CFN projects 0-8 for Iowa in the Big Ten Conference.

[vosov]

Originally Posted by vosovWhat do you think a HC is supposed to do? They surround themselves with good people, just like any other good leader in any other situation. Whether it be politics, business, the military, or sports. He did a nice job of hiring assistant coaches, which is near the top of the list for a HC. He did a bad job of waiting too long to make some changes, and now we will see if he can do it again. Who hired Norm?



In 14 seasons, Iowa's BIG conference record, under KF, is 59-52. Is ths really doing his job well?

For a good chunk? Yes. Recently, no. We will find out in the next couple of years what he is worth.

 

[Eda]

Didn't read all 11 pages of thread...
Soooooo SIAP:

I disagree with CFN. I think we'll be .500 or above in conference. MSU is the swing game, IMO.

 

[FreedComanche]

What do you think a HC is supposed to do? They surround themselves with good people, just like any other good leader in any other situation. Whether it be politics, business, the military, or sports. He did a nice job of hiring assistant coaches, which is near the top of the list for a HC. He did a bad job of waiting too long to make some changes, and now we will see if he can do it again. Who hired Norm?

You must not have read my previous posts where I explained how I judge head coaches.

FreedComanche

 

[ArvadaHawk]

For a good chunk? Yes. Recently, no. We will find out in the next couple of years what he is worth.

If someone had asked me, 14 years ago, if I would be satisfied with having just one HC amass a Big 10 record of plus 7 in those 14 years; I would have said no way.

 

[FreedComanche]

If someone had asked me, 14 years ago, if I would be satisfied with having just one HC amass a Big 10 record of plus 7 in those 14 years; I would have said no way.

I know it. I don't get the loyalty to him by some on here. Actually I don't get the loyalty to him by anybody who not his family or doesn't work for him.

FreedComanche

 

[deanvogs]

If someone had asked me, 14 years ago, if I would be satisfied with having just one HC amass a Big 10 record of plus 7 in those 14 years; I would have said no way.

What if someone told you that you will need to scrape the first two years, because KF was left with nothing, and he was gonna win 4 games in those two years........then they told you that over the next 12 years that Iowa's would have the 24th best winning % in the nation over those 12 years. Better than Notre Dame, two less wins than Michigan. Would you sign up for that?

That is only tossing out his 1st two years, as we all know that no coach was gonna be successful those two years with what was left.

 

[deanvogs]

I know it. I don't get the loyalty to him by some on here. Actually I don't get the loyalty to him by anybody who not his family or doesn't work for him.

FreedComanche

You don't want to be called a hater, as you don't hate KF. In the same way I don't support KF out of "loyalty", but rather because he has proven to be a pretty good coach if you look at the last 10-12 years. Is he perfect? No, and the coach who replaces him won't be either. Those who think Iowa can have a sustained 10 year run of 9+ wins are delusional. Hayden couldn't do it, KF hasn't done it, and before those 2 Iowa was terrible, and I doubt very seriously the next coach could do it either.


People need to wake up. If KF was out, who do you replace him with? You think a big name is coming to Iowa City? Not a chance, look at what happed to Wisconsin. 3 straight Rose Bowls, the only state university, with a good AD, and rabid fans that sell out every game. They couldn't get options 1, 2, or 3.....The same thing would happen to Iowa. Sure we could get lucky and bring in some MAC level coach who turns out to be awesome......or we could bring in an Alford, or lick.


This is why I support KF. The other options are like playing Russian roulette. Could you win? Sure you could, but you could also blow your brains out. Now if we have another 4 win season I would be up for Russian roulette. If we go .500, I'm behind KF, as all the pieces would be in place for a very good '14 & '15.


It isn't "loyality" it is logic.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

What if someone told you that you will need to scrape the first two years, because KF was left with nothing, and he was gonna win 4 games in those two years........then they told you that over the next 12 years that Iowa's would have the 24th best winning % in the nation over those 12 years. Better than Notre Dame, two less wins than Michigan. Would you sign up for that?

That is only tossing out his 1st two years, as we all know that no coach was gonna be successful those two years with what was left.

dean, you really can't cherry pick like that. It is the entire body of work. Why not just thow out the two 11-2 seasons and only look at 10 out of the 14 years?

