2017-18 Basketball rotation... Best guess/wish list!

[HawkGold]

No true point guards? Cartwright and Dickerson were short fast black guys.

Race? seriously. And one of them didn't stay. So that's one player who had one decent pt guard year. All one has to do is watch March Madness and see good guards at lower D1 level and know it isn't a priority with Fran.

I would take Oregon's pt guard in a heart beat on ability.

You just can't seriously think Fran seriously recruits point guards. MG was committed and did get 4 years. He lacked the overall package. Fran doesn't coach 1/2 offense well and doesn't focus on it. I fully expect Iowa to have decent teams in the coming years. I don't expect a conference championship or getting beyond being Sweet.

 

[DBQHAWK85]

Race? seriously. And one of them didn't stay. So that's one player who had one decent pt guard year. All one has to do is watch March Madness and see good guards at lower D1 level and know it isn't a priority with Fran.

I would take Oregon's pt guard in a heart beat on ability.

You just can't seriously think Fran seriously recruits point guards. MG was committed and did get 4 years. He lacked the overall package. Fran doesn't coach 1/2 offense well and doesn't focus on it. I fully expect Iowa to have decent teams in the coming years. I don't expect a conference championship or getting beyond being Sweet.

I agree with this... Fran would take a great PG and even tried to get a few. BUT he does not use a PG in the traditional way so really good guards are not going to come here to end up not be a true team leader. Fran wants multiple points of attack he doesn't want it coming from the same guy over and over. That is only my opinion!

 

[NikeHawk21]

Another thing I'd mention is I wouldn't count out the possibility of the Cook/Pemsl starting frontline again. I know it didn't end up working out this year, but hear me out.

Both of these guys are good passers. I imagine both are going to be putting a substantial amount of time into their midrange games this summer. If one or both of them develop in that area I think it can work.

After reading a few of the season player reviews that I posted in another thread it sounds like some of the advanced stats thought a lot more highly of Pemsl's defense then did we (#2 on team in defensive win shares per 40 mins). There are some flaws in the advanced defensive stats no doubt, but it is kind of interesting. He certainly has the girth to defend some of the bigger posts.

Along with Bohannon, Pemsl was probably the biggest surprise this year. The kid can play. I wouldn't put it past him to earn a spot back in the starting lineup.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Race? seriously. And one of them didn't stay. So that's one player who had one decent pt guard year. All one has to do is watch March Madness and see good guards at lower D1 level and know it isn't a priority with Fran.

I would take Oregon's pt guard in a heart beat on ability.

You just can't seriously think Fran seriously recruits point guards. MG was committed and did get 4 years. He lacked the overall package. Fran doesn't coach 1/2 offense well and doesn't focus on it. I fully expect Iowa to have decent teams in the coming years. I don't expect a conference championship or getting beyond being Sweet.

I think PC is pointing out the irony. The point guards who operated more like what it sounds like you wanted, with penetrating and quicks, were two of the worst we've had.

Fran has a PG who was 1st Team All B1G freshman. He also brought in MG who was a 4* and ended up being a solid PG.

He recruited Marcus Paige, Tyler Ulis, Charlie Moore and many others extremely hard. Oh he even recruited Oregon's PG, who happens to be from Oregon. Not every recruit works out.

To say "he doesn't want a PG" is literally the dumbest thing you've said, and you say dumb things in here on a daily basis.

 

[UncleHawk]

Race? seriously. And one of them didn't stay. So that's one player who had one decent pt guard year. All one has to do is watch March Madness and see good guards at lower D1 level and know it isn't a priority with Fran.

I would take Oregon's pt guard in a heart beat on ability.

You just can't seriously think Fran seriously recruits point guards. MG was committed and did get 4 years. He lacked the overall package. Fran doesn't coach 1/2 offense well and doesn't focus on it. I fully expect Iowa to have decent teams in the coming years. I don't expect a conference championship or getting beyond being Sweet.

