Wow. Fran must be feeling some heat for missing out on DJ

[lightning1]

That’s such an illogical statement. So if tomorrow Fran were to sign Keion Brooks and Trayce Jackson-Davis would you keep bitching because Fran hasn’t won a B1G Title or gone to the final four? We are in the off-season right now and we are talking about improving our team. We can’t go back on the past, we sucked this year and we didn’t land D.J. Carton, nothing we can do about that now.

I agree we need to improve our PG play, but would you also agree that we can’t improve our PG play if we don’t sign a PG? So if Fran takes a flier on a “waterbug” type PG I don’t think it’s a bad thing, maybe they’ll become the next Nate Mason:
https://247sports.com/Player/Nate-Mason-20274//high-school-60948

Again if it doesn’t work out we still are pursuing Jalen Suggs (pipe dream) and Tyler Beard in the 2020 class.

It's only illogical in how you perceive it. If Fran were to sign those players tomorrow, I would stop bitching about his poor recruiting. I'd still have to wait and see if it improved his win/loss results.
Feel free to talk about improving our team. 2 wins would technically "improve our team". 2 win improvement is not near good enough for me. That's the point I'm making. Signing any old "PG" isn't going to improve our team. It needs to be a legit BIG caliber PG, or it's more of the same mediocrity.

 

[lightning1]

I don't think they're scrubs because the two I mentioned previously are rated by 247 as top 240 guys, because I read Mathew Bain's piece on them, because their videos convinced me enough that they're at least not scrubs, and because my starting point for what I considered a "scrub" was Jon Lickliter and even you have to agree that they're better than he was.

How do you know Fran ran the "oh shit, I missed another top PG" calculation and is scrambling to find warm bodies? You're able to read his mind?

Top 240 guys???? Link to their composite rankings, please?

 

[lightning1]

So you've been miserable your whole life or close to it concerning Iowa basketball?

Only when I read your posts.

 

[lightning1]

The same irony / hypocrisy you are pointing out about recruiting which is a good point also applies to wanting a new coach. In the last 30 years over 4 coaches there have been a few bright spots but not much to celebrate about consistently. That speaks to a systemic university issue not a coaching issue. All you are asking for is to bring in a new coach to reset your good will meter for a few seasons only to end up in the same spot later. It’s a rinse and repeat scenario unless you get lucky. What are the true odds of that?

Address this instead:

1. Internal University Support for Athletics must increase and be a priority. Strong Athletics strengthen Academic and University outcomes not the other way around.

2. Build newer smaller basketball only arena to pump new energy into the program and show commitment

3. Be willing to color in the margins some and be resoundingly supportive not negative as a fan base when any controversy ensues

At Iowa if we don’t work harder and smarter along with taking calculated risks you can change out coaches forever and it’s not going to net to much long term.

If you aren't willing to do what it takes as a University, to go out and get the right coach, changing coaches to "reset the goodwill meter" is about the only thing you can do to keep asses in the seats.
1). Agreed.
2). Agreed. But this is precisely what you were discussing as a "reset the goodwill meter" type of change. Especially if you still fail to address the culture.
3). Blaming the fans is a weak ass argument. It's laughable.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

If you aren't willing to do what it takes as a University, to go out and get the right coach, changing coaches to "reset the goodwill meter" is about the only thing you can do to keep asses in the seats.
1). Agreed.
2). Agreed. But this is precisely what you were discussing as a "reset the goodwill meter" type of change. Especially if you still fail to address the culture.
3). Blaming the fans is a weak ass argument. It's laughable.

2) You need clarification. We need a new smaller arena for basketball only close to students. It shows commitment, provides something to see for fans and most importantly to build a true home court advantage and engage students. That has nothing to do with a fan’s good will meter. It’s strategic investment. If we are not committed to this then we will never get to where we want to go. Currently there is no commitment just ‘caretaking’ with rinse and repeat strategy.

3). Our fans do need to take blame. We say we want to win and want to fire a coach at a drop of the hat but as soon as a successful coach hits some turbulence in the pursuit of winning people freak out and do not support the coach. Plenty of examples showing this. See the most recent recent football public intox and operating a moped while intoxicated reactions by fans and media. Meanwhile MSU keeps on MSU’ing through anything thumbing their nose at ‘public outcry’. They have established winning is number 1. Wisconsin is about winning and everything is in support of that no matter what. Iowa fans are dumb and over-react. They are puppets controlled by false narratives of the opposition.

 

[lightning1]

2) You need clarification. We need a new smaller arena for basketball only close to students. It shows commitment, provides something to see for fans and most importantly to build a true home court advantage and engage students. That has nothing to do with a fan’s good will meter. It’s strategic investment. If we are not committed to this then we will never get to where we want to go. Currently there is no commitment just ‘caretakimg’ with rinse and repeat strategy.

3). Our fans do need to take blame. We say we want to win and want to fire a coach at a drop of the hat but as soon as a successful coach hits some turbulence in the pursuit of winning people freak out and do not support the coach. Plenty of examples showing this. See the most recent recent football public intox and operating a moped while intoxicated reactions by fans and media. Meanwhile MSU keeps on MSU’ing through anything thumbing their nose at ‘public outcry’. They have established winning is number 1. Wisconsin is about winning and everything is in support of that no matter what. Iowa fans are dumb and over-react. They are puppets controlled by false narratives of the opposition.

