At what point do you hold Kirk Ferentz accountable?
- Thread starter ottoman89
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hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
IIRC, you blamed coaches and players for DJK..."Enough said"
As for the OP, only an idiot would blame another adult for the idiocy of a 20- or 21-year old kid who totes the weed a mere three weeks after a high-profile drug bust of a teammate..."Enough said" (again)
hawkforlife9
Well-Known Member
This one is Kirk's fault. He could of let him tag along to Tempe. Adam worked hard all year, he should of been able to make the bowl trip. So he made his own bowl trip.
spudhawk
Well-Known Member
Disagree, technically he was not part of the team, he hadn't earned his way to the bowl trip. It is on Adam and his friends in DSM.
You people that want to blame Ferentz for this I have a question for you- how much is the state patrolman responsible?
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
I see what you did there.
I never said Ferentz should be held accountable for this. Quite frankly, I don't believe he is. Robinson made the decision, not Ferentz.
I love when people insult others even though they fail to do what most kids are taught at a very early age, read and comprehend.
My point was very simple, Ferentz isn't held accountable for anything regarding the Iowa program so why would he be held accountable for this?
I don't want the guy fired. I just want him to answer to the issues with his program. Something he is never forced to do. No wonder he doesn't want to go to the NFL. You actually have real reporters who aren't afraid to ask tough questions during the pressers.
gohawks71
Well-Known Member
As a former U of I athlete you have to trust me on this - we aren't very smart
Well, some are but most are not. It is what it is at Iowa. A good program with a bunch of kids who are selfish, immature, and lost currently. They'll find their way and have to make detours, many of them, because of their choices. KF treats them as men and we need to stop protecting them. I'm all for KF - great guy, great coach, great leader for our program. Do we really need to only recruit guys who don't have Daddy issues? Please...
Well, some are but most are not. It is what it is at Iowa. A good program with a bunch of kids who are selfish, immature, and lost currently. They'll find their way and have to make detours, many of them, because of their choices. KF treats them as men and we need to stop protecting them. I'm all for KF - great guy, great coach, great leader for our program. Do we really need to only recruit guys who don't have Daddy issues? Please...No, a CEO is only responible for the performance of the company. I've never heard of a person getting arrested and the news commenting on his employers CEO. Why, because it happened outside of work. Just like this instance happend outside of school/football. Don't think the Coach-CEO comparison is going to work for you.
Igothawked
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree Xerxes. I do not blame KF for this particular incident with AROB. Again, AROB is suspended and is not with the team. We all understand that.
It seems like a lot of posters are trying to say that the OP is blaming KF for this particular incident. Which I don't think he is. I think the OP is trying to point out that KF is responsible for this entire program. And this program is again going through an epidemic of legal issues. Similar to those in 2007. Not as bad at this point, but if you think this is the last arrest before the 2011 football season starts, I would bet you are wrong.
I don't know exactly how you hold KF accountable. But whatever is being done currently is not working. Several players keep making bad decisions, whether it be drugs, excessive drinking, sexual assult, credit card forgery, etc. After the last epidemic they hired Chic (not sure how to spell his name). Meaning they knew there were issues and tried to do something about it. Do they need to do something again? I think they do.
Could you amend Kirk's contract to include bonuses for not having players in legal trouble? I'm sure you could. Would this encourage the coach and staff to have more organized team outings or more life coaching or meetings for players? I don't know. But, I do see a lot of the fan base saying that nothing is KF's fault. The offensive slide this year gets blamed on KOK. The defensive collapses blamed on the fact Norm isn't around. The drug charges of recent are the fault of the individuals no question. But is there a problem with the culture in this program? It seems to me like there may be.
Oh give me a break. He is the head coach. He recruited them, ergo, he takes some measures of responsibility for their actions while they are a member of the University of Iowa football team.
But hey, maybe Iowa can just become the U of the midwest? That's ok with everybody, right? We can stop reporting on all these arrests; who cares? Let DJK and ARob play in teh bowl game!
And people think Xerxes is full of it when he says that nobody ever holds Ferentz responsible for anything?
Nobody said becoming the U is ok. Nobody said to stop reporting arrests in the vein of simply accepting this. People do care and no one ever said to let DJK and Arob play in the bowl. You're arguing the camel's nose here. Just because we disagree that KF should be held responsible (your position) doesn't mean we would want or accept the above outcomes you describe.
