Big 12 getting ready to end Big 10 expansion

joshhawk said:
I think the Big 12 may die a slow death similar to how the Southwest Conference did. Nebraska and Colorado have already bolted. Texas A&M may be exploring a move to SEC. Slowly over time I think we will see more schools move away from Texas until the Big 12 finally folds.
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I think they are one move from folding myself. That conference is on thin ice & one can hear the cracking. The next move will be numerous teams & the conference won't be able to sustain itself.

This thing is an implosion just waiting to happen.

I'm not sure the HS games & Beebe thing is really bothering Beebe. He can get the games on his network & keep his hands fairly clean putting the finger on ESPN saying he had no say. A win win for him.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
Any continued Big 10 expansion would involve a school that is very good academically AND would help the Big 10 expand its TV "footprint."

The most logical additions would probably be Rutgers and Virginia/Maryland.

In other words, if the Big 10 expands, it's likely going to break up the ACC and Big East.
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What about Vergina t, do they have strong academics, i read on another site we might be intrested in duke/North C
 
Hawks7 said:
What about Vergina t, do they have strong academics, i read on another site we might be intrested in duke/North C
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Tech's academics are okay ... but Virginia's are better. Tech's academic reputation is largely built off of its sciences and engineering ... however, it still pales in comparison to what Northwestern, Illinois, and Michigan have to offer. And the aforementioned 3 are more well rounded institutions as well.

As for Duke and North Carolina ... they'd be great additions ... but I think that it would be impossible to break up the tobacco road schools. Furthermore, they'd geographically only add 1 state to the table. If the Big 10 expands again ... it's going to be driven by whether the institution is a "fit" and by money.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
Tech's academics are okay ... but Virginia's are better. Tech's academic reputation is largely built off of its sciences and engineering ... however, it still pales in comparison to what Northwestern, Illinois, and Michigan have to offer. And the aforementioned 3 are more well rounded institutions as well.

As for Duke and North Carolina ... they'd be great additions ... but I think that it would be impossible to break up the tobacco road schools. Furthermore, they'd geographically only add 1 state to the table. If the Big 10 expands again ... it's going to be driven by whether the institution is a "fit" and by money.
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Yes, but you're forgetting about the national following these two schools have for basketball.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
Furthermore, they'd geographically only add 1 state to the table.
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Notre Dame's addition would add exactly 0 states to the Big Ten footprint....you think Delany is turning them down? ;)

It isn't only about TV subscriptions, advertising revenue is projected to eventually make the network more money than subscriptions do....and in that event, Duke/UNC are VERY valuable. Duke/UNC are two of only four basketball programs in the country that can draw football type numbers on a consistent basis during basketball season. If the Big 10 is looking to drive up advertising revenue, adding Duke/UNC games to the BTN would be a very good move. You know that TV sets in Minneapolis, Chicago, Columbus, etc. are going to be tuning in when their respective schools play Duke/UNC in basketball.

In terms of subscriptions, adding Duke/UNC/UVA would be about ideal. Delaney has acknowledged that the Big Ten's decreasing population is "problematic". Adding Virginia/North Carolina to the footprint would be a very savy move to help the conference population trends balance out a bit. NC currently has a population of 9M, but at its current rate of growth, it will reach 12M by 2030. VA is currently sitting right around 8M, but by 2030 it is projected to be around 10M. Also, adding those three makes a four divisional format work out well.....you can let PSU lord over the "Colonial Division" of the Big Ten - PSU, UNC, UVA, Duke. I've always preferred that system because it would allow Iowa to be in a "Great Plains" Division with UNL, Minny, & UW - preserving our traditional rivalries.

Your former point about removing Duke/UNC from NCSU is noted. I think that is why I'd push UVA really hard though - Duke/UNC/UVA are nearly as close of rivals as Duke/UNC/NCSU. Further, current Big Ten teams bring home nearly $10M more per year than each team in the ACC - it would be tough for an athletic department to outright turn down a $100M dollar offer given the costs of participating in FBS football today.
 