Also, I completely disagree with the premise that KF only won 4 games the first two years because of how bare the cubbords were. I am not saying that didn't factor in; it certainly could have. However, if you think KF had it so rough following Hayden when Hayden had already built Iowa into a national brand, then you are off the mark. You know, Hayden Fry won 9 games his first to seasons at Iowa and that was coming off 20 straight losing seasons and at a completely irrelevant program. Iowa was 5-6 Hayden's first season. He won with...players recruited to a school with a 20 year losing streak as it's recent history.

 

[deanvogs]

dean, you really can't cherry pick like that. It is the entire body of work. Why not just thow out the two 11-2 seasons and only look at 10 out of the 14 years?

Also, I completely disagree with the premise that KF only won 4 games the first two years because of how bare the cubbords were. I am not saying that didn't factor in; it certainly could have. However, if you think KF had it so rough following Hayden when Hayden had already built Iowa into a national brand, then you are off the mark. You know, Hayden Fry won 9 games his first to seasons at Iowa and that was coming off 20 straight losing seasons and at a completely irrelevant program. Iowa was 5-6 Hayden's first season. He won with...players recruited to a school with a 20 year losing streak as it's recent history.

Fran was 12-24 in the BIG his first two years.....and 21-33 overall since taking over. According to your logic, Fran is terrible, and should be judged on is overall performance.

If you want to be niave and look at it like that, the you must be consistent and do it all the time then. I am not niave, and realize both had HUGE rebuilding tasks in front of them, so I give them a pass the first two years they were cleaning up other people's messes.

BTW I'm not "cheery picking". Only looking at the first two years of rebuilding a program....

 

[FreedComanche]

You don't want to be called a hater, as you don't hate KF. In the same way I don't support KF out of "loyalty", but rather because he has proven to be a pretty good coach if you look at the last 10-12 years. Is he perfect? No, and the coach who replaces him won't be either. Those who think Iowa can have a sustained 10 year run of 9+ wins are delusional. Hayden couldn't do it, KF hasn't done it, and before those 2 Iowa was terrible, and I doubt very seriously the next coach could do it either.


People need to wake up. If KF was out, who do you replace him with? You think a big name is coming to Iowa City? Not a chance, look at what happed to Wisconsin. 3 straight Rose Bowls, the only state university, with a good AD, and rabid fans that sell out every game. They couldn't get options 1, 2, or 3.....The same thing would happen to Iowa. Sure we could get lucky and bring in some MAC level coach who turns out to be awesome......or we could bring in an Alford, or lick.


This is why I support KF. The other options are like playing Russian roulette. Could you win? Sure you could, but you could also blow your brains out. Now if we have another 4 win season I would be up for Russian roulette. If we go .500, I'm behind KF, as all the pieces would be in place for a very good '14 & '15.


It isn't "loyality" it is logic.

Your whole post is written from a position of fear. You fear that Iowa can get nobody better. Geez, no wonder you post what you post on here. I get you now.

And I don't believe you when you say you will be ok if ferentz is gone after a 4 win season. I think you are in love with him. You'll want him no matter how many games he wins or loses.

Sorry it took me so long, but I understand you better now.

FreedComanche

 

[deanvogs]

Your whole post is written from a position of fear. You fear that Iowa can get nobody better. Geez, no wonder you post what you post on here. I get you now.

And I don't believe you when you say you will be ok if ferentz is gone after a 4 win season. I think you are in love with him. You'll want him no matter how many games he wins or loses.

Sorry it took me so long, but I understand you better now.

FreedComanche

And haters gotta hate.

It is easy to be a d1ck. I mean you rip KF all the time, but cry when others call you a hater. Yet you have no problem blanketing others with your labels. Basically if people don't agree with you, they are KF apologists, or in love with him, or make excuses for him.....blah, blah, blah....

 

[FreedComanche]

And haters gotta hate.

It is easy to be a d1ck. I mean you rip KF all the time, but cry when others call you a hater. Yet you have no problem blanketing others with your labels. Basically if people don't agree with you, they are KF apologists, or in love with him, or make excuses for him.....blah, blah, blah....

You can call me any name in the book. I can live with that. However, I will refute you till the cows come home if you say or imply that I hate him. You know I don't. I hate the way he coaches, but don't hate him at all.

If people disagree with me that's good. How boring would it be on here if everybody agreed with me?

FreedComanche

 

[deanvogs]

You can call me any name in the book. I can live with that. However, I will refute you till the cows come home if you say or imply that I hate him. You know I don't. I hate the way he coaches, but don't hate him at all.

If people disagree with me that's good. How boring would it be on here if everybody agreed with me?

