will hurt a lot more,” said Ferentz, declining to discuss specifics.


The following comes from an article in the San Diego newspaper, which I think was picking up an AP story:

"A subsequent independent investigation found no evidence of a cover-up by Athletic Director Gary Barta or football Coach Kirk Ferentz. The probe found Barta told the woman she could change her mind at any time and notify law enforcement, and Ferentz took the most stringent disciplinary action he could by suspending the players, who later transferred to other schools.

But the investigation found other university officials showed poor judgment, and the university's confusing policies and procedures upset the victim, who also transferred.

UI President Sally Mason fired Dean of Students Phil Jones after the investigation faulted him for failing to move the victim and players involved into separate residence halls and responding weakly when she was harassed. Mason fired UI General Counsel Marcus Mills for failing to turn over the letters and other documents before the victim's mother made them public. Jones and Mills have defended their actions and filed lawsuits alleging wrongful termination."

It's not clear to me what exactly happened at that time. I'm not discounting anything, this is just what I've read that puts some of these points in issue. It can be concluded that more should have been done, but at least from the independent report, it appears Ferentz followed whatever the policies and procedures were at the time - stepping beyond those can lead to problems - he has to rely on others doing their job. The UI dropped the ball. The parents of the young woman were no doubt upset, rightfully so, and hearing about policies and procedures means nothing to them when they're trying to get to the bottom of this, from anybody and everybody who will listen. Agreed, the UI does not have a pristine history when it comes to handling criminal conduct, particularly sexual conduct. A question is whether the UI has learned from this experience. I still like to believe they have.

 

[tksirius]

They are criticizing everyone that has questions about the Spartans handling of the sexual abuse allegations and cases. Those people are absolutely tone-deaf. Reminds me of the PED state Fiasco. They're definitely circling the wagons.

Anyone that heard Izzo talk about the situation today has to wonder what in the hell is he thinking? It was one of the most uncomfortable Q&A I've ever heard. You can tell he knows the end is near.

How much longer do we have to wait to see some action?

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Of course. However, the issue at MSU is proper due process. PSU is looking saintly on this compared to MSU. PSU did hand over the documents. MSU maintains there are not documents basically from an investigation. Either one is problematic.

Like it or not, KF peed on the public with that award.

You do fine, then bring Doyle's award into it. Constantly. Why? It has ZERO to do with this particular case, ZERO to do with sexual harassment.

 

[HawkGold]

You do fine, then bring Doyle's award into it. Constantly. Why? It has ZERO to do with this particular case, ZERO to do with sexual harassment.

Why not? Tell me how the award makes sense at that time except to say ...dibt toych this...I approve. 12 players lost their career. 12. 12 12 12.

And he gives an award. The mentality is the same. Rabdo is life threatening and he comes up with that. Same mentality.

This type of thing was all over college sports. Privilege. Power.

 

[DDThompson]

You do fine, then bring Doyle's award into it. Constantly. Why? It has ZERO to do with this particular case, ZERO to do with sexual harassment.

Professional jealousy.

 

[DDThompson]

I wasn't that close to the case while it was happening. I went back and read a few articles; however, my caveat is I'm not that well versed in the subject. One of the articles said that when it was first presented to Kirk, that Everson lied to Kirk about what happened - not surprising.

This is from Marc Morehouse, who reports that Everson and Satterfield were suspended before the Purdue game which was the following Saturday, Oct. 20, not a month later.

I remember walking by Cedric Everson on the Tuesday BEFORE the Purdue game. This would've been in the days after the Oct. 14 incident. We were just wrapping up Tuesday's news conference. Players report for practice and meetings at roughly 3 p.m. We run often run into each other on the way in or out.

I distinctly remember the look on Everson's face. I've run into a few players before big meetings with Ferentz at the Hayden Fry Football Complex. I remember back in '99, when sophomore tight end Eric Steinbach waited outside Ferentz's office. He didn't look happy. This was the meeting where Ferentz would suggest that it was time to play offensive line. Steinbach didn't embrace it, at least initially. Now, he's a millionaire guard for the Cleveland Browns.