The Big Ten seems determined not to make the mistakes the Big 12 made when they expanded from the Big 8. The Great Plains schools never really fit with the Texas schools. Similarly UNC/Duke/Virginia/VaTech most likely wouldn't be a good fit with mostly Midwestern Big 10. They would feel like outsiders probably have animosity towards the rest of conference. It would be surprising if the Big 10 expands very far outside its current footprint.
 
joshhawk said:
The Big Ten seems determined not to make the mistakes the Big 12 made when they expanded from the Big 8. The Great Plains schools never really fit with the Texas schools. Similarly UNC/Duke/Virginia/VaTech most likely wouldn't be a good fit with mostly Midwestern Big 10. They would feel like outsiders probably have animosity towards the rest of conference. It would be surprising if the Big 10 expands very far outside its current footprint.
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I agree. Maybe if the Big 12 implodes, Mizzou and Pitt would be on board, since the Domers aren't likely to join the B1G without being pushed and prodded.

Edit: I realize they don't really add much for a TV footprint, but I think they would both be decent editions to the conference. There really aren't many schools that would fit the B1G all that well, imo.
 
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Raziel said:
Notre Dame's addition would add exactly 0 states to the Big Ten footprint....you think Delany is turning them down? ;)

It isn't only about TV subscriptions, advertising revenue is projected to eventually make the network more money than subscriptions do....and in that event, Duke/UNC are VERY valuable. Duke/UNC are two of only four basketball programs in the country that can draw football type numbers on a consistent basis during basketball season. If the Big 10 is looking to drive up advertising revenue, adding Duke/UNC games to the BTN would be a very good move. You know that TV sets in Minneapolis, Chicago, Columbus, etc. are going to be tuning in when their respective schools play Duke/UNC in basketball.

In terms of subscriptions, adding Duke/UNC/UVA would be about ideal. Delaney has acknowledged that the Big Ten's decreasing population is "problematic". Adding Virginia/North Carolina to the footprint would be a very savy move to help the conference population trends balance out a bit. NC currently has a population of 9M, but at its current rate of growth, it will reach 12M by 2030. VA is currently sitting right around 8M, but by 2030 it is projected to be around 10M. Also, adding those three makes a four divisional format work out well.....you can let PSU lord over the "Colonial Division" of the Big Ten - PSU, UNC, UVA, Duke. I've always preferred that system because it would allow Iowa to be in a "Great Plains" Division with UNL, Minny, & UW - preserving our traditional rivalries.

Your former point about removing Duke/UNC from NCSU is noted. I think that is why I'd push UVA really hard though - Duke/UNC/UVA are nearly as close of rivals as Duke/UNC/NCSU. Further, current Big Ten teams bring home nearly $10M more per year than each team in the ACC - it would be tough for an athletic department to outright turn down a $100M dollar offer given the costs of participating in FBS football today.
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You're absolutely correct about Notre Dame. However, the issue with Notre Dame is that they'd not only lure in extra advertising dollars ... but they're also a national draw. That was also probably part of the draw of Nebraska ... extra interest in the conference AND their program is enough of a "brand name" to garner a national audience.

Whenever you have such a national audience, you get more folks who are willing to pay for the sports pack that gives you access to the Big 10 network ... and that again leads to extra viewership and more TV dollars (not to the same extent as an enlarged footprint though).
 
nationalchamps said:
Yes, but you're forgetting about the national following these two schools have for basketball.
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No ... I wasn't forgetting about basketball. In fact, basketball is a HUGE reason why they'd never leave the ACC.

Besides, correct me if I'm wrong, but it strikes me that in the college game, football revenue is almost invariably bigger than basketball revenue.
 
