Ben Rapistberger is the most overrated QB of the modern era

DuffMan said:
I never said those guys were great in big games. I said Ben was average, and he is. I also said I'd take every one of those guys before Ben (Eli is probably a wash) if I were starting a new team and needed a QB.
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I'm sure you would, but just because you don't know much about football doesn't mean Ben is an average NFL QB.
 
DuffMan said:
I never said those guys were great in big games. I said Ben was average, and he is. I also said I'd take every one of those guys before Ben (Eli is probably a wash) if I were starting a new team and needed a QB.
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That was my point too. Exactly Duffman.
Big Ben is not an elite QB.
 
BLKNGOLD48 said:
So what do you measure them by then? Is Dan Marino or Bret Farve the best QB of all time based on their stats? The only thing stupid in this discussion is your logic.
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Yikes. There's nothing wrong with logic that suggests that judging an individual should not be done by using a metric that only looks at a team's performance. It really isn't that difficult of a concept.
 
DuffMan said:
Ben's off field issues are light years worse than Vick in terms of big picture and possible effect on a potential football team. Vick did something terrible, there is no debate about this. But by all accounts he's done his time, learned his lesson, and become a much more responsible man about it. The likelyhood that Vick causes more trouble off the field is miniscule.

Ben on the other hand has shown a repeated pattern of bad decisions. He's raped two women (he also had similar issues while in college) and nearly killed himself riding a motorcycle around town with no helmet. He's a much higher off the field risk.
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Duff, this discussion is interesting and good off-season debate, but I'm not even going to get into the off the field crap. All I'm saying, is stats are fun to debate, but NFL QB's are validated with Super Bowl wins, just ask Dan Marino.
 
DuffMan said:
Again it's not about that, it's about the body of work and what it mean's going forward. Ben is a much much higher risk of causing off the field problems in the future because his problems show a pattern of bad decisions and actions over a period of several years.
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Mike Vick ran a dog fighting operation that brought in over $100,000. This wasn't a one time dog fight, he ran this for several years. Who's to say Vick won't go back to his old ways?

He also was involved in several incidents with law enforcement involving marijuana over several years.
 
GravyJones said:
Yikes. There's nothing wrong with logic that suggests that judging an individual should not be done by using a metric that only looks at a team's performance. It really isn't that difficult of a concept.
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Gravy, it's not that difficult but stats don't mean squat unless your goal is to get to the Hall of Fame.
 
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BLKNGOLD48 said:
Duff, this discussion is interesting and good off-season debate, but I'm not even going to get into the off the field crap. All I'm saying, is stats are fun to debate, but NFL QB's are validated with Super Bowl wins, just ask Dan Marino.
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NFL QB's can't be validated solely by anything. Again it's all about the body of work.

I don't know any sane person who thinks Phil Simms, Mark Rypen, Doug Williams, Jim Plunket, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon, or Brad Johnson were in Dan Marino's league, or even Warren Moon's leage for that matter.

Those guys all won at least one super bowl, but none could hold a candle to those two guys.
 
HawkeyeMike23 said:
Mike Vick ran a dog fighting operation that brought in over $100,000. This wasn't a one time dog fight, he ran this for several years. Who's to say Vick won't go back to his old ways?

He also was involved in several incidents with law enforcement involving marijuana over several years.
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Again Michael vick got in trouble, served his time, got released, and has walked the straight and narrow since getting out. He's done and said all the right things and has done nothing to indicate he hasn't learned his lesson.

Ben raped a woman in a hotel room. He learned his lesson so well that he did that same thing several years later in the bathroom of a night club. In his spare time between these he tries to put a Cerulo mark in the windshield of a car from his motorcycle.

You really don't think Ben's actions are a bit more troubling in the future than Vick's?
 
DuffMan said:
Again Michael vick got in trouble, served his time, got released, and has walked the straight and narrow since getting out. He's done and said all the right things and has done nothing to indicate he hasn't learned his lesson.

Ben raped a woman in a hotel room. He learned his lesson so well that he did that same thing several years later in the bathroom of a night club. In his spare time between these he tries to put a Cerulo mark in the windshield of a car from his motorcycle.

You really don't think Ben's actions are a bit more troubling in the future than Vick's?
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Ben Roethlisberger has never been convicted of anything. Mike Vick has been found guilty of federal charges of operating an interstate dog fighting ring.