To directly refute your statement, yes Fran does directly recruit PGs. Paige- Roy Williams got him before Fran could establish a relationship- blame that one on Lick. Ulis- KY swooped in and got him, over us and MSU. Not Fran's fault. Dickerson- good speed but maybe not so great a BB player. Watson- didn't want to come here with 2 PGs already. Watson may have been partially a result of Fran being good at his job in developing MG and Sapp into serviceable PGs, particularly with Uthoff and Jok to set up. Moore- Cuonzo Martin slime got him. The PG situation with Fran has been like everything else in his tenure- slow and steady improvement. That frustrates some. But this improvement is continuing. JBo, after one of the best freshman PG years in Iowa history, will get better. His D will get better, partially from physical and player maturation, but also because the help D and size behind him are getting better. The team is getting markedly better talent. Quick skilled PGs in Iowa are on the horizon. Once he gets one, Fran has shown that he can sell the success of one to others. But Fran can obviously succeed without an elite speed PG. This is NOT because he hasn't pursued that skill set. And look at the other end of the spectrum. Fran hadn't gotten an elite interior talent quite like Cook before, but he DID get him. Don't worry, those who feel naked without an elite speed PG will get their wish at some point. In the meantime, enjoy and feel clothed by the increasing success of the program.

 

[HawkGold]

To directly refute your statement, yes Fran does directly recruit PGs. Paige- Roy Williams got him before Fran could establish a relationship- blame that one on Lick. Ulis- KY swooped in and got him, over us and MSU. Not Fran's fault. Dickerson- good speed but maybe not so great a BB player. Watson- didn't want to come here with 2 PGs already. Watson may have been partially a result of Fran being good at his job in developing MG and Sapp into serviceable PGs, particularly with Uthoff and Jok to set up. Moore- Cuonzo Martin slime got him. The PG situation with Fran has been like everything else in his tenure- slow and steady improvement. That frustrates some. But this improvement is continuing. JBo, after one of the best freshman PG years in Iowa history, will get better. His D will get better, partially from physical and player maturation, but also because the help D and size behind him are getting better. The team is getting markedly better talent. Quick skilled PGs in Iowa are on the horizon. Once he gets one, Fran has shown that he can sell the success of one to others. But Fran can obviously succeed without an elite speed PG. This is NOT because he hasn't pursued that skill set. And look at the other end of the spectrum. Fran hadn't gotten an elite interior talent quite like Cook before, but he DID get him. Don't worry, those who feel naked without an elite speed PG will get their wish at some point. In the meantime, enjoy and feel clothed by the increasing success of the program.

Still JB isn't a pt guard in the traditional sense. And yes the program is getting stronger.

 

[HawkGold]

I think PC is pointing out the irony. The point guards who operated more like what it sounds like you wanted, with penetrating and quicks, were two of the worst we've had.

Fran has a PG who was 1st Team All B1G freshman. He also brought in MG who was a 4* and ended up being a solid PG.

He recruited Marcus Paige, Tyler Ulis, Charlie Moore and many others extremely hard. Oh he even recruited Oregon's PG, who happens to be from Oregon. Not every recruit works out.

To say "he doesn't want a PG" is literally the dumbest thing you've said, and you say dumb things in here on a daily basis.

You have your opinion. As mentioned, Groce for years spent huge amounts of time recruiting players he never got. There are pg's that he can get. To keep striking out does signal something.

I like JB. I do think to get to the Elite level, it will likely take a traditional pg which we haven't really seen at Iowa under Fran. What is so hard to understand and accept someone's thoughts on that. If it was a priority, he would have one (traditional)

 

[PCHawk]

You have your opinion. As mentioned, Groce for years spent huge amounts of time recruiting players he never got. There are pg's that he can get. To keep striking out does signal something.

I like JB. I do think to get to the Elite level, it will likely take a traditional pg which we haven't really seen at Iowa under Fran. What is so hard to understand and accept someone's thoughts on that. If it was a priority, he would have one (traditional)

I think he would rather have an untraditional point guard like Bohannon and Gesell, than a traditional one like Cartwright and Dickerson. And that makes sense because the better the player is, the better the team is, regardless of tradition.

