Back to the Lickliter years...
- Thread starter Stanzi
- Start date
The defense was never this bad under Lick though. I do agree it's not as bad as Lick was but it's closer than it should be
Robowe
Well-Known Member
The pace may have been a little different then too.
I lied. Our AdjD under Lickliter was 56th, 119th and 199th his last year. Right now we are 150th but our offense isn't even in the top 50
I'll give ya that. But there's two sides of the floor. I think I remember fans back then and I was kinda one of them that would rather lose a game 88 to 82 then win and lose games 52 to 48 on the regular. Look this team isn't great right now but they've shown that at home they can not only play with good teams but we've won two games I thought we had no business winning. So I'm not jumping off any cliffs with this team. Would I like to see Cook get more PT and be more aggressive at the defensive end? Heck yes. Would I like to see better defense all around? Absolutely. I think that will come with more experience and video time that they have. They are getting themselves just out of position so often it's embarrassing. That's for sure. Physically JBo is the only one out there that I think has a reason for his defensive deficiencies. The rest I think with learning and effort can improve leaps and bounds in time.
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Yeah, for anyone who thinks this is close to a Lickliter team in terms of quality of play (and watchability) wasn't really watching games back then. Here's some of the scores from his last year here:
1/5/2010 @Illinois L 42-59
1/9/2010 vs MSU L 53-71
1/30/10 @Mich L 46-60
2/3/10 vs Ill L 49-57
2/13/10 @Pur L 40-63
2/25/10 @NW L 57-74
3/3/10 @Wis L 40-67
3/7/10 @Min L 53-88
3/11/10 vs Mich L 52-59 (Big 10 tourney)
His second year team is ranked higher in KenPom than this team. His last year was the worst team I've ever watched
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
This year is rough but when comparing to Lick, we're talking about a guy that compiled the worst winning percentage of any coach in program history. I liked Lickliter well enough as a person but he was in WAY over his head in this conference. I mean, the guy didn't exactly light it up at Marian after we canned him, either.
After 3 NCAA appearances, I'm not going to scream bloody murder because we're having one bad year after losing most of last year's starting lineup. If there is no bounce back next year, and especially the year after that, then my tune will change.
I just think that this is basically going to be the result as long as we're recruiting nothing but 3* players with maybe a 4* once in a blue moon.. Might be a solid team by the time they're upper-classmen, draw a 7 seed in the big dance, and get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round. Then once all those players are gone, we'll have seasons like this. Might be nice to balance the recruiting classes a little better, too, so that we're not so far down in these types of years.
All this said, I wonder if Fran has taken us as far as he can, unless some higher quality recruits start coming in. I'm not jumping up and down about 7 seeds in the dance, but to this point, Fran > Lick and it's not even close. I know, being better than Lickliter is not saying a lot, but still.
After 3 NCAA appearances, I'm not going to scream bloody murder because we're having one bad year after losing most of last year's starting lineup. If there is no bounce back next year, and especially the year after that, then my tune will change.
I just think that this is basically going to be the result as long as we're recruiting nothing but 3* players with maybe a 4* once in a blue moon.. Might be a solid team by the time they're upper-classmen, draw a 7 seed in the big dance, and get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round. Then once all those players are gone, we'll have seasons like this. Might be nice to balance the recruiting classes a little better, too, so that we're not so far down in these types of years.
All this said, I wonder if Fran has taken us as far as he can, unless some higher quality recruits start coming in. I'm not jumping up and down about 7 seeds in the dance, but to this point, Fran > Lick and it's not even close. I know, being better than Lickliter is not saying a lot, but still.
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Robowe
Well-Known Member
His second year he had some players he inherited. They lost 60-43 at Drake (Drake shot 36% in the game and won by 17 points).
His last year he had less inherited players.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
2013-14 and 2015-16 were certainly that way. Top 10-15 in January, and completely tanked Feb/March.
Although the 2014-15 team got hot late, minus the head-scratching loss to PSU in the BTT. Then I think it was 2012-13 with the run to the NIT finals.
So it's been a mixed bag for sure on how well Fran's teams progress. Some years it's been good, other years it's been rather Alfordesque with bad meltdowns.
Lick's second year team was better than this team
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Exactly. If things aren't better a couple years from now, then get back to me, but THIS YEAR, I'm not going to be one of those types of fans.
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Lick's 2nd team beat no ranked teams. They were 15-17 overall (5-13 in the Big Ten). 3 of their Big Ten wins were in overtime and all 5 were at home. On the positive side, they did beat UNI and Iowa State that year.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/2294/year/2009
I believe the high point was an overtime victory over Wisconsin at home (see below). I was at that game and the crowd was great. The leading scorer in that game was David Palmer (21 points) who had not played in 3 previous Big Ten games and end up with 5 more DNPs (coaches' decision) the rest of the year. Then, he transferred.
Also, Jason Bohannon was playing for Wisconsin and booed every time he touched the ball. Jeff Peterson and Devan Bawinkle hit late 3s to help win that game. Wisconsin had tied the game late in regulation with a long 3 ball that totally deflated the crowd. It was exciting to see them come back to win in OT.
http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/290212294
Lick's 2nd team beat no ranked teams. They were 15-17 overall (5-13 in the Big Ten). 3 of their Big Ten wins were in overtime and all 5 were at home. On the positive side, they did beat UNI and Iowa State that year.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/2294/year/2009
I believe the high point was an overtime victory over Wisconsin at home (see below). I was at that game and the crowd was great. The leading scorer in that game was David Palmer (21 points) who had not played in 3 previous Big Ten games and end up with 5 more DNPs (coaches' decision) the rest of the year. Then, he transferred.
Also, Jason Bohannon was playing for Wisconsin and booed every time he touched the ball. Jeff Peterson and Devan Bawinkle hit late 3s to help win that game. Wisconsin had tied the game late in regulation with a long 3 ball that totally deflated the crowd. It was exciting to see them come back to win in OT.
http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/290212294
That team didn't lose to Omaha at home either. KenPom has that team ranked higher than this one
Robowe
Well-Known Member
So, did you actually watch this team play? Please describe how they were better without having to read a site like KenPom where it's just numbers. Was it the big win over Citadel (70-48) or Bryant (60-36) that impressed you?
The 4th leading scorer was Anthony Tucker, who didn't play the last half of the season. Palmer led in scoring twice and wasn't playing by the end of the season. Here's the lineup for the last game of the season (73-45 loss in the Big Ten tourney):
J.Cole
A.Fuller
D.Bawinkle
J.Kelly
M.Gatens
C.Tate
J.Davis
JR Angle
So, numbers and all, do you really think that this year's team is worse than that team? It's not all about the numbers in every case.
Yeah just no rhyme or reason to anything seems like. Even his rotations it just seems like he is guessing on who to put in or who gives us the best chance of winning. I mean Dailey just randomly enters last night out of nowhere?
That team was better defensively and wasn't much worse offensively efficiency wise
Except for when it matters.
