There's a lot of research to show that it's not necessarily the violent hits that cause the biggest problem over time but the overall number of hits including practices. I agree, the game isn't going anywhere. Too popular, too much money. I wouldn't be surprised to see full contact in practice changed. Also, wouldn't be surprised to see full contact prior to high school eliminated.
99% have CTE. Football will be gone in 10 years. I'm serious.
- Thread starter Joshbrown
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HawkGold
Well-Known Member
I would guess you did. Back when I coached HS soccer, a player took a hard hit to the head. The trainer asked the kid to shake his head and see if there was sharp pain. The kid (an Aussie) shook his head an as his eyes glazed said no. The trainer released him to go back in. I held him out though (he was not happy and neither were his parents).
Another player took an elbow in practice (deliberate) and went for a time and couldn't see. I canceled practice for the duration of the day and took him to the clinic myself. Though he was not feeling well, the Doctor released him to play the next day. His parents weren't happy with the medical bill. The kid was 18 and all I did was take him there. I made no medical decision either way.
Concussion protocols have helped. However, having had 4 kids in sports (3 boys), I can say a lot still gets through the gate. When I was overseas, my youngest in high school at 5'11 and can dunk had a leg stress fracture and the coach asked him not to go to the doctor until after big game. I didn't know he still had concussion symptoms (if you get one during the season, you really can't fully recover during the season)...anyway the coach verbally abused him on the field for when playing corner gave up a TD to a 6'5 college basketball recruit.
It just all gets kind of stupid, even today.
I think I have CTE from years of banging my head against the wall watching Iowa football.
thinking out load is the first sign of CTE
SmokeTownHawk
Well-Known Member
Coaches like that are one player away from having the legal fight for their professional lives.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Equating this to feminization of American, you are showing the stupidization of American. There were key points to this argument.
1. Intent - as the body of research get larger, one would have to wonder about intent. Does an alcohol drinking driver INTEND to kill someone or do harm. In most all cases the answer is no.
If you spank your kid really hard repeated to get them to stop, but in the end they develop rhabdo, was your intent to have that happen.
If you know the evidence when it becomes clear, do you have intent to do harm? Intent does have omission and commission components.
2. Lack of body of evidence. Fact is that when kids pound their brains they aren't likely to die from CTE for some years to come. We do know a lot more about brain growth, and certain brain components do grow in adults. If a child is having damage, but the brain in a way repairs itself to delay CTE or make one more susceptible, is that OK?
When kids have concussions, rarely is an mri done. For sure they are not likely to use MRI's which really go into detail that use radioactive markers due to long term impact. Our insurance industries have protocols that do not normally pay for intense examination.
It will take years to develop that body of evidence. Just because there isn't any doesn't mean it won't happen.
It's kind of like fat bellies and gmo correlation as well. There are major contributors who don't want to see public universities study that. Eventually the evidence will be conclusive and we can't go back and correct the damage.
Eastern Europe is home to probably the most macho men in the world who think football is stupid.
In the end, football will decline.
Interesting article. This school I think has over 1000 kids and more like 1500 in enrollment I think. It's a university Big Ten city with educated populations.
My guess is that the more highly educated the parent, the less likely the participation in football.
http://www.illinoishomepage.net/news/local-news/football-numbers-down/787578274
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
So what will kids do to stay in shape? Spin class or soccer?
I used to practice my soccer team next to football practice. One group of kids was in shape. The other wasn't.
D
DDThompson
Guest
soccer is filled with 6'2" to 6'8" 200-280 LBers.
atomicblue224
Well-Known Member
CTE is almost same as TBI. I have no needs to explain to you because it is not easily understood.I choose to keep silent about the things i have experienced.
raumatic brain injury (TBI), also known as intracranial injury, occurs when an external force injures the brain. TBI can be classified based on severity, mechanism (closed or penetrating head injury), or other features (e.g., occurring in a specific location or over a widespread area). Head injury is a broader category that may involve damage to other structures such as the scalp and skull. TBI can result in physical, cognitive, social, emotional, and behavioral symptoms, and outcome can range from complete recovery to permanent disability or death.
Causes include falls, vehicle collisions, and violence. Brain trauma occurs as a consequence of a sudden acceleration or deceleration within the cranium or by a complex combination of both movement and sudden impact. In addition to the damage caused at the moment of injury, a variety of events in the minutes to days following the injury may result in secondary injury. These processes include alterations in cerebral blood flow and the pressure within the skull. Some of the imaging techniques used for diagnosis include computed tomography and magnetic resonance imaging (MRIs).