Raziel said:
Notre Dame's addition would add exactly 0 states to the Big Ten footprint....you think Delany is turning them down? ;)

It isn't only about TV subscriptions, advertising revenue is projected to eventually make the network more money than subscriptions do....and in that event, Duke/UNC are VERY valuable. Duke/UNC are two of only four basketball programs in the country that can draw football type numbers on a consistent basis during basketball season. If the Big 10 is looking to drive up advertising revenue, adding Duke/UNC games to the BTN would be a very good move. You know that TV sets in Minneapolis, Chicago, Columbus, etc. are going to be tuning in when their respective schools play Duke/UNC in basketball.

In terms of subscriptions, adding Duke/UNC/UVA would be about ideal. Delaney has acknowledged that the Big Ten's decreasing population is "problematic". Adding Virginia/North Carolina to the footprint would be a very savy move to help the conference population trends balance out a bit. NC currently has a population of 9M, but at its current rate of growth, it will reach 12M by 2030. VA is currently sitting right around 8M, but by 2030 it is projected to be around 10M. Also, adding those three makes a four divisional format work out well.....you can let PSU lord over the "Colonial Division" of the Big Ten - PSU, UNC, UVA, Duke. I've always preferred that system because it would allow Iowa to be in a "Great Plains" Division with UNL, Minny, & UW - preserving our traditional rivalries.

Your former point about removing Duke/UNC from NCSU is noted. I think that is why I'd push UVA really hard though - Duke/UNC/UVA are nearly as close of rivals as Duke/UNC/NCSU. Further, current Big Ten teams bring home nearly $10M more per year than each team in the ACC - it would be tough for an athletic department to outright turn down a $100M dollar offer given the costs of participating in FBS football today.
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Don't forget the fact the Big Ten would lose a Big Ten/ACC challenge again if they got UNC and Duke.
 
Maryland and UVA are the only 2 that get me excited. Too bad about the need for money and footprint, because Missouri and Kansas really should be in the Big Ten geographically and culturally.

Yes, I know Mizzou has the whole confederacy thing, and Southern Mizzou is as HillBilly as it gets. But, Lawrence, KC, STL, and Columbia fit with the other B1G cities/towns.
 
Palpatine said:
Everything will proceed as I foresee:

NCAA will ban HS football on the LHN

aTm and OU will stay, as will KU and everybody else

Not enough people will subscribe to the LHN

ESPN will lose a ton of money

ESPN will expand the LHN to the Big XII Network

ISU will have a home, and have enough money to pay for their new video scoreboard
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Looks like there is one smart person in here.
 
CAARHawk said:
Maryland and UVA are the only 2 that get me excited. Too bad about the need for money and footprint, because Missouri and Kansas really should be in the Big Ten geographically and culturally.

Yes, I know Mizzou has the whole confederacy thing, and Southern Mizzou is as HillBilly as it gets. But, Lawrence, KC, STL, and Columbia fit with the other B1G cities/towns.
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If culture and geography are important, why not Iowa State? ISU fits better in the Big 10 regrading both of those categories than either Mizzou or KU do.
 
Hawks7 said:
What about Vergina t, do they have strong academics, i read on another site we might be intrested in duke/North C
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I think if the B10 ever went after Duke and UNC, it would also go after Rutgers and Syracuse. The B10's next move will be to get into the NYC market, Duke basketball is huge in NYC as well which would only help.
 
Snowcraig said:
If culture and geography are important, why not Iowa State? ISU fits better in the Big 10 regrading both of those categories than either Mizzou or KU do.
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You really don't understand the whole TV market thingy that the B1G 10 Network is working to achieve, do you? :p

They have explained for yrs now that the goal of the expansion is capturing TV markets, & in particular, one's that they don't already have or that would not offer much. They want to get into the E coast area somehow. The bigger the market, the more subscribers to the providers, the more money ending up coming to the conference including the universities.

IA State wouldn't add dilch as far as this goes.
 
I was sleeping when u made the post ;)

This sounds like a good Miller & Deace topic...coming soon to airwaves near u ;)
 
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