STILLBUSTER
Well-Known Member
Keep 'im = tomayto
Cut 'im = tomahto
F it, let's call the whole thing off ... http://www.firekirk.com/
Anyone NOT Want To See Ferentz Go? If So .....
- Thread starter MelroseHawkins
- Start date
Keep 'im = tomayto
Cut 'im = tomahto
F it, let's call the whole thing off ... http://www.firekirk.com/
My thoughts as well. I have a lot of respect for the clean program he has ran, the moral integrity of the man, and his coaching skills (back in the day). I so wish he would take more of a manager's role and hire the right staff, support them and give them the tools they need to run their respective areas as they see fit in the right way (obey the rules, moral integrity, etc), steer them if they diverge from this - yet let the specialists run their respective areas as they see fit.
I just don't think he has this in him, and unless he has an epiphany, he needs to find an exit strategy or be shown one.
BILLBUCKNER
Well-Known Member
AreWeThereYet;1370084[B said:
Agree, Wiscy sure got it right.Not only one of the smoothest transitions,but Wiscy got one hell of an AD to boot. I never imagined he would work out so well in that role. I don't think its smart to fire a coach like Pellini unless you have his replacement identified and theres an agreement they'll take the job once its available.
eyekwah
Well-Known Member
Most people critical of the state of Iowa Football are focused on the head coach right now because they are rightfully disappointed in the regular season. The expectations were that the team was capable of much more and it is the head coaches fault that those expectations were not met. If the head coach is so bad why would Iowa fans even have expectations?
As a loyal fan of 60 year I have seen the the worst and the best of Iowa Football. When I analyze the state of the football program I'm not going to dwell on the season just ended. Instead I am going to look at where college football is headed long term. There are some major issues that are ahead for all teams. Does Iowa have a coach that will be able to deal with those issues? Let's take a look at the freshman rules for eligibility beginning in 2016. What happens when the freshmen recruits are told they cannot practice or play in games because they didn't score well enough on entrance exams? The coaches that looked first to see if the recruit can qualify and remain eligible are going to look pretty smart. The head coach at Iowa has been able to achieve a degree of success and a good graduation rate by working with recruits that project to graduate.
Off the field do the facilities attract interest from recruits? Has Ferentz been able to get Iowa into a competitive position with its facilities? If you have seen photos of the new football offices that would not have happened without a push from Ferentz.
Reflecting back over this season and compared to two years ago did anyone see more risk taking on offense? I did. Going for a first down on fourth down went way up. Often calls were made for longer passes, but if the QB doesn't find wide open receivers it is hard to justify saying they weren't trying to open it up. On defense we seen some more blitzing and stunts on third downs. Whether the change is apparent or not at least there has been some attempt to take greater risk.
I listened to a commenter talk about Michigan. The comment was maybe Michigan is suffering from the same mentality that Nebraska is going through. The conditions under which much of their success occurred no longer exist. Overall the Big Ten is operating under a different mentality when it comes to over-signing, having academic admission standards, and football being one of many sports. The comments Sally Mason made about Kentucky tells you alot about where the academic community of the Big Ten is at. Similar comments are coming from the PAC 12 and do not be surprised to see the ACC echo the need for changes regarding cleaning up football and the issues related to concussions, off the field behavior, and the alarming costs to operate a program.
Changing coaches in the midst of a turbulent time, with realignment creating much of it, is not the wisest thing to do. As of yesterday there were 9 head coach positions open and one program being eliminated. When you need a steady hand to guide you then Ferentz looks pretty good.
As a loyal fan of 60 year I have seen the the worst and the best of Iowa Football. When I analyze the state of the football program I'm not going to dwell on the season just ended. Instead I am going to look at where college football is headed long term. There are some major issues that are ahead for all teams. Does Iowa have a coach that will be able to deal with those issues? Let's take a look at the freshman rules for eligibility beginning in 2016. What happens when the freshmen recruits are told they cannot practice or play in games because they didn't score well enough on entrance exams? The coaches that looked first to see if the recruit can qualify and remain eligible are going to look pretty smart. The head coach at Iowa has been able to achieve a degree of success and a good graduation rate by working with recruits that project to graduate.
Off the field do the facilities attract interest from recruits? Has Ferentz been able to get Iowa into a competitive position with its facilities? If you have seen photos of the new football offices that would not have happened without a push from Ferentz.
Reflecting back over this season and compared to two years ago did anyone see more risk taking on offense? I did. Going for a first down on fourth down went way up. Often calls were made for longer passes, but if the QB doesn't find wide open receivers it is hard to justify saying they weren't trying to open it up. On defense we seen some more blitzing and stunts on third downs. Whether the change is apparent or not at least there has been some attempt to take greater risk.
I listened to a commenter talk about Michigan. The comment was maybe Michigan is suffering from the same mentality that Nebraska is going through. The conditions under which much of their success occurred no longer exist. Overall the Big Ten is operating under a different mentality when it comes to over-signing, having academic admission standards, and football being one of many sports. The comments Sally Mason made about Kentucky tells you alot about where the academic community of the Big Ten is at. Similar comments are coming from the PAC 12 and do not be surprised to see the ACC echo the need for changes regarding cleaning up football and the issues related to concussions, off the field behavior, and the alarming costs to operate a program.