Prevention measures include use of protective technology in vehicles, such as seat belts and sports or motorcycle helmets, as well as efforts to reduce the number of collisions, such as safety education programs and enforcement of traffic laws. Depending on the injury, treatment required may be minimal or may include interventions such as medications, emergency surgery or surgery years later. Physical therapy, speech therapy, recreation therapy, occupational therapy and vision therapy may be employed for rehabilitation. Counseling, supported employment, and community support services may also be useful.
TBI is a major cause of death and disability worldwide, especially in children and young adults. Males sustain traumatic brain injuries more frequently than do females. The 20th century saw developments in diagnosis and treatment that decreased death rates and improved outcome.
raumatic brain injury (TBI), also known as intracranial injury, occurs when an external force injures the brain. TBI can be classified based on severity, mechanism (closed or penetrating head injury), or other features (e.g., occurring in a specific location or over a widespread area). Head injury is a broader category that may involve damage to other structures such as the scalp and skull. TBI can result in physical, cognitive, social, emotional, and behavioral symptoms, and outcome can range from complete recovery to permanent disability or death.
Causes include falls, vehicle collisions, and violence. Brain trauma occurs as a consequence of a sudden acceleration or deceleration within the cranium or by a complex combination of both movement and sudden impact. In addition to the damage caused at the moment of injury, a variety of events in the minutes to days following the injury may result in secondary injury. These processes include alterations in cerebral blood flow and the pressure within the skull. Some of the imaging techniques used for diagnosis include computed tomography and magnetic resonance imaging (MRIs).
Prevention measures include use of protective technology in vehicles, such as seat belts and sports or motorcycle helmets, as well as efforts to reduce the number of collisions, such as safety education programs and enforcement of traffic laws. Depending on the injury, treatment required may be minimal or may include interventions such as medications, emergency surgery or surgery years later. Physical therapy, speech therapy, recreation therapy, occupational therapy and vision therapy may be employed for rehabilitation. Counseling, supported employment, and community support services may also be useful.
TBI is a major cause of death and disability worldwide, especially in children and young adults. Males sustain traumatic brain injuries more frequently than do females. The 20th century saw developments in diagnosis and treatment that decreased death rates and improved outcome.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Atomic, maybe I've had too many concussions (actually I have), but I'm not understanding where you are going with this.
Joshbrown
Well-Known Member
As far as longtime sports broadcaster Bob Costas is concerned, the future of football in the United States is clear — and bleak.
“The reality is that this game destroys people’s brains," he said Tuesday night.
Speaking at a roundtable discussion at the University of Maryland, Costas, who hosted Football Night in America on NBC for more than a decade, said the sport could collapse over time, barring a development in technology to make it reasonably safe. He said the decline of football, which was once “a cash machine,” is the most significant story in American sports.
“The cracks in the foundation are there,” Costas said. “The day-to-day issues, as serious as they may be, they may come and go. But you cannot change the nature of the game. I certainly would not let, if I had an athletically gifted 12- or 13-year-old son, I would not let him play football.”
Kornheiser likened football's trajectory to that of boxing, saying that safety concerns could make the game obsolete in the coming decades.
“It’s not going to happen this year, and it’s not going to happen in five years or 10 years," Kornheiser said. "But Bob is right: At some point, the cultural wheel turns just a little bit, almost imperceptibly, and parents say, ‘I don’t want my kids to play.’ And then it becomes only the province of the poor, who want it for economic reasons to get up and out.
"If they don’t find a way to make it safe, and we don’t see how they will ... the game's not going to be around. It's not."
Costas added that existing literature and research will eventually lead families to what he called a “common-sense conclusion," that children should not play tackle football until they’re 18, if they play at all.
But then where’s the talent pool for college? What happens to college football?” Costas continued. “The whole thing could collapse like a house of cards if people actually begin connecting the dots.”
Full story: http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...-this-game-destroys-peoples-brains/842904001/
“The reality is that this game destroys people’s brains," he said Tuesday night.
Speaking at a roundtable discussion at the University of Maryland, Costas, who hosted Football Night in America on NBC for more than a decade, said the sport could collapse over time, barring a development in technology to make it reasonably safe. He said the decline of football, which was once “a cash machine,” is the most significant story in American sports.
“The cracks in the foundation are there,” Costas said. “The day-to-day issues, as serious as they may be, they may come and go. But you cannot change the nature of the game. I certainly would not let, if I had an athletically gifted 12- or 13-year-old son, I would not let him play football.”
Kornheiser likened football's trajectory to that of boxing, saying that safety concerns could make the game obsolete in the coming decades.
