99% have CTE. Football will be gone in 10 years. I'm serious.

hawkdrummer1 said:
One thing missing, a control. What's the incidence of CTE in other athletes? or non-athletes? Lower, no doubt...but good science always has a control. I've read that soccer players also have pretty frequent CTE, so "non-contact" soccer isn't necessarily the answer either.

The irony is that better safety gear (primarily the helmet) has led to more violent collisions...and likely more CTE.
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US Soccer banned headers in 2015 because of a lawsuit; it would be interesting to see if that had an effect.
 
HawkeyeWalker said:
I would like to see a similar comparison study on rugby. Still a very physical, violent game, just different.
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This. I'm a firm believer the helmets are causing, not preventing CTE. It's a false sense of security when you can survive hits that would instantly kill someone not wearing a helmet. It gives you incentive to take risks that you normally wouldn't.

Take Josey Jewell's targeting hit last year. If that had happened the same way and at that speed with no helmets, both of those guys would be either dead or in a nursing home right now.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Football will still probably be around, but I bet it will look much different such as taking every measure not to let players hit with heads or get hit in the head.

* No leading with head or even shoulder pad/head area - no collisions
* Must block with head straight up
* Must tackle without leading head - straight up
* Ball carrier no leading with head or diving forward in players - Pretty much run straight up

Pretty much play game straight up with no leading of the head or shoulders whatsoever. Would be even more of a technical game since much athletic ability will be suppressed.

After this would be two hand touch below the waist.
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I think it's still a little more difficult than that though, because how do you prevent the slamming heads into the turf unless you do go to flag or touch? I'd bet that most concussions and sub concussive damage done to QBs is from a defensive player wrapping them up and slamming their head into the ground. Watching those in slow motion is brutal because most of the time it's like a whip effect where their head is moving much faster and they don't get to put their arms out and slow the impact down.
 
Some of the recent rule changes (and potential future rule changes) should help reduce this but I think the ultimate answer could be in the technology of the helmets and pads. Head injuries certainly are not limited to football ... hockey, baseball, soccer, biking, rugby, boxing, MMA, motor racing, etc., all have their issues.

Good article here on helmet technology ...

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/nfl-n...yers-vicis-high-tech-helmets-spring-football/

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/zero-1-football-helmet-helps-prevent-concussions/
 
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westender said:
Just like boxing is not going away and there continues to be willing participants. And I think everyone was aware of the risks there of repeatedly getting hit in the head and many of those end in knock outs.

There are always going to be some subset of parents out there which will allow their kids to play football.
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Boxing also used to be the biggest sport out there, and now it's reduced to this may weather/Mcgregor farce.
 
It's not just football. All of my boys played soccer. One played football until a bad concussion his sophomore year. I saw the impact. One of them lives with some long term effect, though two of them are engineers and one an attorney. As a dad I feel responsible to a degree. The football concussion was from direct football contact. After the hit, he had 2 interceptions, one in the end zone and a pick six. That said, I could tell something was wrong and like all good sports parents I sat there.

The soccer concussions were rather random and of the 5, all were contact with the ball, but not intended heading. One was actually over a girl the 2 players from opposing high schools were competing over. A stellar basketball player, he didn't start his senior year from the hit at the end of September and at Christmas still struggled to catch passes. After the Holidays he got back his starting position (and got to play against a number of Big starters).

No one will convince me that there won't be long term issues. The middle son struggles with social anxiety (the other 2 not at all) and he knows somethings wrong. He does appear to be getting better.

What is interesting is that 2 of them easily get concussion symptoms from not hard contact playing pick up sports.

It is so common. Ask a parent of a player in a crowd, they'll say their kid never has had a concussion. Privately, they'll say things like....well, he did get dinged pretty hard a number of times.

I had a bike wreck several weeks ago, breaking my helmet in two places. My headaches come from the opposite side of where I hit. Been a bit groggy and sleepy. Also been on coasters where afterwards I had concussion symptoms.