Changing coaches in the midst of a turbulent time, with realignment creating much of it, is not the wisest thing to do. As of yesterday there were 9 head coach positions open and one program being eliminated. When you need a steady hand to guide you then Ferentz looks pretty good.
A bunch of down votes given to a poster who was asked to state the positives around KF as the head coach at Iowa. I thought he did a pretty good job of answering the question. Down votes are easy; if you have something important to say, comment on the post and commit to seeking credibility.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Terrific post. Yes, programs could really help themselves out much more with a gameplan. Wisky did it two coaches in a row. Anderson also came in and didn't miss a beat. They have become a model for how to hire & transition new coaches and keeping the train rolling. It must be something in their brats over there in Wisky land. I want some of what they're eating!
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Wow. You aren't interested in becoming a college AD at your age, are you? Well done sir.
HawgEyeState
Banned
WOW, Great, Wise post sir!
Iowa was within 5 points of beating the Cheezeheads and the Cornholers to go to INDY, for **** sake
Yes, this season didn't pan out, like all Hawkeye fans wanted. However, there will be a time for a coaching change, but
it AIN'T RIGHT now GO HAWKS
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
Look at what's going on on the field. That's the primary job first and foremost.
If that's not getting done than the rest doesn't matter. That's how modern sports work.
DesMoinesHawki
Well-Known Member
Kirk, the person, is a great man. He has done a lot for Iowa football, for the university, and for the community. I have met Kirk on several occasions and you won't find a more personable individual. That's why it's hard to root against him but it's simply a time for a changing of the guard. Kirk had a great run at Iowa (i.e. 2003, 03, 04) and now that vibe is gone. Yes, we still do a good job at developing NFL players and that is one of the biggest head scratchers for me ... we spit out NFLers left and right and yet we spit out 7-5, 4-8, 7-5 teams ... I wish Kirk's swan song would not have to be getting so ugly ... but it's time for Iowa football to move forward ... There is just too much "noise" in Hawkeyeland for Kirk to continue to be coach beyond next year ... Our fanbase deserves more.
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
I hear what you are saying, but for me, the down vote is for using the tired worn out cliche "be careful what you wish for." That is the weakest of arguments for keeping mediocrity.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
Another ten years then? Wait till it's run totally into the ground?
I'm dumbfounded by the fear of change.
Hayden stayed to long and it in no way helped the program. Considering the state of the conference Ferentz is doing worse.
There are fundamental flaws going on here that do not warrent patience.
DesMoinesHawki
Well-Known Member
You raise some wonderful points and very well-stated message. While I do think it is time to move on to a different coach after 16 seasons, I respect your opinion and agree with most of what you said. Kudos for a well thought-out message ... Kudos to being a Hawk fan for 60 years ...
sodakhawkeye
Well-Known Member
I don't want him to go, but I am not as strong in that feeling as i was in the past.
I look at the big picture of Iowa football and what he has done for it. Over the past 16 years, he has raised our expectations (which is great) to another level. The stadium is at its capacity nearly every weekend. The facility updates are awesome. He runs a clean program. We dont have the NCAA knocking down our door.
I love to hear what former players say and so many of them speak very highly of what Kirk taught them while at IA. Most of the complainers usually had some issue. I value their opinion as well, but probably not as high as someone like Pat Angerer.
His stubborness is a fault. I once heard that he was upset when he got a new pair of shoes. No denying that.
I believe he is loyal to a fault. Kirk expects things done the correct way, basically his way. You have to earn a spot on the field. he doesnt give those things out. He has high expectations for his players. When you have a kid bust his tale every day and do everything you ask, it is hard to not play him because someone else is more athletic, but may be lazier. It is hard to make that change. We live in an entitlement society. Kids are given so much with so little expectation. When kids get to Iowa (and other places) and they place expectations on them kids struggle.
Do i get frustrated on game days? Absolutely. I have been on the CJB bandwagon for quite a while. I was told before the NW game that CJB was going to play a lot in that game. he didnt, but i didnt have a problem with it bc JR played really well. After that, the 2 qb system seemed to go out the door that day and that was frustrating to me. The game where we had 5 consecutive 3 and outs and no CJB was horribly frustrating.
For me, bottom line is as a father would i want my son to play football for Kirk Ferentz and that answer is yes, 100x's over.
I look at the big picture of Iowa football and what he has done for it. Over the past 16 years, he has raised our expectations (which is great) to another level. The stadium is at its capacity nearly every weekend. The facility updates are awesome. He runs a clean program. We dont have the NCAA knocking down our door.
I love to hear what former players say and so many of them speak very highly of what Kirk taught them while at IA. Most of the complainers usually had some issue. I value their opinion as well, but probably not as high as someone like Pat Angerer.
His stubborness is a fault. I once heard that he was upset when he got a new pair of shoes. No denying that.
