Back to the Lickliter years...

Hawk5656 said:
That team was better defensively and wasn't much worse offensively efficiency wise
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As I thought - no comment on watching the team, or discussing individual players. I can read numbers too. I played Strato-Matic as a kid (you won't get that reference). It doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things.

Much of what Lickliter's teams did was to slow the game down so much that teams got out of their comfort zone. It's a similar idea of what Kirk does in football - limit possessions, keep the game close, and you have a chance to win. Those types of teams tend to have better defensive numbers.

I believe this program is light years ahead of where it was when Lickliter was here. It's down a bit this year, and there's a whole lot of work to do. Do you think the program is back to where it was under Lickliter?
 
Robowe said:
As I thought - no comment on watching the team, or discussing individual players. I can read numbers too. I played Strato-Matic as a kid (you won't get that reference). It doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things.

Much of what Lickliter's teams did was to slow the game down so much that teams got out of their comfort zone. It's a similar idea of what Kirk does in football - limit possessions, keep the game close, and you have a chance to win. Those types of teams tend to have better defensive numbers.

I believe this program is light years ahead of where it was when Lickliter was here. It's down a bit this year, and there's a whole lot of work to do. Do you think the program is back to where it was under Lickliter?
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That team was better than this team even when pace is included, that is why it is an Adjusted Statistic. I think the program is much healthier than it was under Lickliter but we're closer than I want it to be. I don't see any way we make the tournament next year unless we add an impact guard
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
Who's gonna be the go-to guy next year, who can create his own shot? Yikes man.
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That may be a key flaw in Fran's approach. Leaning too much on Jok now, leaned too much on Marble before. I've yet to see any real offensive rhythm from his teams. Can't seem to settle on a rotation. End of game situations look lost more often than not.

Not sure his coaching style can get us there. (His MAAC success doesn't impress me)
 
InGoodCo said:
I don't even know what that means? The last 3 years must not of mattered
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NCAA Tournament games, tanking in embarrassing fashion at the end of the year when you are in the driver's seat to win the title. He did a great job turning around the program, but he hasn't proven to be a great coach and we are not in year 3 anymore.
 
LGEND24 said:
NCAA Tournament games, tanking in embarrassing fashion at the end of the year when you are in the driver's seat to win the title. He did a great job turning around the program, but he hasn't proven to be a great coach and we are not in year 3 anymore.
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Iowa has won 2 NCAA games the last 2 seasons and finished higher than projected in the last 3 years in conference play. Is exceeding expectations for the last 3 years mean nothing or just fire the bum?
 
Hawk5656 said:
That team was better than this team even when pace is included, that is why it is an Adjusted Statistic. I think the program is much healthier than it was under Lickliter but we're closer than I want it to be. I don't see any way we make the tournament next year unless we add an impact guard
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Yeah, I realize it's an adjusted stat, but that's the limitation as well. Iowa was 327th in FGA attempts that year (2008-09). I asked this before - did you even see that Iowa team play that year?

Also, player retention was an issue under Lickliter. It's not been so far under Fran. I realize that some folks (you included) think it would be a good thing if some players left, but Lick's team was having starters and bench contributers (Kelly, Peterson, Fuller) leave and not get replaced by better players. That's a factor as well.

I think next year, the team will only be a tournament team with lots of improvement for the players that stay. I am not sure if that will happen, but let's hope it does.
 
Robowe said:
Yeah, I realize it's an adjusted stat, but that's the limitation as well. Iowa was 327th in FGA attempts that year (2008-09). I asked this before - did you even see that Iowa team play that year?

Also, player retention was an issue under Lickliter. It's not been so far under Fran. I realize that some folks (you included) think it would be a good thing if some players left, but Lick's team was having starters and bench contributers (Kelly, Peterson, Fuller) leave and not get replaced by better players. That's a factor as well.

I think next year, the team will only be a tournament team with lots of improvement for the players that stay. I am not sure if that will happen, but let's hope it does.
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Yes I watched that team. I'm not saying we're as bad as we were under Lick I'm just saying Lick did have a team better than this team
 
InGoodCo said:
Iowa has won 2 NCAA games the last 2 seasons and finished higher than projected in the last 3 years in conference play. Is exceeding expectations for the last 3 years mean nothing or just fire the bum?
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There isn't due cause to fire him now, but there will be sooner rather than later.
 
InGoodCo said:
and that's based off 1 season that he has one of the youngest rosters in the country. Got it.
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Who are we going to have at guard the next few years? Nice job recruiting 10 forwards, since that is all we need. The fact that he just lets Cook do what he wants is just sickening and the sign of an awful coach.
 
InGoodCo said:
and that's based off 1 season that he has one of the youngest rosters in the country. Got it.
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The Fran needs to go talk is premature but to be fair he put us in this situation to be this young with recruiting. It's not like we had guys declare for the draft, he knew what he needed and didn't get it
 
Hawk5656 said:
Yes I watched that team. I'm not saying we're as bad as we were under Lick I'm just saying Lick did have a team better than this team
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I am not convinced that you saw that team play. As usual, I think you know how to read stats on a web site, but that's about it. Your analysis of actual game play has not convinced me that you know anything about how the game is actually played. Sorry.
 
Robowe said:
I am not convinced that you saw that team play. As usual, I think you know how to read stats on a web site, but that's about it. Your analysis of actual game play has not convinced me that you know anything about how the game is actually played. Sorry.
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I watched them play. Just because they slowed the game down doesn't mean they were automatically worse. That team was much more fundamentally sound on the defensive side than this team
 
Hawk5656 said:
I watched them play. Just because they slowed the game down doesn't mean they were automatically worse. That team was much more fundamentally sound on the defensive side than this team
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what a dumb thing to argue, who gives a F ?
 
Hawk5656 said:
Did you read the title of this thread? You didn't have to open it
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But I did, and it's the dumbest argument on a message board I've read. There's no right or wrong answer because there's no way to prove it and there is no point but that's kind of your deal so continue.
 
InGoodCo said:
Iowa has won 2 NCAA games the last 2 seasons and finished higher than projected in the last 3 years in conference play. Is exceeding expectations for the last 3 years mean nothing or just fire the bum?
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Who's expectations?

What ever the answer, I always thought the idea was be a great as you can be...not just better than people think you are...especially when the bar is low.

2 NCAA tourney wins in 6 years is nothing brag about.
 
Hawk5656 said:
I watched them play. Just because they slowed the game down doesn't mean they were automatically worse. That team was much more fundamentally sound on the defensive side than this team
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And, just because the defensive rating was better and the offense was close (in your mind) doesn't mean the team was better. That team beat no ranked team (this one has beaten Purdue and Iowa State while they were ranked). Yes, they lost to Omaha and Memphis (who are not good). Do you rank good wins for a team better than bad losses knock a team down?

I would describe that as an up and down team with a higher celing than Lick's 2nd team. That doesn't make them worse in my eyes.
 
Robowe said:
And, just because the defensive rating was better and the offense was close (in your mind) doesn't mean the team was better. That team beat no ranked team (this one has beaten Purdue and Iowa State while they were ranked). Yes, they lost to Omaha and Memphis (who are not good). Do you rank good wins for a team better than bad losses knock a team down?

I would describe that as an up and down team with a higher celing than Lick's 2nd team. That doesn't make them worse in my eyes.
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Good wins and bad losses go hand in hand. I do agree this team has a higher ceiling but a lower floor than Lick's 2nd team
 
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