I do think football helmets are part of the problem, but also a strong shoulder hit to the mid section causes a quick deceleration and then acceleration the other way. That repeatedly has to add to the problem. Getting hit or tripped and hitting the head will happen without helmets.
 
BryceC said:
Boxing also used to be the biggest sport out there, and now it's reduced to this may weather/Mcgregor farce.
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Pay Per View killed boxing. When it would be on Saturday nights and they would show quality bouts, people were into it and could relate to the boxers. Mike Tyson's, Sugar Ray Leonard, Vinny Pazziena, Larry Holmes, etc.. Now there is a disconnect because people don't watch them or relate to them. It's difficult to get into a sport where you don't relate to the players. See hockey.

Pay Per View really limited the fandom over time and only the die hards now pay to view secondary to being a pain in the azz instead of just turning to the station. I used to luv boxing and the high profile fights but when they went to Pay Per View which was when I was in my late teens, I didn't want to afford the extra $$ and decided to stick my middle finger up to boxing.

So, years down the road, MMA fighting gains steam and takes boxing's place and grabs the attention of fans. Unfortunately they are going down the same path as boxing did.
 
HawkGold said:
It's not just football. All of my boys played soccer. One played football until a bad concussion his sophomore year. I saw the impact. One of them lives with some long term effect, though two of them are engineers and one an attorney. As a dad I feel responsible to a degree. The football concussion was from direct football contact. After the hit, he had 2 interceptions, one in the end zone and a pick six. That said, I could tell something was wrong and like all good sports parents I sat there.

The soccer concussions were rather random and of the 5, all were contact with the ball, but not intended heading. One was actually over a girl the 2 players from opposing high schools were competing over. A stellar basketball player, he didn't start his senior year from the hit at the end of September and at Christmas still struggled to catch passes. After the Holidays he got back his starting position (and got to play against a number of Big starters).

No one will convince me that there won't be long term issues. The middle son struggles with social anxiety (the other 2 not at all) and he knows somethings wrong. He does appear to be getting better.

What is interesting is that 2 of them easily get concussion symptoms from not hard contact playing pick up sports.

It is so common. Ask a parent of a player in a crowd, they'll say their kid never has had a concussion. Privately, they'll say things like....well, he did get dinged pretty hard a number of times.

I had a bike wreck several weeks ago, breaking my helmet in two places. My headaches come from the opposite side of where I hit. Been a bit groggy and sleepy. Also been on coasters where afterwards I had concussion symptoms.

I do think football helmets are part of the problem, but also a strong shoulder hit to the mid section causes a quick deceleration and then acceleration the other way. That repeatedly has to add to the problem. Getting hit or tripped and hitting the head will happen without helmets.
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It may not be only concussions causing the CTE. People have to be aware of this. Concussions are the top of the bar. I think the CTE, like you stated above, can be caused by the constant jolts to the brain where the brain is constantly accelerating and decelerating or bumping into the skull, but not to the level of a concussion. It's the violent jolts over time. So, a player may have CTE that does not believe they ever had a concussion when thinking about it.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
It may not be only concussions causing the CTE. People have to be aware of this. Concussions are the top of the bar. I think the CTE, like you stated above, can be caused by the constant jolts to the brain where the brain is constantly accelerating and decelerating or bumping into the skull, but not to the level of a concussion. It's the violent jolts over time. So, a player may have CTE that does not believe they ever had a concussion when thinking about it.
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In the studies, O-lineman seem to be afflicted at the same rate or more than other players (even accounting for there being more of them on the field) and they don't get near the violent hits of a WR or LB. Getting the equivalent of a punch to the head 60 times a game and who knows how many times in practice has to be worse than two concussions spaced over 12-18 month period.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Pay Per View killed boxing. When it would be on Saturday nights and they would show quality bouts, people were into it and could relate to the boxers. Mike Tyson's, Sugar Ray Leonard, Vinny Pazziena, Larry Holmes, etc.. Now there is a disconnect because people don't watch them or relate to them. It's difficult to get into a sport where you don't relate to the players. See hockey.