I believe he is loyal to a fault. Kirk expects things done the correct way, basically his way. You have to earn a spot on the field. he doesnt give those things out. He has high expectations for his players. When you have a kid bust his tale every day and do everything you ask, it is hard to not play him because someone else is more athletic, but may be lazier. It is hard to make that change. We live in an entitlement society. Kids are given so much with so little expectation. When kids get to Iowa (and other places) and they place expectations on them kids struggle.
Do i get frustrated on game days? Absolutely. I have been on the CJB bandwagon for quite a while. I was told before the NW game that CJB was going to play a lot in that game. he didnt, but i didnt have a problem with it bc JR played really well. After that, the 2 qb system seemed to go out the door that day and that was frustrating to me. The game where we had 5 consecutive 3 and outs and no CJB was horribly frustrating.
For me, bottom line is as a father would i want my son to play football for Kirk Ferentz and that answer is yes, 100x's over.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
I don't want to see him gone just to get rid of him. By that I mean I don't want to can a coach simply to go out looking for someone who might right the ship. There's going to be a great deal of turnover nationwide this season (look no further than what is going on in the BIG this past week) and I don't know that based on the programs looking to replace coaches we'd be able to bring in the best options available and may have to settle.
Nobody can read minds or see the future. I simply don't think Stoops or Bielema are legitimate options at this point and with the buyout looming over heads I simply don't see a big name/ big contract guy coming in. I'm concerned over an O' crap hire when they realized the top targets are no longer available or interested and suddenly they're "settling" on someone they had no interest in initially.
If the right guy is out there and its known that he's a sure thing to replace KF then so be it, but don't do it just to do it. I'm a glass half-full guy and believe that it could get a lot worse.
Nobody can read minds or see the future. I simply don't think Stoops or Bielema are legitimate options at this point and with the buyout looming over heads I simply don't see a big name/ big contract guy coming in. I'm concerned over an O' crap hire when they realized the top targets are no longer available or interested and suddenly they're "settling" on someone they had no interest in initially.
If the right guy is out there and its known that he's a sure thing to replace KF then so be it, but don't do it just to do it. I'm a glass half-full guy and believe that it could get a lot worse.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
I should also add that as posted previously there's not many better human beings in the business. It's not simply about X's and O's and football. I want a man of integrity as the face of the program and I think KF is just that, a great human being. That said I wish he'd make some hires that could get the X's and O's ironed out and get the program pointed in the right direction again.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I am personally on the fence and could go either way as not sure who Iowa could get. I like his integrity as well & the fact they play like an NFL team. I could not say I could go either way in the past as I have always supported him. But looking at the numbers, he's pretty much a .500 winning % coach & under .500 in conference since 2010. Teams routinely play down to the level of the opponent regardless of the level of team playing. But, they also can play up to the level of a superior team.
The scales may have tipped for me more this year with the handling of the players that should have seen more playing time (Parker, Wadley, CJ). I have a hard time getting by that stubbornness. The college game is not perfect like in the NFL. KF needs to realize this & let the young players play more loose & not scared to make a mistake. I always thought he may get more out of his players & team if he allowed them to play more loose even thought they may make a mistake every once-in-awhile. I think striving for the team to be so structured & tight impedes them to a point. That's why Iowa routinely plays within 3-7 points of teams. They used to win these kinds of games in the past, but not so much lately. Seriously, a college team can play better loose with occasional mistakes than it can tight.
The scales may have tipped for me more this year with the handling of the players that should have seen more playing time (Parker, Wadley, CJ). I have a hard time getting by that stubbornness. The college game is not perfect like in the NFL. KF needs to realize this & let the young players play more loose & not scared to make a mistake. I always thought he may get more out of his players & team if he allowed them to play more loose even thought they may make a mistake every once-in-awhile. I think striving for the team to be so structured & tight impedes them to a point. That's why Iowa routinely plays within 3-7 points of teams. They used to win these kinds of games in the past, but not so much lately. Seriously, a college team can play better loose with occasional mistakes than it can tight.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
This is the poorest reason to hang on to a coach that I can think of.. Keeping the status quo because you're afraid of doing worse. Making a change might work out, too.
Besides, Kirk Ferentz is no longer producing the same kind of results Tom Davis did. It isn't 2002-04 anymore......
TD's last 4 years:
1995-96: NCAA 2nd round (6 seed)
1996-97: NCAA 2nd round (8 seed - 2nd place Big Ten finish)
1997-98: NIT
1998-99: Sweet 16
KF's last 4 years:
2011: 7-6
2012: 4-8
2013: 8[5
2014: 7-5
I'm sure at least a couple of Tom Davis's teams in that 4 year stretch finished ranked, and that's out of 300+ D1 teams. KF hasn't produced a single ranked team in the last four years, and that's out of a little over 100 teams, where it technically should be much easier to be ranked compared to college hoops, with roughly a third as many teams competing for a spot in the Top 25.
No, I don't think the "remember Tom Davis" drivel really applies anymore.
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1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
I agree - I hope that if/when Iowa makes a change, that they have someone pretty much already lined up. It seems like a very poor idea to just can Ferentz and then start looking, and hope that you can get someone decent. Have a plan, and THEN pull the trigger.