 

[HawkGold]

I think he would rather have an untraditional point guard like Bohannon and Gesell, than a traditional one like Cartwright and Dickerson. And that makes sense because the better the player is, the better the team is, regardless of tradition.

Exactly. In fairness to the mentioned guards, the weren't a fit to Fran's system.

 

[HawkGold]

I think PC is pointing out the irony. The point guards who operated more like what it sounds like you wanted, with penetrating and quicks, were two of the worst we've had.

Fran has a PG who was 1st Team All B1G freshman. He also brought in MG who was a 4* and ended up being a solid PG.

He recruited Marcus Paige, Tyler Ulis, Charlie Moore and many others extremely hard. Oh he even recruited Oregon's PG, who happens to be from Oregon. Not every recruit works out.

To say "he doesn't want a PG" is literally the dumbest thing you've said, and you say dumb things in here on a daily basis.

I take people who like to insult others opinions.....well it's pretty unintelligent.

 

[UncleHawk]

You have your opinion. As mentioned, Groce for years spent huge amounts of time recruiting players he never got. There are pg's that he can get. To keep striking out does signal something.

I like JB. I do think to get to the Elite level, it will likely take a traditional pg which we haven't really seen at Iowa under Fran. What is so hard to understand and accept someone's thoughts on that. If it was a priority, he would have one (traditional)

Traditional PGs under Fran: Cartwright, Sapp, Dickerson. Untraditional PGs: Gesell, JB, CW
The numbers of each look fairly even to me. Fran takes what he can get and makes the best lemonade he can. But the lemonade is getting better. Based on the numbers, we're due for some traditional PGs, I'm guessing in 2019.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I take people who like to insult others opinions.....well it's pretty unintelligent.

Fran wants to be great. He makes decisions based on what he believes will be for the greater good of the team, as PC noted. That's certainly doesn't mean his decisions are always right. If Fran thought he had a realistic shot at Lonzo Ball or De'Aaron Fox you can bet he'd have worked his tail off to try and land them. Fran absolutely wants an elite PG, as he wants elite players at every position.

Saying "Fran doesn't WANT a great PG" is patently false, and got the reply it deserved. If you actually believe that you either:

A. Have a complete lack of understanding for what the word WANT means

Or

B. Are a hater who just likes to stir the pot.

 

[deanvogs]

I take people who like to insult others opinions.....well it's pretty unintelligent.

You insult me and my opinions all the time.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Traditional PGs under Fran: Cartwright, Sapp, Dickerson. Untraditional PGs: Gesell, JB, CW
The numbers of each look fairly even to me. Fran takes what he can get and makes the best lemonade he can. But the lemonade is getting better. Based on the numbers, we're due for some traditional PGs, I'm guessing in 2019.

What makes Sapp a more traditional PG than MG? From all accounts I have heard MG was every bit as athletic. Don't think either was anything special as a ball handler, but both serviceable. The only PG area I can see Sapp as slightly better was using a screen and roll.

All the advanced statistics would favor MG in terms of PG play (assist %, turnover %).

The thing about the traditional PG argument is its such a moving target. That's what bothers me the most about it. Give me a good player at PG all day no matter what he looks like. I think we have one right now.

I do agree Fran will continue to improve the position going forward. I have no reason to think otherwise.

 

[DBQHAWK85]

2017 is over and there are mixed feelings on the results. I think almost all of us agree the future is bright. So how about we focus on the future for a little bit?

My best guess and WISH LIST for next years starters and rotation by position to make it easier to follow. Hopefully!

Starters
PG JoBo
SG Moss
SF Jack Nunge
PF Tyler Cook
C Luka Garza

first rotation...
PG Connor Mccaffery
SG Ellingson
SF Baer Claw
PF Kriener
C Pemsl

second rotation...
PG Maishe Dailey or Williams whichever stays?
F Wagner / Uhl Whichever stays?