And just because Xerxes is full of it doesn't mean you aren't.
Igothawked
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting and good post. However, if your corporation was not performing and as CEO you caught wind that some of your high level execs were out partying regularly and doing drugs and likely hindering your companies performance because of it, would you do something about it?
I'm not saying Kirk knew about the drug issues on this team, but my guess is that he has caught wind of some of the goings on. And it would be similar to football, if the company or programs reputation was that of a party atmosphere where high level players or execs are showing younger players or employees what they are doing, you tend to develop a culture in the organization. The CEO or coach would be responsible for trying to change that culture.
What, exactly, are you looking for? What has he not been held accountable for? Which "issues with the program" would you like him to answer to? Which "tough questions" are you waiting to hear the answers to? I'm just curious because, honestly, I'm not sure that the common fan knows any less about what is going on with Iowa than any other large football program in the country.
As you are considering this, please keep in mind that NFL players sign contracts that give up many of their privacy rights. College players do not. If you are looking for specifics about a player (or players), it may very well be that KF can't legally give them.
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
Right because DJK was living with a known drug dealer, the entire season. If you can't see the difference between the two, it's not my fault.
HawkofSteel
Active Member
A-Rob just needs to stay away from his south side thug buddies- but it's too late now, because that is who he has just become. Actually, he is on his way to my place right now to sell me a dime bag
I can concede to your point about culture/performance when the company is not performing well. I'm sure some will point to this fact with results during this football season, and when you consider our "what have you done for me lately" attitudes, they may even be right. I'm trying to look at the program as a whole under Ferentz. Also, you're talking about high level executives getting in trouble. I would consider ARob to be the stud in IT who helped with some network effeciency or whatever. Not trying to argue and really typed my first response in fun. If everyone wants to make Ferentz responsible, that's their opinion. I just hold adults (even if they are college age) to higher standards and should take responsibility for their own actions.
[/Quote] The offensive slide this year gets blamed on KOK. The defensive collapses blamed on the fact Norm isn't around. The drug charges of recent are the fault of the individuals no question. But is there a problem with the culture in this program? It seems to me like there may be.[/QUOTE]
I agree that it does seem like the culture is taking a hit. A hit with the court of popular opinion. I guess if you're a bottom line guy, and you sound like a bottom line guy, that the offensive and defensive struggles are KF's responsibilities. But one 7-5 season when we could have been 10-2 doesn't mean we need an overhaul. Or if it does, then does our season from last year need to be evaluated because we easily could have lost four of those games? I say the coaches and program is doing exactly what it needs to do and it is up to the kids to execute on the field, in the classroom, and on the streets. If they fail it is their fault. But if the program isn't preparing them for the field, for the classroom, or for life then it is failing. I see no evidence of that. I see evidence of little, immature premadonna's thinking they are above the program, above the team, and above the law. It happens. Hold the ones perpetrating the grievances accountable. You write as if KF is out of control and does harmful and neglectful things to erode our state pride in Iowa Football. You sound like that tool Perrault.
I agree that it does seem like the culture is taking a hit. A hit with the court of popular opinion. I guess if you're a bottom line guy, and you sound like a bottom line guy, that the offensive and defensive struggles are KF's responsibilities. But one 7-5 season when we could have been 10-2 doesn't mean we need an overhaul. Or if it does, then does our season from last year need to be evaluated because we easily could have lost four of those games? I say the coaches and program is doing exactly what it needs to do and it is up to the kids to execute on the field, in the classroom, and on the streets. If they fail it is their fault. But if the program isn't preparing them for the field, for the classroom, or for life then it is failing. I see no evidence of that. I see evidence of little, immature premadonna's thinking they are above the program, above the team, and above the law. It happens. Hold the ones perpetrating the grievances accountable. You write as if KF is out of control and does harmful and neglectful things to erode our state pride in Iowa Football. You sound like that tool Perrault.
Just to be clear here, your "epidemic of legal issues" is two arrests, correct? Two players, out of over 100, that hang out with the same individual. The first player was suspended immediately after being arrested, the other was already suspended.
