Big 12 getting ready to end Big 10 expansion

JonDMiller said:
I was sleeping when u made the post ;)

This sounds like a good Miller & Deace topic...coming soon to airwaves near u ;)
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I really hope it's radio and not TV, unless you are talking about a bigger channel then mediacom connections and one carried by Dish Network. :)
 
Ultimately, I think we are headed for four 16 team super-conferences. These would in fact make up a new sub-division of the NCAA in football, call it "DI+", in which the schools would pay their athletes. It would also inaugurate a defacto playoff, with the winners of the conferences' championship games being making up the football "final four" semi-finals.

The Big Ten would only go east as far as your Maryland, Rutgers, and Syracuse, with the other slot(s) going to ND and/or Missouri (who, by the way, never seceded and left the union during the Civil War, but did keep slavery legal)

just some pure speculation on my part.
 
CAARHawk said:
Maryland and UVA are the only 2 that get me excited. Too bad about the need for money and footprint, because Missouri and Kansas really should be in the Big Ten geographically and culturally.

Yes, I know Mizzou has the whole confederacy thing, and Southern Mizzou is as HillBilly as it gets. But, Lawrence, KC, STL, and Columbia fit with the other B1G cities/towns.
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I don't think that the whole talk about "culture" of Big 10 schools is necessarily speaking of the culture of folks in the midwest. Rather, I think that it speaks more of the academic culture and the culture of the collegiate athletics. There the issue as to whether the members are willing to work together as a collective ... whether the member institutions appreciate that being a member of the Big 10 is a lot more than just being about athletics.
 
PhoenixHawk said:
Ultimately, I think we are headed for four 16 team super-conferences. These would in fact make up a new sub-division of the NCAA in football, call it "DI+", in which the schools would pay their athletes. It would also inaugurate a defacto playoff, with the winners of the conferences' championship games being making up the football "final four" semi-finals.
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If they paid the 85 football players, the schools would have to either:
1)Pay 85 female athletes to meet Title IX requirements.
2)Consider the football players employees which would cause all sorts of issues including, but not limited to, unionization, contract negotiations, salary caps, strikes/lockouts, and basically all the other fun that goes along with professional sports.

Both of those scenarios make paying college football players unlikely.
 
:D
JonDMiller said:
I was sleeping when u made the post ;)

This sounds like a good Miller & Deace topic...coming soon to airwaves near u ;)
Click to expand...

Sweet when are you guys coming back on the air, morning radio sucks, i have to listen to mike and mike regional
 
thejumper5 said:
If they paid the 85 football players, the schools would have to either:
1)Pay 85 female athletes to meet Title IX requirements.
2)Consider the football players employees which would cause all sorts of issues including, but not limited to, unionization, contract negotiations, salary caps, strikes/lockouts, and basically all the other fun that goes along with professional sports.

Both of those scenarios make paying college football players unlikely.
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i was working under the asumption that they'd pay *all* student-athletes, which would "only" cost a couple million, but they could afford it. The other stuff would be dealt with by the money being classified a scholarship stipend, not a salary. When you add up the time these athletes spend in prep and competition, they'd only be making like $2.75/hr at $3,000/yr., so legally they couldn't actually call it a wage and have it be legal in any way. But I agree that's something that the BCS conferences aren't going to jump into unless their hand is forced by Big Government trying to "spread the wealth" around to the Troy's and New Mex St's of the world.

Here's one take of what could happen: Major football powers should break from NCAA, form own league - Andy Staples - SI.com
 
DwayneTwill said:
There's no way they're going to pay all athletes. Those scenarios are non-starters.
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Do the math, it would only end up cost like 1.5 million more than it doesn now. That's a pittance in Athletic budgets that are counted in the tens of millions. BCS schools are all already pulling in many times that just from their TV contracts.

What would really do it would be to get football exempted from title IX by making football completely self-supporting, and therefore not funded or subsidized by the university general fund at all. And these huge TV contracts are getting us there.
 