Caveat I do concede that the SF/F- PF- C spots are very interchangeable with this team so lets not get lost in that debate Please!

Jones will move on I think. That leaves Connor to walk on or one of many other possible options but I think he will play for his dad some way.

WHY the freshman????
Nunge appears to be a more aggressive version of Jarred Uthoff from what I have seen from his tapes and watching a FEW games.

Garza has true C size, skill set and ability! From his tapes and recruiting he could be the most talented and complete C Fran has ever had.

Yeah I get it that it is only highlight tapes and limited views from High school.

The starting 5 is as close to a traditional 5 Fran has ever had and IMHO will be the most talented by far.

I think we will have a much better than expected result and yet there will be some questionable nights as we saw this year. Fran seems to coach a very wide ranging open or free style of play that invites those things.

Hopefully we will see in-game coaching improvements and a better answer to late game and close game outcomes from Fran. That needs to improve a lot but overall I like the style of play. It's just not working well in close games and high pressure games. Nervous and inexperienced players don't execute well with Fran's standard game plan.

what do you think?

First night of PTL and I am now more convinced that these freshman will be playing major roles at the very least this year. one of the two will be starting by BIG play.

Handles looked good for both and hustle and athleticism was what I expected.

Kreiner and Daily were very big surprises and loved the growth from Cook and Moss.

What do you all think Now?

 

[ibahawkeye]

1. Another thing I'd mention is I wouldn't count out the possibility of the Cook/Pemsl starting frontline again. I know it didn't end up working out this year, but hear me out.
   
   Both of these guys are good passers. I imagine both are going to be putting a substantial amount of time into their midrange games this summer. If one or both of them develop in that area I think it can work.
   
   After reading a few of the season player reviews that I posted in another thread it sounds like some of the advanced stats thought a lot more highly of Pemsl's defense then did we (#2 on team in defensive win shares per 40 mins). There are some flaws in the advanced defensive stats no doubt, but it is kind of interesting. He certainly has the girth to defend some of the bigger posts.
   
   Along with Bohannon, Pemsl was probably the biggest surprise this year. The kid can play. I wouldn't put it past him to earn a spot back in the starting lineup.

   
   I think you need to have at least one guy in the front court that can be a threat to shoot from outside.
   
   I think we have 6 guys who should compete for minutes and I would put them in groups.
   
   Group 1: Cook, Pemsl, Wagner
   Group 2: Nunge, Kriener, Garza
   
   I would prefer to see 1 guy from each group. The 2nd group has the guys that are more of an outside shooting stretch. I think to space the floor and stretch the D you need 3-4 3 pt shooting threats on the floor at all times.

 

[DBQHAWK85]

Let me dust this old post off just to gloat a little bit...

We have the PTL and the Europe trip as direct evidence to help paint a clearer picture....

Our freshman just got 10 extra practices and four full games to get up to speed and build chemistry.

I think my starting five will have a 80% chance to happen by the big regular season start.

How you all feeling now?????

 

[NikeHawk21]

Let me dust this old post off just to gloat a little bit...

We have the PTL and the Europe trip as direct evidence to help paint a clearer picture....

Our freshman just got 10 extra practices and four full games to get up to speed and build chemistry.

I think my starting five will have a 80% chance to happen by the big regular season start.

How you all feeling now?????

Are you talking about your OP which had Nunge starting at the 3? None of what we saw in the four game tour would indicate Nunge will play the 3 at all. Actually it now appears they are set on Wagner being primarily a 3 along with Baer and maybe Uhl.

 

[ibahawkeye]

At this point I think the only remaining question is where Fran feels Baer can be most valuable... starting or 6th man.

I think he should start Baer. I think it's our best lineup with him so why not try to start ahead. My only concern is playing Baer too many minutes. We don't need him to change his style of play. Now instead of a spark off the bench. We need him to set the tone from the tip.

 

[QChawkness]

I'm flip flopping again with the frontcourt. Garza right now looks to be the best option playing alongside Cook. With him in the lineup I think we'll see Cook drive a whole lot more.