CRHawk2002
Well-Known Member
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Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III
- Thread starter BroderickHawk
- Start date
aaron rodgers was a top ten talent and graded as such but fell in the draft. alex smith was not a sure thing as he played in the same urban meyer offense that created tim tebow. i will admit that smith was a better passer coming out of college but he had work to do coming from the meyer spread. he has done his work and is now doing well. i do not believe he was heads and tails rated above rodgers. remember rodgers was in the green room which means they thought he could go very high.
thejumper5
Well-Known Member
I take Luck #1, and I think he'll go #1. I also think RG3 will be one of the great consolation prizes in sports draft history. I think they both have HOF potential. Here's how I would grade them out in comparison to each other:
Short/Intermediate Accuracy--Luck
Deep Accuracy--Griffin
Open-Field Athleticism--Griffin
Pocket Mobility--Luck (Luck moves within the pocket as well as any college QB ever IMHO. He's close to Tom Brady's level right now)
Intelligence--Push
Leadership--Push
Readiness Right Now--Luck
Long Term Ceiling--Push (Frankly, they both have the tools to be a top-5 all-time QB)
Ability/Willingness to be a Backup--Griffin (This may come into play for the Colts)
I think they are both High A and maybe A+ QB prospects. Either one would go #1 in 90% of NFL drafts. The difference right now (and I've seen each play about a dozen full games) is that Luck worked with a complex, NFL-style playbook in college while Griffin worked with a really "basic" college style offense (primarily a modified veer/read-option run mostly out of shotgun) and Baylor didn't have much of a playbook.
Short/Intermediate Accuracy--Luck
Deep Accuracy--Griffin
Open-Field Athleticism--Griffin
Pocket Mobility--Luck (Luck moves within the pocket as well as any college QB ever IMHO. He's close to Tom Brady's level right now)
Intelligence--Push
Leadership--Push
Readiness Right Now--Luck
Long Term Ceiling--Push (Frankly, they both have the tools to be a top-5 all-time QB)
Ability/Willingness to be a Backup--Griffin (This may come into play for the Colts)
I think they are both High A and maybe A+ QB prospects. Either one would go #1 in 90% of NFL drafts. The difference right now (and I've seen each play about a dozen full games) is that Luck worked with a complex, NFL-style playbook in college while Griffin worked with a really "basic" college style offense (primarily a modified veer/read-option run mostly out of shotgun) and Baylor didn't have much of a playbook.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Vince Young is no Mike Vick, lets start there. 2nd RG3 is just leaving College and as is par for the course, he gets more creed than someone who has been there. I guess I just don't get it. Honestly, I sometimes think people have an agenda that they desperately want these spread guys to make it big when time after time they do not...
The foot work and the reading defenses has proven to be the most difficult thing for these guys to get down...
And the guys that have consistently made a lifetime of good scouting decisions appear more interested in taking Luck over RG3 and it isn't because his upside is less than RG3. I honestly wonder what people are looking at....a better upside, really?! They are hoping, "stressing hoping" Luck can replace Manning, so...if that is the case what is RG3's upside?!I'm interested, better than Manning, or Brady, or lets say Randall Cunningham, or how about Steve Young, a guy with a better arm, an even better head and also ran a 4.5 type 40?!
Finally a guy does 2 years in Leavenworth for dog fighting, comes out, takes all the blame, never blames anyone else and still gets a bad shake from people.....thank goodness no one gets to see into our lives eh guys?!
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cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
I wanted to add I'm not challenging you and I mean that. I don't necessarily agree with you on some things but your opinion is never haughty or mean spirited and although I don't agree per se, you present it with respect. I just don't understand the way people see things and then how they present it....that's all. I like RG3 and I like Baylor, but Luck is an incredible athlete himself and I don't in anyway see RG3 having a better upside and don't get how people are quantifying that.
Alas....I'm not paid thousands of dollars to make that decision thank goodness....
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ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
The Colts are drafting a contract for Luck as we speak. This isn't even a decision.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
The thread wasn't asking who WOULD in fact be taken #1. That's been Luck for two years. The OP asked who WE would take. I'd prefer Griffin (but in my scenario, I'm the Dolphins trading up to get him and hold a clipboard behind Manning for a couple years. Or any other team that can offer a favorable situation for him.).
