BHGP DJK story

storminspank said:
Not trying to be a smart-***, but if there are tons of DJKs out there, I'd like to see examples. Examples of guys that put up his numbers in a college career that weren't drafted, invited to camp, signed as a FA, or signed to a CFL contract. If there are tons of them, then there should be an easy list to pick at least 10 of them out.

The point is, he had the talent, at minimum, to be brought in as a FA signing. The clubs are out NOTHING to do this, they see what he can do, if they don't like what they see. Bam. Cut. Done. No one did this (that we know of, maybe someone tried and DJK turned them down or he failed another drug test or something... we don't know). The point is there is a reason DJK isn't in the league, and it isn't because he lacked talent.

I'm not saying Ferentz is the reason, far from it. I'm just saying there has to be a reason DJK didn't get a whiff of the NFL, his talent notwithstanding.
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Stormin -

I think that you're confusing talent for production.

DJK had talent ... but his production on the field was simply overstated.

There are plenty of guys who put up DJK-like stats .... and some of them do get FA deals. However, how about the guys who put up DJK-like stats ... but also have brush-ins with the law like DJK? How about those same guys who alienate their coaches so much that they can't get a positive recommendation? You don't see those guys in the NFL either.

I'll try to dig up a list of guys for ya ....
 
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storminspank said:
Also, why is DJK's production faulted because he got a lot of snaps and played all four years? Shouldn't that HELP his case? Must have been a pretty damn good football player to get playing time all four years at Iowa, huh?
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Our depth and experience-level overall at WR was pi$$-poor in '07 and '08.

Had Douglas and Cleveland not been stupid ... this entire debate would be moot.

Anyhow, the above guys did stupid things ... and DJK was able to entrench himself as being BOTH talented and he had game-experience to boot.


REASON FOR EDIT: This stupid, fracking posting software censored the word pis$.
 
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JonDMiller said:
Lets assume for a second that KF did not give DJK any ringing endorsement...and gave his blunt opinion and say it was not positive.

Is Kirk supposed to lie, or rather, not give his opinion? Because if he starts doing that, and if the player in question doesn't pan out or flakes out, then people will begin to question the value of Kirk's input...and that could have a negative impact on Iowa players chances at NFL opportunities down the line...players who weren't doing drugs..players who were walking the line that was set down to be walked in the program.
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Jon, another poster mentioned former teammates who may have given less-than-stellar "reports". I'm also thinking of a former NFL QB--who is also the father of a former Iowa QB, and who had to have read DJKs glowing endorsement of Stanzi when the QB "battle" was still going on--and realize just how true some of the "blackballing" or "bad-mouthing" rumors might be. But it STILL doesn't mean KF is doing it.

A couple other things to ponder: google DJK, and one result is a Wikipedia page referencing him as Philadelphia Eagle. If you are in Eagles "management" and google the kid and see this, aren't you a little off-put by it? As well, IF Kirk Ferentz DOES give a ringing endorsement, and things do NOT work out (or worse, turn out badly), how does THAT look/reflect on Kirk?

In short, I think what amounts to an opinion, with only one POV on the subject, is worth very little in terms of credibility.

I hope DJK gets a chance. I certainly don't think Kirk Ferentz "owes" him anything.
 
cmhawks99 said:
See here is why this thread is 10 pages long...............

People don’t listen. Namely the guys who are so Pro DJK they can’t have a rational thought. There is not one person in this thread who said DJK did not have talent. It clearly, let me say again, CLEARLY wasn’t enough talent to offset the other issues……

Somebody said there are two camps…..that’s not true, there appear to be at least 4……………..

The two aforementioned…………….Either you think he had enuff talent or you did not.

Or you think KF somehow is responsible (they don’t want to say it but they think it)

Or you think it’s pretty obvious the talent he had wasn’t enuff to offset his issues. Which in all honesty doesn’t seem debatable, does it…..?!

Chad
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Actually, I think everyone agrees DJK has the talent to play in the NFL.

I think everyone also agrees DJK made enough mistakes that he has essentially made his bed (late to practice, wearing sunglasses in an interview, doing drugs, etc.).

Everyone also agrees that Ferentz's endorsement likely carries great weight and DJK wasn't able to get it.

I would also think everyone would agree that Ferentz is extremely conservative and was likely not the best coaching fit for DJK to maximize his potential.

It's also interesting to note DJK is not your typical athlete. Sure, many black youth grew up in broken homes but the vast majority weren't adopted by a physician. The vast majority are not as intellectual or well-spoken as DJK. Anyone who thinks DJK is a thug is sorely mistaken. At the end of the day, we were all cheated by the situation: the fans, Ferentz, and DJK himself. We didn't get the opportunity to listen to a refreshing athlete who was also incredibly talented. And now we don't get to watch him in the NFL when he should probably be there. There is so much more, on the field and off, that he could have contributed but his demons kept him from excelling.