FreedComanche

Well than I don't look at KF from a state of fear, I'm not an apologist for KF, and I will certainly doubt his ability to turn this around if we only win 4 games this year. You have been incorrect in everything you have said in this thread.

I look at it in a realistic manner. KF over 12 years (2 years of rebuilding is both acceptable, and had to be done) so i dont count that against him. Over those 12 years, has the 24th best winning % in D1 college football. He has won 2 BIG title, and been to 2 BCS bowl games and has gone to a bowl game in every year but 2 of the last 12.

So I ask myself can he turn it around? Well he did it before, why not let him try again, he has a proven record you can look at. To me if he gets to .500 he is in very good position for next year. If he wins 4 this year, next year will probably be disappointing as well, and I won't be on board any more.

Then I ask myself who could we hire that would perform better over 12 years than KF did. Well I know we won't get a big name that has a track record like KF, where we know from the past that can do it. So basically we will hire someone, give them their first big shot and HOPE that it works out. Well I don't do anything just because I HOPE something will happen. I could quit my job and HOPE that I win the lottery. I could drive drunk every night and HOPE I don't kill myself or others. I could invest my money in high risk investments, and HOPE they pay off.

I don't operate out of Hope, or Fear, but rather I use logic, and reason to make decisions.

 

[Makavelihawk]

Well than I don't look at KF from a state of fear, I'm not an apologist for KF, and I will certainly doubt his ability to turn this around if we only win 4 games this year. You have been incorrect in everything you have said in this thread.

I look at it in a realistic manner. KF over 12 years (2 years of rebuilding is both acceptable, and had to be done) so i dont count that against him. Over those 12 years, has the 24th best winning % in D1 college football. He has won 2 BIG title, and been to 2 BCS bowl games and has gone to a bowl game in every year but 2 of the last 12.

So I ask myself can he turn it around? Well he did it before, why not let him try again, he has a proven record you can look at. To me if he gets to .500 he is in very good position for next year. If he wins 4 this year, next year will probably be disappointing as well, and I won't be on board any more.

Then I ask myself who could we hire that would perform better over 12 years than KF did. Well I know we won't get a big name that has a track record like KF, where we know from the past that can do it. So basically we will hire someone, give them their first big shot and HOPE that it works out. Well I don't do anything just because I HOPE something will happen. I could quit my job and HOPE that I win the lottery. I could drive drunk every night and HOPE I don't kill myself or others. I could invest my money in high risk investments, and HOPE they pay off.

I don't operate out of Hope, or Fear, but rather I use logic, and reason to make decisions.

You win for the most inaccurate, dbag statement in a 12 page thread.

Congrats

 

[deanvogs]

You win for the most inaccurate, dbag statement in a 12 page thread.

Congrats

Should have clarified...everything he said about ME in this thread was incorrect. I told him my opinion, and he basically called me a liar....but I'm the dbag.......

 

[FreedComanche]

Should have clarified...everything he said about ME in this thread was incorrect. I told him my opinion, and he basically called me a liar....but I'm the dbag.......

No, I don't think you are lying. I think you really believe that you will be off the ferentz bandwagon if he wins 4 games this year. Based on what I've read from you on here, I don't think you could actually go through with it. I think you hold him in to high of regard to call for his head. But, hey, I could be wrong.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

You don't want to be called a hater, as you don't hate KF. In the same way I don't support KF out of "loyalty", but rather because he has proven to be a pretty good coach if you look at the last 10-12 years. Is he perfect? No, and the coach who replaces him won't be either. Those who think Iowa can have a sustained 10 year run of 9+ wins are delusional. Hayden couldn't do it, KF hasn't done it, and before those 2 Iowa was terrible, and I doubt very seriously the next coach could do it either.


People need to wake up. If KF was out, who do you replace him with? You think a big name is coming to Iowa City? Not a chance, look at what happed to Wisconsin. 3 straight Rose Bowls, the only state university, with a good AD, and rabid fans that sell out every game. They couldn't get options 1, 2, or 3.....The same thing would happen to Iowa. Sure we could get lucky and bring in some MAC level coach who turns out to be awesome......or we could bring in an Alford, or lick.


This is why I support KF. The other options are like playing Russian roulette. Could you win? Sure you could, but you could also blow your brains out. Now if we have another 4 win season I would be up for Russian roulette. If we go .500, I'm behind KF, as all the pieces would be in place for a very good '14 & '15.


