BLKNGOLD48
Well-Known Member
Top 4 without a doubt, and I don't think many can argue with that. I would argue you could put Big Ben at #5. #5 thru #10 haven't done jack sh*t in the playoff's minus Eli 1 SuperBowl victory.
Ben Rapistberger is the most overrated QB of the modern era
- Thread starter DuffMan
- Start date
Top 4 without a doubt, and I don't think many can argue with that. I would argue you could put Big Ben at #5. #5 thru #10 haven't done jack sh*t in the playoff's minus Eli 1 SuperBowl victory.
BLKNGOLD48
Well-Known Member
So now he's overrated because of his off field issues? This is coming from a guy who put Vick #5 on his list?
AtownHawk1
Well-Known Member
Vick gives defenses more fits than Ben
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Rivers at 10, Vick at 5, Ryan at 6? We get it, you don't know much about the NFL. Thanks for trying though.
GravyJones
Well-Known Member
That's fine if you're talking about a team you like, but it's pretty stupid to use when determining a player's value.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Hines Ward has averaged 83 catches a season for the past 10 seasons. Johnny Knox averages 48. Hines Ward is considered the best blocking WR in the league. He also scores more TD's than Knox. Johnny Knox isn't in the same league as Hines Ward at this point. Hines Ward has been a great WR for 13 years now
Cool, Ward caught 59 passes this year, Knox 51. Knox averaged almost 8 yards more per reception too. Who cares if Ward averaged 83 catches over 10 years, I don't care how good he was in the past, I'm talking about now. And Ward has never been a big play threat, he's always been a solid WR, but he's not a great WR by any stretch any more.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
Not everyone compares QB's using solely using SB championships. I don't know a single sane person who thinks Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Warren Moon, Dan Marino, Drew Bledsoe, or Jim Kelley. Often times a SB ring is simply a function of what kind of an organization you play for.
In his last 3 years in the league John Elway won 2 SB titles. Was he a better QB those 3 years than in any of the previous years? No. He won those rings because he had a solid team behind him.
Conversely Joe Montana was a slightly above average QB his last two years in the league for the Cheifs. Was he a significantly worse QB with the Cheifs than he was with the 49ers? No. He just happened to play for the Cheifs.
They had they both retired 3 years earlier it would be a concensus that Montana would be light years ahead of Elway, but just because Elway won two rings in his last 3 years they are in the same ballpark? No. The reality is there were in the same ballpark before, it's just the masses lack the ability to think and see big picture.
Is Marino significantly worse than Elway or Montana? Again the answer is no. If Marino plays for either the Broncos or the 49ers he ends up with just as many rings as those guys, and it's doubtfull Montana or Elway wins any rings if they play for the Dolphins.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Who are your 10?
BLKNGOLD48
Well-Known Member
Nice try, I'm not a Steelers fan.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
Here are 10 off the top of my head in no particular order....
Brady, Romo, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, Cassil, Vick, Manning, and Vick.
Also in the conversaion are Eli Manning, and Bradford. Ben is probably somewhere around 11-13 which is decidedly average.
AtownHawk1
Well-Known Member
5 though 10 can be in any order. Big Ben is not in the top 10. That is the point. If the Steelers had a better QB they would have more titles. He isn't an elite QB. He doesn't have the stats for the Hall of Fame. Agree?
GravyJones
Well-Known Member
Nice try what? It's stupid to judge a player's value by using wins (team dependent) over their actual individual contributions. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
BLKNGOLD48
Well-Known Member
Dude, you are talking so many different what if's. How is Big Ben overrated?
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Haha, you think Ben isn't good in big games. Please show me the great post season stats for Romo, Rivers, Ryan, Cassel, Vick and Eli Manning?
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
He's creating his own dillusional argument that people think Roethlisberger is one of the greatest QBs ever. No one ever says that though, he's regarded almost universally as being in the top of the second tier of NFL QBs, behind Brady, Manning, Brees and Rivers, which is exactly where he should be rated.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
Ben's off field issues are light years worse than Vick in terms of big picture and possible effect on a potential football team. Vick did something terrible, there is no debate about this. But by all accounts he's done his time, learned his lesson, and become a much more responsible man about it. The likelyhood that Vick causes more trouble off the field is miniscule.
Ben on the other hand has shown a repeated pattern of bad decisions. He's raped two women (he also had similar issues while in college) and nearly killed himself riding a motorcycle around town with no helmet. He's a much higher off the field risk.
BLKNGOLD48
Well-Known Member
So what do you measure them by then? Is Dan Marino or Bret Farve the best QB of all time based on their stats? The only thing stupid in this discussion is your logic.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Please remind me when Ben served a couple years of jail time and nearly ruined the franchise for which he was playing for? I must not have been following the league very closely during that time.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
I never said those guys were great in big games. I said Ben was average, and he is. I also said I'd take every one of those guys before Ben (Eli is probably a wash) if I were starting a new team and needed a QB.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
Again it's not about that, it's about the body of work and what it mean's going forward. Ben is a much much higher risk of causing off the field problems in the future because his problems show a pattern of bad decisions and actions over a period of several years.