PhoenixHawk said:
What would really do it would be to get football exempted from title IX by making football completely self-supporting, and therefore not funded or subsidized by the university general fund at all. And these huge TV contracts are getting us there.
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That's a pipe dream. It's not going to be as simple as that.
 
DwayneTwill said:
That's a pipe dream. It's not going to be as simple as that.
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Why not?

The new DI+ playoffs contract would pay for everything.

Quarterfinals - 4 conference championship games (one weekend)

Semis - 2 games (next weekend)

DI+ championship game (3rd weekend)

8 teams, 7 games over 3 weeks. Looks good to me. How much do you think NBC, Fox, and ESPN would bid that package up to?
 
PhoenixHawk said:
Why not?

The new DI+ playoffs contract would pay for everything.

Quarterfinals - 4 conference championship games (one weekend)

Semis - 2 games (next weekend)

DI+ championship game (3rd weekend)

8 teams, 7 games over 3 weeks. Looks good to me. How much do you think NBC, Fox, and ESPN would bid that package up to?
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It's a lot of dough. I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that it's not going to be the end of title IX.
 
I don't think the Big East could afford to bring in all those teams. That is just too many mouths to feed, especially when the most of the mouths bring NOTHING to the table. No winning traditions and no major population centers to offset the mouths. Most of the teams that would be going to Big East are the dregs of the Big 12 who offer NOTHING but another mouth to feed.

What giant TV pact could the Big East possibly get? The east coast doesn't change at all--no new big name teams join the Big East. The teams added will have NO drawing power in the east; the east teams will have NO drawing power in the plains. They add a couple of population centers but can the population centers that are added increase viewership all that much? There will be no Oklahoma or Texas or Texas A&M to draw many viewers from Texas except those few small pockets of people that like Texas Tech and Baylor. The majority of Texans will watch Texas and Texas A&M.

So where does the Big East get all the money to pay equal shares to all those new mouths. ISU vs. U Conn...great draw; Rutgers vs. Baylor...WHAT series will be a draw in football--the primary money maker for a league? There just are NO new matchups that will excite many college football fans, especially no matchups to command a huge TV pact. The east coast teams will be only interested in matchups out east like they always have.

If that league were to form it is doomed before it even begins. Travel costs will be enormous. Do you think each team in the new big east would get payed $12 to $15 million? Where would the money come from?

But WHAT other choice do the dregs of the Big 12 have? If they go to the Mountain West, again that is too many new mouths too feed and the Mountain West doesn't pay anything NOW. How would adding a bunch of second/third tier football programs increase the payday for the league?

Conference USA...same argument. A bunch of new mouths to feed that don't bring anything to the conference.

Think about it...what does ISU have to offer a conference except a very small population of fans centered in a couple of spots in Iowa and a very bad football program? Kansas, other than its bb program; KSU.

Hell, Missouri has more to offer the Big 10 than it does any other conference. Texas Tech and Baylor? Same argument...although Texas Tech has had some recent success so they might be looked at by the Pac 12.
 
DwayneTwill said:
It's a lot of dough. I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that it's not going to be the end of title IX.
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It wouldn't be the end of Title IX. Title IX only exists for any school that takes Federal money (ie, them all). If the football programs (and exclusively the football programs) are spun off in such a way as to be totally self-supporting through tickets & TV, then the legal case would be made that the football programs receive no university $, and therefore, no federal $, and therefore, does not apply to the university's Title IX compliance requirements. That would be the argument.

A number of BCS teams are already there, and with the new contracts coming out, even more will be in the next few years.

But my bigger point remains that university athletic scholarships are given in the hundreds, not the thousands, so this extra revenue will probably be enough to give the extra payments of $3,000/yr to *all* scholarship athletes, not just football, therefore making Title IX completely irrelevant to a BCS spinoff from DI to DI+.
 
NewMexHawk said:
I don't think the Big East could afford to bring in all those teams. That is just too many mouths to feed, especially when the most of the mouths bring NOTHING to the table. No winning traditions and no major population centers to offset the mouths. Most of the teams that would be going to Big East are the dregs of the Big 12 who offer NOTHING but another mouth to feed.

What giant TV pact could the Big East possibly get? The east coast doesn't change at all--no new big name teams join the Big East. The teams added will have NO drawing power in the east; the east teams will have NO drawing power in the plains. They add a couple of population centers but can the population centers that are added increase viewership all that much? There will be no Oklahoma or Texas or Texas A&M to draw many viewers from Texas except those few small pockets of people that like Texas Tech and Baylor. The majority of Texans will watch Texas and Texas A&M.

So where does the Big East get all the money to pay equal shares to all those new mouths. ISU vs. U Conn...great draw; Rutgers vs. Baylor...WHAT series will be a draw in football--the primary money maker for a league? There just are NO new matchups that will excite many college football fans, especially no matchups to command a huge TV pact. The east coast teams will be only interested in matchups out east like they always have.

If that league were to form it is doomed before it even begins. Travel costs will be enormous. Do you think each team in the new big east would get payed $12 to $15 million? Where would the money come from?

But WHAT other choice do the dregs of the Big 12 have? If they go to the Mountain West, again that is too many new mouths too feed and the Mountain West doesn't pay anything NOW. How would adding a bunch of second/third tier football programs increase the payday for the league?

Conference USA...same argument. A bunch of new mouths to feed that don't bring anything to the conference.

Think about it...what does ISU have to offer a conference except a very small population of fans centered in a couple of spots in Iowa and a very bad football program? Kansas, other than its bb program; KSU.

Hell, Missouri has more to offer the Big 10 than it does any other conference. Texas Tech and Baylor? Same argument...although Texas Tech has had some recent success so they might be looked at by the Pac 12.
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I just wrote this in this thread, but I think the Big East and B12 ultimately go away. I think we're heading towards 4, 16 team super-conferences, with the winners of the championship games making up the semi-finals of a new BCS/DI+ spinoff division. The ACC, B10, and SEC would take chunks of the Big East (mostly B10 & ACC), and the B12 would split between the PAC-12, SEC, and B10. A few small market B12 & Big East teams would be left out, and your BYU's and ND's (and maybe a couple others) would be forced to get in to be part of the new DI+ division or remain forever part of the irrelevant DIb division, along with your New Mex St, Eastern Mich, and Troy. So that's what I think.
 
You take Kansas if you can get them without Kansas State. With Kansas you get a National appeal with their basketball program and the Kansas City market. Missouri might be another option but mainly to block the SEC from expanding into the Midwest along with snagging the St Louis market and you also get Kansas City if you cannot get Kansas. Beyond those 2 schools I think the B1G Ten is looking east to tap into the New York market. Syracuse and Rutgers could get them into the New York market with just enough interest in NYC to force cable companies to carry the BTN. That would add a tremendous amount of money to the conference.

But I think the ideal situation for the B1G Ten is to put pressure on Notre Dame to join. You do this by limiting the scheduling options they have with the B1G and Delaney is already pushing for a 9 game schedule. If they could snag ND they then would add Rutgers or Syracuse and call it a day. Anyone that thinks Notre Dame does not add TV sets to the BTN is dead wrong. The following for ND football is huge and people watch them all across the country. People that either love ND or hate ND are watching them, if there is not a good B1G Ten game on I tune in to NBC to root for the other team. It would force cable companies all across the US to consider adding BTN to their lineup and I think the BTN collects ~$1.10 for each subscriber they have.
 
I could be wrong but if the Big 10 really wanted to tap into the NYC market I think they would have done it already. Syracuse and Rutgers don't carry much weight in their own conference, except maybe Syracuse ball. I don't see them being a fit in the Big 10.
 
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