Pay Per View really limited the fandom over time and only the die hards now pay to view secondary to being a pain in the azz instead of just turning to the station. I used to luv boxing and the high profile fights but when they went to Pay Per View which was when I was in my late teens, I didn't want to afford the extra $$ and decided to stick my middle finger up to boxing.

So, years down the road, MMA fighting gains steam and takes boxing's place and grabs the attention of fans. Unfortunately they are going down the same path as boxing did.
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MMA will be full of CTE. Retired guys like Liddell, Dan Henderson, BJ Penn, and especially St. Pierre are incoherent when you hear them talk nowadays. You can just see it on their faces that everything is working in slow motion. St. Pierre is scary bad.
 
Fryowa said:
MMA will be full of CTE. Retired guys like Liddell, Dan Henderson, BJ Penn, and especially St. Pierre are incoherent when you hear them talk nowadays. You can just see it on their faces that everything is working in slow motion. St. Pierre is scary bad.
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St Pierre is a native french speaker so maybe its just him trying to process english. I agree with you though.

At least with UFC a significant strike to the head and you're going down. With football its repeated head blows over and over and over. The helmet makes you think you're fine since you're not in pain, but the trauma to the brain still happens.

I stayed at a holiday inn last night.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Could there be a component of CTE that is purely biological that some people are predisposed to? Could some individuals be predisposed to have degeneration more and the contact exacerbates the condition for them? Thinking out loud. The really disconcerting point about this, is that it is being found in younger players.
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Remember the guy--I think Lyle Alzado--who blamed steroids and HGH for his brain tumor(s)? My guess is that a part of this is a distraction. Certain folks don't want to acknowledge that heavy use of PEDs has lead to some of the injury problems in the first place. By blaming the game, itself, they take the spotlight off one of the underlying problems, namely, PEDs.

Back in the days when guys my age were kids, running backs and receivers never had problems outrunning LBs and DLs. Now? Half the LBs have 40 times that RBs and WRs could never run in those days. Yes, there have been advances made in training, physiology, etc. But when you consider that EVERY SINGLE FINALIST in the 1988 Olympic 100 meters final had some history of the "juice", you can guess it was happening in other sports.

Which begs the question: is this a vicious cycle? Are PEDS creating monster athletes so that serious injuries are more common? Or are PEDS lowering "resistance" and "immunity"? Given that HGH and some steroids are SUPPOSED to help with regeneration and recuperation, is it a matter of overstimulation of parts of the brain?

Someone asked the question on talk radio today, "Why go after football?" The answer: That's where the money is. How much would an attorney profit from suing lacrosse? Rugby? Hell, try suing soccer, and you'll find out the biggest question there is, "Who the hell do I sue?" NFL and NCAA football are cash cows. But, like many who think "tearing down" is the answer to perceived injustice, folks will find that killing the goose doesn't redistribute wealth, it merely eliminates it.
 
Fryowa said:
This. I'm a firm believer the helmets are causing, not preventing CTE. It's a false sense of security when you can survive hits that would instantly kill someone not wearing a helmet. It gives you incentive to take risks that you normally wouldn't.

Take Josey Jewell's targeting hit last year. If that had happened the same way and at that speed with no helmets, both of those guys would be either dead or in a nursing home right now.
Click to expand...

Maybe go back to leather helmets? Fashionable ones, of course, but would that lessen the taking of chances?
 
Unless they suddenly develop helmet technology that greatly reduces concussions, football is going to be a fringe sport like the X-games or MMA. It won't totally die out because there's just too much money involved.
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
Unless they suddenly develop helmet technology that greatly reduces concussions, football is going to be a fringe sport like the X-games or MMA. It won't totally die out because there's just too much money involved.
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If they neuter the game there won't be much money involved anymore. People watch the game for the hits. Tom Brady's keyhole passes are cool and all, but people watch the sport to see Von Miller and JJ Watt beat QBs half to death.
 
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