He's an adult now and there are no excuses for his behavior. That said, his mother had him at age 14. He had no father in his early formative years and has difficulty conforming to male authority. He was babied by his adoptive family and, surely, he kept his nose clean with them because they were his only saving grace.

He's most likely incredibly insecure regardless of his athletic prowess, charm and good looks because he does not feel that he fits in anywhere. He doesn't really fit in with his adopted family. He did not grow up on the streets in the ghetto so he probably does not relate to the other black kids on the team. Nor does he really fit in with the white kids from the farm. His "drug house" buddy was a rich white kid from Johnston.

None of this makes it ok that he blew his opportunities and, while I'm not losing sleep over it, it sucks for everyone.
 
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MJSCK said:
Actually, I think everyone agrees DJK has the talent to play in the NFL.

I think everyone also agrees DJK made enough mistakes that he has essentially made his bed (late to practice, wearing sunglasses in an interview, doing drugs, etc.).

Everyone also agrees that Ferentz's endorsement likely carries great weight and DJK wasn't able to get it.

I would also think everyone would agree that Ferentz is extremely conservative and was likely not the best coaching fit for DJK to maximize his potential.

It's also interesting to note DJK is not your typical athlete. Sure, many black youth grew up in broken homes but the vast majority weren't adopted by a physician. The vast majority are not as intellectual or well-spoken as DJK. Anyone who thinks DJK is a thug is sorely mistaken. At the end of the day, we were all cheated by the situation: the fans, Ferentz, and DJK himself. We didn't get the opportunity to listen to a refreshing athlete who was also incredibly talented. And now we don't get to watch him in the NFL when he should probably be there. There is so much more, on the field and off, that he could have contributed but his demons kept him from excelling.

He's an adult now and there are no excuses for his behavior. That said, his mother had him at age 14. He had no father in his early formative years and has difficulty conforming to male authority. He was babied by his adoptive family and, surely, he kept his nose clean with them because they were his only saving grace.

He's most likely incredibly insecure regardless of his athletic prowess, charm and good looks because he does not feel that he fits in anywhere. He doesn't really fit in with his adopted family. He did not grow up on the streets in the ghetto so he probably does not relate to the other black kids on the team. Nor does he really fit in with the white kids from the farm. His "drug house" buddy was a rich white kid from Johnston.

None of this makes it ok that he blew his opportunities and, while I'm not losing sleep over it, it sucks for everyone.
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Actually it does suck and you are right DJK is not a thug…….he is maybe even worse than that. In some capacities I cruised through life like DJK and I knew many, many kids like him. Good looking, glib, highly intelligent. They give enuff that people say….wow is that kid something all the while others keep a very wary eye on him/me……

If I had a dollar for everyone who labeled me the kid with so much ability and charm I would no longer work, yet it was a hard arduous road until I “got it”. And by the Grace of God I did. I cannot agree that KF was a bad fit for DJK…..anyone else who let him slide and give even less would have been even worse for his future.

Hopefully DJK gets it figured out and gives us ALL of him….until then it’s all on him.

Chad
 
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MJSCK said:
I would also think everyone would agree that Ferentz is extremely conservative and was likely not the best coaching fit for DJK to maximize his potential.
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I would disagree with that assertion. Whether Ferentz is conservative or not has little bearing on how much effort DJK puts in to refine his craft. In fact, Ferentz and Co attempted all sorts of different strategies in order to help motivate DJK. They gave him freedom ... didn't work. They held the starting designation as a lure ... didn't work. Media attention and the like was also used as a lure .... didn't work. They used playing time as a motivator ... didn't work. What in the world else could they have done?

The one year when he seemed to make a little bit more effort during the off-season ... that is, the one going into his SR season ... and all of a sudden he finds the endzone and really had a great first two-thirds of the season. Then, he absolutely disappears in the latter third of the season. Why? Who knows? Maybe there was no more motivation after he broke Iowa's all-time receptions and yardage mark ... I don't know.

Every other year, I heard numerous remarks about him missing meetings, workouts, and the like. Not really the effort that you'd hope from a guy of DJK's caliber.

Had DJK actually been receptive to the coaching by and life-lessons taught by our coaches ... then we don't have this discussion. Ultimately, everything still falls back on DJK.
 
BlckNGldHwk said:
Do you think there is a coach out there that could have gotten more effort out of DJK?
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If there is one, it would be Bob Stoops.

1. OU's offense is much more wide-open
2. DJK has a lot of respect for Stoops, as DJK is also from Youngstown (for all intents and purposes, anyway)
 
QUOTE=hawkfan340;492296]Here's my problem with the conspiracy theorists. They argue that there are less talented players in the NFL and that there are players with more baggage in the NFL right now, so why not DJK? Well the question really should be are there players with a combination of less talent and more baggage than DJK right now. To compare him to one subset or the other isn't an apples to apples comparison.

I can't really think of anyone off the top of my head that fits the bill.

Still, based on his talents, I would have thought he'd get a look at a camp as a returner somewhere. I think it's unfortunate, but I don't buy the conspiracy angle.[/QUOTE]

I agree with Hawkfan340. He's not a playmaker. He doesn't have great speed. He can't get open. He's short for his postition.
He's marginal NFL material. And he's a proven "troublemaker".

Most likely, he'll need to prove "teamcentric" attitudes in a lesser league. Maybe entertain becoming a safety.

IMO, the greatest impediment to him getting a shot in the NFL is his "singleminded" attitudes.
Should this bias by the NFL against "troublemaker" athletes be allowed to continue? IMO, it depends on the worth to the team of the "troublemaking" athlete.

IMO, I've buried the lead: Ferentz didn't cause DJK to be blackballed from the NFL. T.O., Moss, and Carson Palmer? caused DJK to be blackballed from the NFL. Palmer may play next year - a player who's worth may be more important than his "singlemindedness".
 
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HomerChampless said:
I agree with Hawkfan340. He's not a playmaker. He doesn't have great speed. He can't get open. He's short for his postition.
He's marginal NFL material. And he's a proven "troublemaker".

Most likely, he'll need to prove "teamcentric" attitudes in a lesser league. Maybe entertain becoming a safety.

IMO, the greatest impediment to him getting a shot in the NFL is his "singleminded" attitudes.
Should this bias by the NFL against "troublemaker" athletes be allowed to continue? IMO, it depends on the worth to the team of the "troublemaking" athlete.

IMO, I've buried the lead: Ferentz didn't cause DJK to be blackballed from the NFL. T.O., Moss, and Carson Palmer? caused DJK to be blackballed from the NFL. Palmer may play next year - a player who's worth may be more important than his "singlemindedness".
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Let's be fair to Carson Palmer. He's spent 8 years toiling in futility for one of the worst franchises in sports. They have not shown a consistent commitment to winning. His o-line has never been particularly good, and now his best receivers are rookies (A.J. Green and Gresham is basically a rookie). The defense has always sucked.

He's done plenty for Mike Brown. Mike Brown hasn't done sh*t to help Palmer elevate the Bengals.
 
I may have missed it but find it interesting his MPOD brand got Monster as a sponsor. Not sure how long that lasted or is still going. Also, he's an enjoyable and also sometimes annoying read on twitter. That can't help his cost. Add that to how many agents he has had so far. My thought with that is he either hired the wrong guy or is unwilling to listen and take advice. I assume the latter from gis track record. Maybe he's asking for more than just a chance. Which he is in no position to do. I think he could have become a decent slot receiver with handling some return duties. But at this point I think the chances of ever seeing him step foot on an NFL field are extremely thin.
 
and that tweet is exactly what I'm talking about. Racist remarks lime that don't help you get in the NFL. Some kids just were never taught when the shut the hell up.
 
and that tweet is exactly what I'm talking about. Racist remarks lime that don't help you get in the NFL. Some kids just were never taught when the shut the hell up.
 
dyerhawk said:
ok didnt know that. anyways is he REEFERing to his situation or what? Im sure there is meaning behind it
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There doesn't have to be. Plenty of people will post lyrics of a song just because they like the song. Also, this is a new release, I believe.
 
MJSCK said:
Actually, I think everyone agrees DJK has the talent to play in the NFL.

I think everyone also agrees DJK made enough mistakes that he has essentially made his bed (late to practice, wearing sunglasses in an interview, doing drugs, etc.).

Everyone also agrees that Ferentz's endorsement likely carries great weight and DJK wasn't able to get it.

I would also think everyone would agree that Ferentz is extremely conservative and was likely not the best coaching fit for DJK to maximize his potential.

It's also interesting to note DJK is not your typical athlete. Sure, many black youth grew up in broken homes but the vast majority weren't adopted by a physician. The vast majority are not as intellectual or well-spoken as DJK. Anyone who thinks DJK is a thug is sorely mistaken. At the end of the day, we were all cheated by the situation: the fans, Ferentz, and DJK himself. We didn't get the opportunity to listen to a refreshing athlete who was also incredibly talented. And now we don't get to watch him in the NFL when he should probably be there. There is so much more, on the field and off, that he could have contributed but his demons kept him from excelling.

He's an adult now and there are no excuses for his behavior. That said, his mother had him at age 14. He had no father in his early formative years and has difficulty conforming to male authority. He was babied by his adoptive family and, surely, he kept his nose clean with them because they were his only saving grace.

He's most likely incredibly insecure regardless of his athletic prowess, charm and good looks because he does not feel that he fits in anywhere. He doesn't really fit in with his adopted family. He did not grow up on the streets in the ghetto so he probably does not relate to the other black kids on the team. Nor does he really fit in with the white kids from the farm. His "drug house" buddy was a rich white kid from Johnston.

None of this makes it ok that he blew his opportunities and, while I'm not losing sleep over it, it sucks for everyone.
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I don't think he has the talent to play in the NFL. If he did, surely someone would take a risk on him. Even a practice-squad risk. No one has.
 
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