You Might Be Late to The Iowa Basketball Party If...

wundergrape said:
This. The thread was predicated on calling out people who only started paying attention the last two years. People act like these two are the twin pillars of our program.

The truth is, fans ripped both of these players unmercifully for their first three years. Let me be clear: I like both Matt and Eric. I don't like hypocritical fans, though.
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They were both incredibly frustrating to watch and both continued to make the same mistakes over and over again until they were seniors.

I have no problem with people being critical of that and then being appreciative of them when they do things better.
 
RocknRollface said:
They were both incredibly frustrating to watch and both continued to make the same mistakes over and over again until they were seniors.

I have no problem with people being critical of that and then being appreciative of them when they do things better.
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Let's be honest here. Gatens was forced into a role--all the way through his junior year--that he would not have been in other programs--that of a primary or secondary scorer. If he was in a different program, he would have been a third or fourth scoring option all the way through his junior year.

He was not ready to be a first or second scoring option in the Big Ten until his senior year. I think that many of his "mistakes" stemmed from the over-reliance of his team on him before he was ready and able to take on the role as a scorer. This is by far less of a reflection on Gatens than it is on the state of the Iowa basketball program at that time.
 
Hawkstrat said:
Gatens was unfairly criticized, but May deserved it. He was very bad the previous year.

I think you are late to the basketball party if you think May is anything special. Sorry boys, he's a run-of-the-mill below average Big Ten player.
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May will be remembered as a good and sometimes very good defensive player. His senior year he finally figured out where he was supposed to be on offense and occasionally be an offensive asset.
 
Hawkstrat said:
Gatens was unfairly criticized, but May deserved it. He was very bad the previous year.

I think you are late to the basketball party if you think May is anything special. Sorry boys, he's a run-of-the-mill below average Big Ten player.

As to this "You think these NIT appearances are a positive," that doesn't make any sense. The NIT appearances are a positive because of where Iowa has been recently. It's like suggesting Iowa's Alamo Bowl victory in 2001 wasn't a big deal, because Iowa has been to Rose Bowls in the past.
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Neither deserved it.

Gatens was forced to play out of position because he was the best basketball player on a team that was, for the most part, devoid of talent. If he could have played his natural postion (2) he would have been better.

May was injured a good portion of the 2011-2012 season. He had to play through the pain and it affected his play.

So no .. neither of them deserved the criticism.

Just my $.02 .. ..

GO HAWKS!!!
 
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Section136 said:
So much DERP.

Gatens and May were 2 of the most vilified players on these boards until they had fantastic senior seasons and then they turned into everybody's favorite player.

Much the same treatment Oglesby gets around here.
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Ummm...

5.2 pts, 3.7 rbs, 1.8 assts, 0.9 Stl, and 21.8 mpg is fantastic?
 
wundergrape said:
The thing about Oglesby is that he is on a razor-edge from being a fan favorite. If he hits 40% of his threes, his scoring average goes up to 9 ppg (based on last year's scoring average) and he's everyone's Will Sheehey. This could easily happen by the end of his career.

Betting against sophomore Oglesby is the ultimate sucker's bet. The tools are there; when he starts to put them together he'll get the keys to University Heights.
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Not even close to a razors edge with Oglewinkel. The kid isn't a gamer. He can hit 3s when he is standing alone in the corner against the NWs of the world when we are up 15 but he couldn't hit the painted square if the game was on the line.

He had two breakout games in 2011 (@IU and @MSU). In both of those games Iowa was getting clobbered the entire game. ie no pressure. In 2012 he had what some would consider above avg. games against Garnder-Webb, Wich St., TAMU CC, and NW. That's it. We lost to Wich St, beat GW with his help and the others were irrelevant games all the way to the buzzer. Not a gamer.

Just for the record, I think the kid is better defensively than some will give him credit for and has average D1 ball handling skills. A shooter needs to have the mental edge on his opponent. Slumps are going to happen but year-long slumps are all upstairs.
 
hawkeye12345 said:
Ummm...

5.2 pts, 3.7 rbs, 1.8 assts, 0.9 Stl, and 21.8 mpg is fantastic?
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Im assuming those are May's stats from this past season.

There are some things players bring to the team that cant be measured by statistics. May brought that type of stuff all year long.

IMO, he had a fantastic senior season considering where he was at last year.
 
hawkeye12345 said:
Not even close to a razors edge with Oglewinkel. The kid isn't a gamer. He can hit 3s when he is standing alone in the corner against the NWs of the world when we are up 15 but he couldn't hit the painted square if the game was on the line.

He had two breakout games in 2011 (@IU and @MSU). In both of those games Iowa was getting clobbered the entire game. ie no pressure. In 2012 he had what some would consider above avg. games against Garnder-Webb, Wich St., TAMU CC, and NW. That's it. We lost to Wich St, beat GW with his help and the others were irrelevant games all the way to the buzzer. Not a gamer.

Just for the record, I think the kid is better defensively than some will give him credit for and has average D1 ball handling skills. A shooter needs to have the mental edge on his opponent. Slumps are going to happen but year-long slumps are all upstairs.
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You didn't get it. I wasn't talking about how great he is. I was talking about how people think he's a bum now, but even he puts up even average numbers, he'll be a fan favorite. People love a three point shooter. People love a hometownish kid. Looking like Opie doesn't hurt.

If he has even marginal success people are going to fall all over themselves with praise. Just like...wait for it, Gatens and May. Not saying he'll do it, just saying he's got the "fan favorite" thing written all over him.

For the record, I do think he has a better chance of being good than you mentioned...but that wasn't my original point.
 
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hawkeye12345 said:
Not even close to a razors edge with Oglewinkel. The kid isn't a gamer. He can hit 3s when he is standing alone in the corner against the NWs of the world when we are up 15 but he couldn't hit the painted square if the game was on the line.

He had two breakout games in 2011 (@IU and @MSU). In both of those games Iowa was getting clobbered the entire game. ie no pressure. In 2012 he had what some would consider above avg. games against Garnder-Webb, Wich St., TAMU CC, and NW. That's it. We lost to Wich St, beat GW with his help and the others were irrelevant games all the way to the buzzer. Not a gamer.

Just for the record, I think the kid is better defensively than some will give him credit for and has average D1 ball handling skills. A shooter needs to have the mental edge on his opponent. Slumps are going to happen but year-long slumps are all upstairs.
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This is such a stupid post. I'm not a big fan of Josh, not because I hate the kid or anything, but because he isn't a good enough shooter to add a lot of value to the team. Obviously, if he shoots closer to 40% than 30%, that changes. He's an at least average defender (good team defender, but not great one-on-one), better than average passer, and an adequate ball handler.

That being said, the notion of someone being a 'gamer' is stupid. Look at his game log, he was consistently bad from three. No trend emerges.

Josh Oglesby Stats, News, Videos, Highlights, Pictures, Bio - Iowa Hawkeyes - ESPN
 
Hawkstrat said:
This is such a stupid post. I'm not a big fan of Josh, not because I hate the kid or anything, but because he isn't a good enough shooter to add a lot of value to the team. Obviously, if he shoots closer to 40% than 30%, that changes. He's an at least average defender (good team defender, but not great one-on-one), better than average passer, and an adequate ball handler.

That being said, the notion of someone being a 'gamer' is stupid. Look at his game log, he was consistently bad from three. No trend emerges.

Josh Oglesby Stats, News, Videos, Highlights, Pictures, Bio - Iowa Hawkeyes - ESPN
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Good post but it is my duty as the most respected poster on this website to warn you that 12345 may post your peronsal info including but not limited to your name and employer and he may also threaten legal action if you continually pwn him.
 
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