“It’s not going to happen this year, and it’s not going to happen in five years or 10 years," Kornheiser said. "But Bob is right: At some point, the cultural wheel turns just a little bit, almost imperceptibly, and parents say, ‘I don’t want my kids to play.’ And then it becomes only the province of the poor, who want it for economic reasons to get up and out.
"If they don’t find a way to make it safe, and we don’t see how they will ... the game's not going to be around. It's not."
Costas added that existing literature and research will eventually lead families to what he called a “common-sense conclusion," that children should not play tackle football until they’re 18, if they play at all.
But then where’s the talent pool for college? What happens to college football?” Costas continued. “The whole thing could collapse like a house of cards if people actually begin connecting the dots.”
Full story: http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...-this-game-destroys-peoples-brains/842904001/
Joshbrown
Well-Known Member
DaCreeper is causing me to rethink my position. All of a sudden I'm much more optimistic it will continue on past the lifetime of everyone on HN.
Fryowa
Administrator
The fact that you dig up months-old threads just to obsess about me is disturbing.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
I had thought about posting this, but figured Proud Hawk might lose even more weight and look really ghastly.
I basically agree with this. I believe we are starting to see this already in overall talent. I wonder if this is something helping teams like ISU in the short term. Get a couple of really good players and tough decent but not spectacular athletes and you have a competitive team with a gamer of a coach. For Iowa it would be a mixed bag. If most everyone is playing with decent but not spectacular, you need to be a gamer in your coaching. We saw this last Saturday. You would have to have speed AND USE it. Iowa did that Saturday and looked faster than OSU minus Barrett. It's kind of like the general economy of the US. Minus the vast increase in debt, we've been in a depression since about 2001, especially the last 8 years. The middle class is dying. Yet you see incredible upside to the stock market....for awhile until as Bob says, the house of cards collapses. Where I live there are schools with 1500 kids in the high school struggling to fill freshman football teams. Our local school, a traditional power had the smallest varsity roster I can remember at about 27 kids in a school of 1000 students in the high school.
Bob isn't the first broadcaster to show misgivings about football. We saw it last year in the Outback when you think about it. I do wonder though had Bob not made his millions and in the later stages of his career, if he'd write the same article? We're all philosophers when the money is made maybe?
homes
Well-Known Member
I hope to heck that football does not go away. I love football. If I knew back when I played what I know now, I still would have played. You can't protect yourself from every evil. Some risks are worth taking, the benefits are greater than the risks, at least to me. I'm sure there will be parents who will say no to football, and that's fine. But not all parents are doing so now, and I don't think all parents will in the future. If you don't want your kid to play football, then don't let them play, but don't wag your finger at those who do. Similarly, if you do let your kid play football, don't denigrate the parents who won't. Football will have its place in American sports culture - it may not be for all, but the market will dictate its future. Unless they legislate against football (which it would not surprise me someone would try), I believe it will continue on. At least I hope so.
Tough to say about Costas, but to be fair we didn't have the information until now.
I think boxing is a good comparison. For curiosity sake, I would like to see what the participation numbers look like in that sport once Ali started showing serious signs of decline. I looked up the current heavyweight title holders in boxing - I had never heard of a single guy. 20 to 30 years ago I probably could have told you the title holder and all of the top contenders.
I think boxing is a good comparison. For curiosity sake, I would like to see what the participation numbers look like in that sport once Ali started showing serious signs of decline. I looked up the current heavyweight title holders in boxing - I had never heard of a single guy. 20 to 30 years ago I probably could have told you the title holder and all of the top contenders.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I also think Pay Per View killed boxing, at least from a viewers and fans standpoint. Once they went to that, I stopped watching and I presume I'm not the only one. ESPN would have Thursday night fights with the up and comers, but a fan would never really get to see any high profile championship bouts unless got the Pay Per View.
Fans lost interest, then lost their connection with the boxers. Once they started to not be able to know any of the boxers, there was no reason to get into it.
I think it is more this than the injury issues, although that plays into it. I'd still watch boxing if I could relate to the boxers. I can't name 3 professional boxers now. Back in the day I could name a dozen.
I agree with most of the sentiment here, however I don't know if I hope like heck football doesn't go away. I can't shake a certain sense of guilt in knowing what the physical toll these guys are put through. Yeah, they know what they are getting into... eventually. I don't think middle school kids or younger can properly gauge what they are putting their body through. I did extremely demanding construction work when I was younger, and yeah I thought I knew the cost. Now I'm 36 and I'm in constant pain. I don't know if I would have done it in hindsight.
I looked it up. School has an enrollment of 1,385 9-12. They have 12 kids out for freshman football. I was in a class of 200 and we had like 70 kids out for freshman football.