Vick was also the owner of a truck which was driven by two many who were arrested for possesion of marijuana with intent to distribute. He has herpes and knowningly had unprotcted sex with more than one woman. (Which did have at least one positive as it gave us the always hillarious Ron Mexico nickname). He tested positive for marijuana use while awaiting sentencing for his dog fighting conviction.

They both have made some poor decisions off the field but no I don't think Roethlisberger having sex with drunk girls is anywhere near as troubling as raping and murdering dogs for years to make a few grand on the side.
 
To those who put Romo ahead of Big Ben in your top ten, you are either a Cowboys fan or downright brain dead. Romo is not good. You are clearly dillusional to say you would rather have him over Big Ben.
Big Ben is not overrated because nobody says he is a top flight elite quarterback. The discussion this year was if Rodgers belongs in the elite category with Brees, P Manning, and Brady. I think this year has validated that and he is. Big Ben does belong in the next group which would include Rivers, Big Ben, Vick, Ryan. Then there would be E Manning, Schaub, Romo, Cutler, and maybe Cassel.
 
I must have missed the dog raping incident....

Seriously though we are going to have to disagree here. I've heard of serial rapists before, I've never heard of a serial dog fighting ring operation.

The bottom line is while neither of them will ever win the Walter Payton award for off the field work I would feel much more comfortable as a GM with Vick as my QB compared to Ben. In my mind it's not even really close. A big part of that is the time between the crime and now. Vicks culminated with him being sentenced to prison in December of 2007, over 3 years ago. He's been on the straight and narrow sense then.

Ben was accused of Rape in 2008 and in April of 2010, that's less than a year ago.
 
Igothawked said:
To those who put Romo ahead of Big Ben in your top ten, you are either a Cowboys fan or downright brain dead. Romo is not good. You are clearly dillusional to say you would rather have him over Big Ben.
Big Ben is not overrated because nobody says he is a top flight elite quarterback. The discussion this year was if Rodgers belongs in the elite category with Brees, P Manning, and Brady. I think this year has validated that and he is. Big Ben does belong in the next group which would include Rivers, Big Ben, Vick, Ryan. Then there would be E Manning, Schaub, Romo, Cutler, and maybe Cassel.
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Really? The guy has a better completion percentage, td/int ratio, QB rating, and has been elected to 3 times as many pro bowls... yet anyone who would take him over Ben is clearly dillusional...
 
DuffMan said:
Really? The guy has a better completion percentage, td/int ratio, QB rating, and has been elected to 3 times as many pro bowls... yet anyone who would take him over Ben is clearly dillusional...
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You're really using Pro Bowls to measure how good a QB is? Actually, that doesn't surprise me. Let's think about this Ben plays in the same league as Brady and Manning, there's two spots gone every year. Romo plays in the much weaker NFC, it's much easier for him to make the Pro Bowl.

Also, Roethlisberger has had four seasons with a QB rating over 98.0, Romo has had zero.
 
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Igothawked said:
To those who put Romo ahead of Big Ben in your top ten, you are either a Cowboys fan or downright brain dead. Romo is not good. You are clearly dillusional to say you would rather have him over Big Ben.
Big Ben is not overrated because nobody says he is a top flight elite quarterback. The discussion this year was if Rodgers belongs in the elite category with Brees, P Manning, and Brady. I think this year has validated that and he is. Big Ben does belong in the next group which would include Rivers, Big Ben, Vick, Ryan. Then there would be E Manning, Schaub, Romo, Cutler, and maybe Cassel.
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Look at the stats. We are the ones that are brain dead????? WTF!!!!
 
HawkeyeMike23 said:
You're really using Pro Bowls to measure how good a QB is? Actually, that doesn't surprise me. Let's think about this Ben plays in the same league as Brady and Manning, there's two spots gone every year. Romo plays in the much weaker NFC, it's much easier for him to make the Pro Bowl.

Also, Roethlisberger has had four seasons with a QB rating over 98.0, Romo has had zero.
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For the love of god man this isn't about one thing, it's about the body of work. Why can't you understand that? I'm not saying the Pro Bowl is the only measure, I'm saying it all goes in to the equation.

Ben has also had 2 seasons with a QB rating of 80 or below, Romo's LOWEST season rating was 91.4. Romo is 5th all time in career QB rating (I'm fully aware Ben is 8th). Romo clearly wins on the issue of QB rating which is only one of many things that factor in.
 
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