I'm sorry, but I really have trouble blaming KF for these two arrests. Unless you believe that: a) The players didn't know that doing drugs was wrong/illegal, - or - b) KF facilitated the use of those drugs, it does seem like he is really to blame. Some of you seem to believe that KF is omnipotent, that he can know what all of his players are doing all of the time. That simply isn't feasible. Somewhere, you have to trust young adults to be smart enough to do the right thing.
KF and his staff constantly preach making good decisions. We have a Life coach who does nothing but remind players that they need to make good decisions. The University provides a great deal of resources to the players to help them. Ultimately, though, the players have to make their own decisions.
As for the offensive and defensive woes, shouldn't the coordinators be held responsible, first and foremost. Unless you believe that KF is making all the play calls, it seems like responsibility starts with those whose jobs are to make those calls.
I think KF is being held responsible for those things that are legitimately his: clock management, failure to have the team ready to play, etc. I think most of us assume that he is at least partically to blame for the offensive woes (the assumption being that he limits what KOK can do), but isn't in KOK's job to work and be successful under those restrictions?
Igothawked
Well-Known Member
The offensive slide this year gets blamed on KOK. The defensive collapses blamed on the fact Norm isn't around. The drug charges of recent are the fault of the individuals no question. But is there a problem with the culture in this program? It seems to me like there may be.[/QUOTE]
I agree that it does seem like the culture is taking a hit. A hit with the court of popular opinion. I guess if you're a bottom line guy, and you sound like a bottom line guy, that the offensive and defensive struggles are KF's responsibilities. But one 7-5 season when we could have been 10-2 doesn't mean we need an overhaul. Or if it does, then does our season from last year need to be evaluated because we easily could have lost four of those games? I say the coaches and program is doing exactly what it needs to do and it is up to the kids to execute on the field, in the classroom, and on the streets. If they fail it is their fault. But if the program isn't preparing them for the field, for the classroom, or for life then it is failing. I see no evidence of that. I see evidence of little, immature premadonna's thinking they are above the program, above the team, and above the law. It happens. Hold the ones perpetrating the grievances accountable. You write as if KF is out of control and does harmful and neglectful things to erode our state pride in Iowa Football. You sound like that tool Perrault.[/QUOTE]
I am not trying to make it sound like KF is out of control and I do not want to sound like Perrault. The basic point of my posts is that there is something going on with the culture of this team. In 2007 they basically raided and got rid of the bad apples (For the most part). But the on field production suffered because of it.
It seems like that is starting to happen again this year. I think the on field performance ties into this. I mean there was/is a lot of talent on this team. I just think something needs to change with the atmosphere surrounding this team. What that is, I don't know. I hope KF can figure out what it is and make it happen.
I agree that it does seem like the culture is taking a hit. A hit with the court of popular opinion. I guess if you're a bottom line guy, and you sound like a bottom line guy, that the offensive and defensive struggles are KF's responsibilities. But one 7-5 season when we could have been 10-2 doesn't mean we need an overhaul. Or if it does, then does our season from last year need to be evaluated because we easily could have lost four of those games? I say the coaches and program is doing exactly what it needs to do and it is up to the kids to execute on the field, in the classroom, and on the streets. If they fail it is their fault. But if the program isn't preparing them for the field, for the classroom, or for life then it is failing. I see no evidence of that. I see evidence of little, immature premadonna's thinking they are above the program, above the team, and above the law. It happens. Hold the ones perpetrating the grievances accountable. You write as if KF is out of control and does harmful and neglectful things to erode our state pride in Iowa Football. You sound like that tool Perrault.[/QUOTE]
I am not trying to make it sound like KF is out of control and I do not want to sound like Perrault. The basic point of my posts is that there is something going on with the culture of this team. In 2007 they basically raided and got rid of the bad apples (For the most part). But the on field production suffered because of it.
It seems like that is starting to happen again this year. I think the on field performance ties into this. I mean there was/is a lot of talent on this team. I just think something needs to change with the atmosphere surrounding this team. What that is, I don't know. I hope KF can figure out what it is and make it happen.
Silvan, when KF recruited Robinson, he didn't have any issues. Should KF be held accountable for not being a psychic too? Your posts don't hold any water. I'm guessing your a cyclone, hoping that KF gets fired so that you have a chance at beating us once again.