It isn't "loyality" it is logic.

I hope KF turns around this program. I really do. But you don't stick with a coach just because "we can't get anyone better" if we see this program going 4-8, 5-7, 3-9, or what have you just because of what KF accomplished from 2002-04. And 2009.

I am not ready to call for KF's head at this point. Not after one 4-8 season. Basically because Iowa is not all that far removed from an Orange Bowl win, and competitive football. I have hope that things can turn around and that last year was just a blip on the radar.

However, I am skeptical that KF can get us past the 7-5 point, because other than 2008 & 2009, 7-5 quite frankly has been the standard from 2005 until now. Is that a fireable offense? I'd say "not really". As a fan though, 7-5 leaves me feeling pretty apathetic. And the prospect of 4-8 or 5-7 makes me question how much I really even want to watch.

Call me a fair weather fan if you like. That's fair. But I do expect more out of the teams that I root for than to barely win more than they lose.. That's the way I look at 7-5. Lose one more game, you're at 6-6 and don't even have a winning record. I'm not saying win 9+ games every single year. No. But 8-4 or 9-3 type seasons shouldn't be the rare exception if you ask me.

That's basically where I see things from where I sit. Now go ahead and call me unrealistic.

 

[Xerxes]

You don't want to be called a hater, as you don't hate KF. In the same way I don't support KF out of "loyalty", but rather because he has proven to be a pretty good coach if you look at the last 10-12 years. Is he perfect? No, and the coach who replaces him won't be either. Those who think Iowa can have a sustained 10 year run of 9+ wins are delusional. Hayden couldn't do it, KF hasn't done it, and before those 2 Iowa was terrible, and I doubt very seriously the next coach could do it either.


People need to wake up. If KF was out, who do you replace him with? You think a big name is coming to Iowa City? Not a chance, look at what happed to Wisconsin. 3 straight Rose Bowls, the only state university, with a good AD, and rabid fans that sell out every game. They couldn't get options 1, 2, or 3.....The same thing would happen to Iowa. Sure we could get lucky and bring in some MAC level coach who turns out to be awesome......or we could bring in an Alford, or lick.


This is why I support KF. The other options are like playing Russian roulette. Could you win? Sure you could, but you could also blow your brains out. Now if we have another 4 win season I would be up for Russian roulette. If we go .500, I'm behind KF, as all the pieces would be in place for a very good '14 & '15.


It isn't "loyality" it is logic.

I agree with a lot of this. If KF would leave, things would get a little hairy. Particularly forced out, it is not going to look good as far as getting another accomplished coach. They will see Iowa as the school that got rid of quite possibly their most successful coach in program history.

Most likely his replacement would have MAC coach written all over it and like you said, could be like Fran, could be like Lick.

However it should be said that it will be Iowa's own choice, not something forced on them. They would most likely seek out a MAC type coach because they probably aren't going to be willing to pay for an accomplished coach. If they would offer 4 million per year to potential candidates, they would get an accomplished coach from a BCS school. If they offered 8 million a year(which they could do with their annual FB revenue stream and still make a lot of money) they could probably get really attractive candidates.

But we shouldn't make it out like Iowa can't get top coaches. Would it be harder because Iowa's location and recruiting base are far from ideal? Absolutely. Iowa's probably going to have to come with bigger offers than many other schools would have to.

But it will be Iowa's choosing to go after a Kirk type hire (accomplished NFL position coach with low level NCAA head coaching experience) or Fran/Alford/Lick type hire (accomplished mid major coach) and hope they pan out.

 

[lightning1]

I can say this much. If someone would have told me after the 04' season that we would only win 10 games - one more time over the next 10 seasons, I would have said that was unacceptable. (That 10 years is assuming we don't win 10 games in 13' or 14'. I'm going to call that a safe assumption).

 

[Sooby]

Here's some non-cherry picking numbers:
100-74 Kirks overall record at Iowa .570 winning percentage
59-52 Kirk's overall B10 record at Iowa .520 winning percentage

These numbers show exactly what Kirk Ferentz is. A solid coach who wins a little bit more than he loses.

My "cherry-pick" was in response to another "cherry-picker."

The one thing Ferentz/Barta have is that attendance hasn't plummeted at Kinnick.
With basketball attendance, Barta had no choice, but to buy-out Lickliter.

The 3-9 2000 season felt much different than the 4-8 season last year.

Fans also feel that there is a disconnect between Ferentz and the fanbase.