This would be awesome. Rg3 already has speed and arm strength but to learn from peyton would make his weak areas better. Now I want this too happen.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
If he does in fact end up behind Peyton, Griffin will have a better career than Luck (IMO). A guy with his tools and willingness to learn, learning from the smartest passer in the history of the game? That's a frightening possibility for the rest of the league, and one that could revolutionize the position.
People are speculating he has higher upside because of his ability to extend plays with his legs. Imagine if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could extend every play several more seconds combined with their accuracy, you almost couldn't even defend them. That's only an illustration, not saying RG3 is as good as them or even necessarily any better a prospect than Luck, but there may have never been a prospect like him who combines his accuracy and world class Olympic level athleticism. It is undeniably a very formidable combination.
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tm3308
Well-Known Member
This is exactly why people say Griffin has the higher ceiling. Luck is no slouch as a pure athlete, don't get me wrong. But Griffin is an Olympic-class hurdler. Vick is the only other quarterback I can think of that had that kind of athleticism, and he was nowhere near as polished as a passer as Griffin is. Newton is right there when comparing the athleticism/passing combo. And Newton's ceiling is incredibly high, as well.
GoHawks24
Well-Known Member
How many Superbowl rings does Alex Smith have? And how many MVP's? Smith may have gotten 1 round further in the playoffs this year, but Aaron Rodgers just had one of the sickest seasons that a QB has ever had statistically. If you don't realize that Rodgers is the better QB of the 2, so far at least, then.. I don't even know what I would say.. there would be absolutely no hope for you, none brah.
GoHawks24
Well-Known Member
Basically, none of the teams drafting between SF and GB needed a QB that bad, and Steve Nolan thought that he and Aaron Rodgers may not get along all that well so he took Smith instead.
trj
Well-Known Member
This is a solid breakdown/assessment the Colts will take Luck the question is will someone trade up to get RG3 or does he slide down to the Browns with the 4th pick.
I could easily see the Skins or the Dolphins doing what TM talked about getting Peyton for the short term and trading up to get RG3 for the long term.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
GoHawks24
Well-Known Member
You've got me there I suppose, but Rodgers did attempt 35 more passes, and that's with sitting out the one game and Smith had one more playoff game so there!
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Just my opinion but I feel like this is your agenda here and it clouds you’re “upside” comment. That’s why every time they trot some cat like this out everyone gets all fired up for it, but in reality, it doesn't ever happen.
A guy with an arm like Brady will always be waaayyy be more valuable than a guy who can run, and a guy who can run won’t run for very long! “Running” or rather being able too is a completely different mindset, than throwing your way out of trouble. You don’t become Tom Brady if you can use your legs to get out of trouble, and eventually “that” goes away.
And the above is why I made my initial comment about how people process things. Maybe I’m the one who thinks wrong, really…!! But people forget Steve Young was an electric athlete, so was Doug Williams and they both proved it in the USFL…they didn’t get good until they threw it and threw it and threw it some more and quit relying on their legs. Randall Cunningham was a much better QB when he couldn’t run as well.
Everyone always gets tricked by the glitter…IMO. The best football players in the NFL are still “football” players, not the speed merchants and “athletes”…we have no clue how RG3 will throw at that level….there are way more examples of guys like him not making it, than the other way around. In fact it’s not even a debate……in fact I’m not sure there is one yet..I got on the Cam Newton train pretty quick last year and in all honestly, he didn’t throw better as the year progressed he threw worse and he is way more equipped to handle that beating than RG3.
It is my opinion that people are just desperate for a spread QB to make it big and they are outliers, In just my opinion of course.
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cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
PS......to the above post. I thought I better add a caveat to my Cam Newton thoughts. I know how we have a tendency to grasp one thing and run with it. He had a great year and I was one who said he wouldn’t and quickly changed my tune….buuuutttt, he threw more INT’s, completed a lower percentage of passes and had a lower QB rating as the year progressed. He still has a long ways to go….
Are you a complete DBag who doesn't know how to read in real life too, or is that persona exclusive to this board?
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hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
Looks like the Redskins want to make sure they don't miss out on RGIII...
Source -- Washington Redskins acquire No. 2 overall pick from St. Louis Rams - ESPN
A snippet:
Source -- Washington Redskins acquire No. 2 overall pick from St. Louis Rams - ESPN
A snippet:
