My biggest gripe about all this isn't even getting the call wrong in the moment. That is what it is with the speed of the game and the angle a ref may or may not have seen. What gets me is how even after the fact they can get them as wrong as they are... Nothing can be pissing off these coaches and frustrating the players more than that.
Amani Jones Targeting Call
- Thread starter Hawk1960
- Start date
Seeing it again...I agree the receiver pussed out and pulled back off the ball.
I did rather enjoy seeing our guy deck the eff out of a Gofer though.....
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
It is obvious that his helmet goes the side and his shoulder hits him in the chest. I think this is probably more a case of the replay official not understanding the rule, unless he/she was nearly blind. Nowadays, I suppose either one is possible.
Thawki
Well-Known Member
I think you are clueless. Do you realize there is a definition of targeting that is independent of the reaction of the player that is hit?
Thawki
Well-Known Member
So you believe it is more likely that you understand the rule than a trained official? Where were you trained on this rule interpretation or what formal training have you had in football officiating during your life?
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FB18.pdf
Targeting and Making Forcible Contact With the Crown of the Helmet
ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown of his helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6) (A.R. 9-1-3-I)
(No part of helmet was used)
Targeting and Making Forcible Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player
ARTICLE 4. No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent (See Note 2 below) with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6). (A.R. 9-1-4-I-VI)
(No contact was made to the head or neck area)
Note 1: “Targeting” means that a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators of targeting include but are not limited to:
• Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area
(No contact was made to the head or neck area)
• A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground
(No contact was made to the head or neck area)
• Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area
(No contact was made to the head or neck area)
• Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet
(Helmet wasn't used in contact)
Targeting and Making Forcible Contact With the Crown of the Helmet
ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown of his helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6) (A.R. 9-1-3-I)
(No part of helmet was used)
Targeting and Making Forcible Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player
ARTICLE 4. No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent (See Note 2 below) with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6). (A.R. 9-1-4-I-VI)
(No contact was made to the head or neck area)
Note 1: “Targeting” means that a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators of targeting include but are not limited to:
• Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area
(No contact was made to the head or neck area)
• A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground
(No contact was made to the head or neck area)
• Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area
(No contact was made to the head or neck area)
• Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet
(Helmet wasn't used in contact)
homes
Well-Known Member
Easley was subjected to a helmet to helmet hit earlier in the game, as was IKM (who had to come out of the game). Obviously, neither was called, so consistency in the call is wanting.
It was the severity of the hit that caught the attention of the refs. Did you notice how 1 flag came out then they all threw the flag - a strength in numbers move. I bet not every ref who threw a flag saw the play.
You just can't lay someone out anymore. OK. I don't like it, but I get it. Just be honest about it.
Question - Has a targeting call ever been overruled on review?
It was the severity of the hit that caught the attention of the refs. Did you notice how 1 flag came out then they all threw the flag - a strength in numbers move. I bet not every ref who threw a flag saw the play.
You just can't lay someone out anymore. OK. I don't like it, but I get it. Just be honest about it.
Question - Has a targeting call ever been overruled on review?
Part of the problem with his tackle is he did lower his head like a heat seeking missile. That's probably not technically targeting if no contact but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have called it if he kept his head and eyes up, like he's supposed to do. It was more or less a fluke if he didn't make contact.
D
DDThompson
Guest
THIS EXACTLY.
The only way there should be Thursday football is if teams have a bye on the prior Sunday.
D
DDThompson
Guest
Bad call. Jones starts to lower and ready for a hit/tackle as Minnesota WR has the ball hit his hands. Jones can’t assume the receiver won’t catch his bobble.
#1DieHardHawk
Well-Known Member
It was a borderline call.
The problem is the word "area." That allows for a significant amount of subjectivity on the part of the officials.
Jones was close to, but didn't physically contact, the neck and shoulders, but it could be interpreted as the "area." When you combine that with the violence of the hit, the officials more often than not are going to error on the side of safety for the receiver (especially when it's the home team and the crowd makes a collective loud groan...).
The bottom line is that the days of leveling a WR to dislodge the ball are in the rear view mirror. It's on the coaches and players to adjust, because it's not going away. In fact, it's probably going to get worse as more and more CTE lawsuits come into being.
The problem is the word "area." That allows for a significant amount of subjectivity on the part of the officials.
Jones was close to, but didn't physically contact, the neck and shoulders, but it could be interpreted as the "area." When you combine that with the violence of the hit, the officials more often than not are going to error on the side of safety for the receiver (especially when it's the home team and the crowd makes a collective loud groan...).
The bottom line is that the days of leveling a WR to dislodge the ball are in the rear view mirror. It's on the coaches and players to adjust, because it's not going away. In fact, it's probably going to get worse as more and more CTE lawsuits come into being.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
I understand what you're saying, but the chest is not considered part of the head or neck area. The intent of the rule is to protect the head and the neck, not the chest.
#1DieHardHawk
Well-Known Member
If you watch it in slo-mo, Amani's shoulder pad and helmet impacted the receiver's shoulder pad. Then, at impact, the receiver's face mask coils over and impacts Amani's shoulder pad for a split second. Is it anatomically the head or neck? No, but, again, that word, "area."
I personally don't think it was targeting by the strict definition of the rule, but, given the subjectivity written into the rule and the violence of the hit, many if not most officials are going to make that call, whether we as fans like it or not.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Area doesn't mean what you think it means. It simply means the whole area or surface of the neck or the whole area or surface of the head. It does not include areas adjacent to the neck or head. The chest area would be considered the extent of the chest area or surface, and the forearm area would be considered the extent of the forearm area or surface.
Definition:
ar·e·a
ˈerēə/
noun
- the extent or measurement of a surface or piece of land.
: a particular extent of space or surface or one serving a special function: such as
a: a part of the surface of the body
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
I think this very issue will be brought up in the next CBA negotiations.
No way they all saw it BUT they all HEARD it. Massive hit and a flag was on the ground. Out come all of the other hankies.
D
DDThompson
Guest
It should absolutely be. I’ve never like the idea of TNF on 3 days rest. Thursday is when most of these players say their bodies are starting to “feel better/normal” after Sunday’s game.
Either get rid of it or have a bye week before. Or if they “need” the extra viewing day, then move to Saturday when college football is done.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
The Vikings recently to play a game Sunday, then play at Los Angeles on Thursday, a four hour plane flight.
It's insane. If they're going to have the damn games they could at least make them an easy trip for the visiting team.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Yes, this is what I think to. Any hard hit will be called and at least reviewed to overturn.