Presumably, these were Cedric Everson's last minutes as an Iowa Hawkeye and, probably, a Division I football player. The look on his face showed it. He was going to have to answer for something. It started to come out on the Thursday before Purdue, when The Gazette started calling UI Police to see if anything was up with Everson or Abe Satterfield.

Everson and Satterfield were removed from the team.

Ferentz deserves credit for this, especially this season.

Check the Big Ten. Arrests and felonies and misdemeanors ran around fields everywhere this season, specifically Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan State. I'm sure I'm missing a few.

Ferentz acted quickly and decisively. Dominique Douglas and Anthony Bowman were gone. Clint Huntrods, gone. Dana Brown, gone. Everson and Satterfield, gone. You could reasonably argue that Ferentz did lean on the process with Douglas and Bowman. He didn't immediately boot them from the team. But he also didn't let them play while the court process churned.

He could've leaned on the cops and courts and "let justice take its course," but he took these guys off the field and out of practice. He took the ambiguity out of it. They no longer represented the University of Iowa in a football sense, on a football field, on ESPN or the Big Ten Network.

The Iowa football team is a citizen of the University of Iowa. UI football players committed crimes against members of their community this year. They were taken out of the community.

That needs to be noted.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The term "not in good standing" became part of the Iowa football lexicon last October.

This is an article written by Steve Batterson in June 2008:

CHICAGO — Defiant Kirk Ferentz rejects the notion that he or anyone else connected with the Iowa football program attempted to “brush aside” allegations made by the mother of a victim in a sexual assault case involving two Iowa football players.

“You can question my ability to coach, you can question my decisions during a game, you can question a lot of things, but to question my character, I take exception to that,” Ferentz said Thursday at the Big Ten’s annual football kickoff.

The 10th-year Iowa coach spoke publicly for the first time since the Iowa Board of Regents voted to reopen an investigation into the university’s handling of the matter.


Regents took that action Tuesday after learning two letters sent by the mother of the female involved in the alleged incident had not been forwarded to the Regents as part of their earlier investigation.

The first of two letters sent by the parent was detailed in a copyright story by the Iowa City Press-Citizen last weekend, alleging athletic department members wanted to keep the matter in house to avoid publicity.

“Anybody involved in a coverup would have to be morally bankrupt,” Ferentz said.

Two former Iowa football players, Abe Satterfield and Cedric Everson, are accused of sexually assaulting a female Iowa athlete in a university dormitory in October, 2007.

Everson has been charged with second-degree sexual assault, while Satterfield was charged with second- and third-degree sexual assault.

The two players were withheld from team activities immediately once Ferentz learned of accusations and were later suspended from the team. Both transferred from Iowa at the end of the fall semester.

Ferentz said as football coach, he does not possess the power to revoke an athlete’s scholarship, remove an athlete from school or even remove an athlete from a dormitory.

“I acted on the things a football coach can act on,” Ferentz said. “There was not much more any of us could do or could have done from a coaching standpoint. We took action based on the information available to us.“

He confirmed Thursday that he and director of athletics Gary Barta were among those attending a meeting with the victim within 36 hours after the alleged incident occurred.

“I was uncomfortable being there, but at the time we walked away feeling it was a very productive meeting,” Ferentz said.

Although university policy does not require his attendance, Ferentz said he did so at the insistence of the involved female.

“My actions, at every step of the way, have been done in the interest of concern for the young woman and her family,” Ferentz said. “I think the proper steps were followed every step of the way.”

The father of two college-age daughters, Ferentz said he is sensitive to the type of situation he found himself talking about Thursday.

“This is the stickiest type of situation that a coach deals with, the most unsavory and most distasteful,” he said. “This is first time I have been involved with one and I hope it is the last.”

Ferentz isn’t surprised the general conduct of the Hawkeyes team is under a microscope.

“We’ve opened the door for the type of attention we’ve received,” Ferentz said. “Some of it has been fair, some of it hasn’t, but you can expect negative reporting when the reports are being written about negative behavior.“

A total of 18 Iowa football players have been arrested on 23 offenses in Johnson County since April 2007, including 11 alcohol-related changes.

Hawkeyes involved in incidents since March 1 are subject to stiffer punishments.

That includes incoming freshman Riley Reiff, who was charged with public intoxication and interference with official acts early Saturday after leading eight Iowa City police officers on a 20-minute foot chase through downtown Iowa City shortly after police received a call concerning a man sitting in an alley clothed only in his underwear, according to police reports.

“It’s fair to say his incident is being treated a lot differently than it would have been if it had occurred a year ago. The punishment, it will hurt a lot more,” said Ferentz, declining to discuss specifics.


The following comes from an article in the San Diego newspaper, which I think was picking up an AP story:

"A subsequent independent investigation found no evidence of a cover-up by Athletic Director Gary Barta or football Coach Kirk Ferentz. The probe found Barta told the woman she could change her mind at any time and notify law enforcement, and Ferentz took the most stringent disciplinary action he could by suspending the players, who later transferred to other schools.

But the investigation found other university officials showed poor judgment, and the university's confusing policies and procedures upset the victim, who also transferred.

UI President Sally Mason fired Dean of Students Phil Jones after the investigation faulted him for failing to move the victim and players involved into separate residence halls and responding weakly when she was harassed. Mason fired UI General Counsel Marcus Mills for failing to turn over the letters and other documents before the victim's mother made them public. Jones and Mills have defended their actions and filed lawsuits alleging wrongful termination."

It's not clear to me what exactly happened at that time. I'm not discounting anything, this is just what I've read that puts some of these points in issue. It can be concluded that more should have been done, but at least from the independent report, it appears Ferentz followed whatever the policies and procedures were at the time - stepping beyond those can lead to problems - he has to rely on others doing their job. The UI dropped the ball. The parents of the young woman were no doubt upset, rightfully so, and hearing about policies and procedures means nothing to them when they're trying to get to the bottom of this, from anybody and everybody who will listen. Agreed, the UI does not have a pristine history when it comes to handling criminal conduct, particularly sexual conduct. A question is whether the UI has learned from this experience. I still like to believe they have.

It’s preferred article titles are sufficient to make conclusions and certainly to not read beyond the first paragraph.

Memories are sufficient to condemn other people.

And here you went and did others’ homework for them. Stop this now.

 

[homes]

Why not? Tell me how the award makes sense at that time except to say ...dibt toych this...I approve. 12 players lost their career. 12. 12 12 12.

And he gives an award. The mentality is the same. Rabdo is life threatening and he comes up with that. Same mentality.

This type of thing was all over college sports. Privilege. Power.

I interpreted the award to Doyle that year as a loyalty thing, a have-your-back acknowledgement. I didn't think that was necessary to give him an award, particularly that year - not a shining moment in Doyle's otherwise respectable career. He wasn't getting fired, that was loyalty enough. The PR from it wasn't good, in fact it was bad. But the Iowa athletic department and PR are like oil and water a lot of times.

The reports provide there were 13 players involved, not 12. The only names revealed, by their own volition, were William Lowe, Jim Poggi and Shane DiBona. According to reports Poggi had a season ending shoulder surgery in 2011, and then left the program due to persistent injury issues. According to news reports, Shane DiBona missed the 2011 season due to an Achilles injury and then eventually gave up football due to a severe concussion. I believe Lowe never came back, and I haven't read anything to suggest it was any other injury. I know a lawsuit was settled in 2016 for something like $15K. I'm not certain of the fates of the other 10 players - I don't know who they were. I just don't think it's accurate to say that 12 (13) players lost their careers to Rhabdo, some may, Lowe being one.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I interpreted the award to Doyle that year as a loyalty thing, a have-your-back acknowledgement. I didn't think that was necessary to give him an award, particularly that year - not a shining moment in Doyle's otherwise respectable career. He wasn't getting fired, that was loyalty enough. The PR from it wasn't good, in fact it was bad. But the Iowa athletic department and PR are like oil and water a lot of times.

The reports provide there were 13 players involved, not 12. The only names revealed, by their own volition, were William Lowe, Jim Poggi and Shane DiBona. According to reports Poggi had a season ending shoulder surgery in 2011, and then left the program due to persistent injury issues. According to news reports, Shane DiBona missed the 2011 season due to an Achilles injury and then eventually gave up football due to a severe concussion. I believe Lowe never came back, and I haven't read anything to suggest it was any other injury. I know a lawsuit was settled in 2016 for something like $15K. I'm not certain of the fates of the other 10 players - I don't know who they were. I just don't think it's accurate to say that 12 (13) players lost their careers to Rhabdo, some may, Lowe being one.

Not to mention Lowe wasn't exactly rocketing up the depth chart.

There was a lot of info out about several players "overindulging" in the the days leading up to the workout. It wasn't a new workout (had been done for years). Yet, a few folks want to criminalize it.

 

[Adam]

Not defending MSU in any way, shape, or form, but I hope you guys all know that these kinds of things happen at every university with a major sports program. It’s 100% wrong and people who do it should be tossed in the river, not jail...

However, P5 football and basketball players are treated like rock stars by both staff and students alike, and their larger than life personas give them way more assumed power and “untouchableness” than any other students. They’re put on a pedestal and literally think they can get away with anything (and they usually do).

I’m going on record as saying that if you don’t think these things happen in Iowa City then you’re head is in the sand. If you don’t like the thought of it that’s fine, I don’t either...but you’re ignorant. Iowa and any other schools are only different in that they didn’t have a Larry Nassar in the program to open the flood gates.

Let’s not get on our high horses here and shout to the world that no one’s ever been sexually assaulted by an athlete at Iowa and the athlete allowed to continue. That’s a good way to end up eating crow.

I agree with parts of your statement.

Quite obviously it would be futile to act, think or believe that the University of Iowa does not contain children and young adults that are capable of monstrous acts against other humans. It is futile to deny that the ratio of student athletes committing crimes is much higher than the regular student body. These are trends displayed across the entire nation. Our main divergence comes from your implied notion that we have a plethora of covered up events. I simply do not believe this to be true.

I will admit that Iowa is just as guilty as any University in their deceitful practice of trying to keep bad instances "in house" and not let the information flow freely to the media. That practice is an archaic mindset that seems to generally plague the hallowed halls around the country and possibly the world. I really wish that it would go away and that honesty and integrity were placed above some trumped up pristine reputation.

That said I believe that Iowa football is actually quite progressive in the area of cutting ties and stepping aside for due process. I support this with the evidence of previous actions. Looking at football alone. DJK was criminally charged. Coker was ran out amidst allegations of sexual misconduct. Robinson was ran out for continual run in's with the law. Snyder was suspended for charges. Faith was detained for suspicion of robbery. Douglas was gone for his crimes. Abe and Cedric were gone for theirs. Countless public intox's over the years. Scooter violations. All of these prove that the Iowa City police barley know who these kids are, don't care that much about their importance to a football team, and don't pull their punches. The culture in place at Iowa which I can attest to is that you are not in fact "above the law" as a student athlete. When the the police have a sufficient case the University steps out of the way and cuts ties. Time and time again. The sheer volume of our known criminal incedents almost proves that we have much less if anything left to hide. We take each small lump as it comes rather then let them pile up into an eventual scandal.

Michigan St in comparison has had very few documented incidents and even less criminal convictions. Most of the allegations that have been made against their student athletes have been investigated and people were cleared of wrong doing. This alone strongly suggests that they are implicitly hindering and influencing the criminal processes. This is were I believe that Iowa and Michigan State become a major comparison difference. I believe that Michigan St has so many alleged assults because their culture fosters an environment that l contend leads to a higher offender rate than at Iowa or many other schools for that matter.