You need clarification. Students want to be involved. It doesn't matter if you build an arena right next to campus housing...if you insist on giving them the worst seats in the house, they won't show up. They aren't stupid. They see other programs giving their students court side, floor seating. If you want "strategic investment", give the students the right seats and the rest will take care of itself.
No. Our fans don't need to take blame. Fran McCaffery has done NOTHING of consequence as the head coach at Iowa. NOTHING! Not sucking as bad as Lickliter....isn't anything to brag about. His team defense is garbage. His recruiting is sub par and so is his conference record. Attending Iowa football and Basketball games is not cheap. Fans absolutely reserve the right to whatever expectations they attach to their disposable income. "The pursuit of winning" describes every college coach, including Todd Lickliter. I suppose every fan base should embrace every coach, due to the fact they are in "the pursuit of winning". Spare us your straw man arguments. They only reflect poorly on you. Fran McCaffery's win/loss record reflects poorly on him. That's a Fran problem. Not a fan problem.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

You need clarification. Students want to be involved. It doesn't matter if you build an arena right next to campus housing...if you insist on giving them the worst seats in the house, they won't show up. They aren't stupid. They see other programs giving their students court side, floor seating. If you want "strategic investment", give the students the right seats and the rest will take care of itself.
No. Our fans don't need to take blame. Fran McCaffery has done NOTHING of consequence as the head coach at Iowa. NOTHING! Not sucking as bad as Lickliter....isn't anything to brag about. His team defense is garbage. His recruiting is sub par and so is his conference record. Attending Iowa football and Basketball games is not cheap. Fans absolutely reserve the right to whatever expectations they attach to their disposable income. "The pursuit of winning" describes every college coach, including Todd Lickliter. I suppose every fan base should embrace every coach, due to the fact they are in "the pursuit of winning". Spare us your straw man arguments. They only reflect poorly on you. Fran McCaffery's win/loss record reflects poorly on him. That's a Fran problem. Not a fan problem.

And we will see who is right after the next rinse and repeat hire. I’m betting on me but you’ll be no where to be found when it comes time for me to collect.

 

[tweeterhawk]

I thought Fran didn't feel heat because Gutless Gary?

Gutless Gary isn’t going to fire Fran because, well, his kid had cancer.

 

[lightning1]

And we will see who is right after the next rinse and repeat hire. I’m betting on me but you’ll be no where to be found when it comes time for me to collect.

I'm not sure what you are betting on. That the next coach will be as big a failure as Fran, if we don't build a new arena and get better fans? Is that about right?

 

[earlkoppelman]

Heat comes from different places. Feeling heat and fearing for his job...are 2 different things entirely.

Whatever it Takes to Win! I hope it happens.Its not as hard as last year was.Barta not problem. Though replacing him would be not too dificult. They say he is good fundraiser.His BOSSES like him. Go Hawks....

 

[lightning1]

Whatever it Takes to Win! I hope it happens.Its not as hard as last year was.Barta not problem. Though replacing him would be not too dificult. They say he is good fundraiser.His BOSSES like him. Go Hawks....

Barta is problem. Him have no spine for big boy decisions. Give him phone to pan handle money. Leave big boy decisions to real men.Go Hawks.

 

[HuckFinn]

I wish he would have, I've been on record saying that since last year- but honestly, can't speak to the reason because I don't know. It would be easy to just call him lazy or not open to transfers, but he sees kids transfer out and probably understands that situation better then any of us. Maybe they did. Maybe there wasn't a right fit? Maybe there wasn't interests since a lot of transfers have limited eligibility in years and a HS player is a better fit for the roster right now? I don't know the answer nor will I pretend to. IMO, the only thing I will speak to about it is - GOOD, I am glad he's offering PG's for 19.

There you go again, Making Good Sense.

 

[earlkoppelman]

Barta is problem. Him have no spine for big boy decisions. Give him phone to pan handle money. Leave big boy decisions to real men.Go Hawks.

Barta's Bosses the problem.My opinion.AX him and his boss! Sounds like a GOOD plan.I vote YES.Go Hawks

 

[BigD]

Both coaches would have been long gone at any school that takes winning seriously. The B1G channel mega huge payout to each conference team has destroyed the competitive nature of most schools with the exception of the very few where winning matters; Ohio State, Michigan, and new comers Penn State and Wisconsin. The sports nerds administration reside in Iowa City. A network gives you over sixty million a year and you can’t buy a coach who can recruit and win at a high level? NERDS!!!!!

 

[PCHawk]

Both coaches would have been long gone at any school that takes winning seriously. The B1G channel mega huge payout to each conference team has destroyed the competitive nature of most schools with the exception of the very few where winning matters; Ohio State, Michigan, and new comers Penn State and Wisconsin. The sports nerds administration reside in Iowa City. A network gives you over sixty million a year and you can’t buy a coach who can recruit and win at a high level? NERDS!!!!!

Long gone? What year would you have fired Fran? The only year that makes any sense to fire him was last year and that doesn't really fall into the "long gone" category.

With Kirk, as average as he's been, he hasn't really had many years where he should have been fired. Every time he gets on the hot seat he has a monster year. It's like he has a horse shoe in his ass.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

Top 240 guys???? Link to their composite rankings, please?

Top 240 guys???? Link to their composite rankings, please?

Collins was rated at 218 by 247 and his composite was 241 I think. Toussaint was slightly lower in both. According to Mathew Bain, Greenlee was somewhere between 240-260, though I'm not sure that was his 247 rating or composite.

Is that really your best comeback on that?

But not to worry, it sounds like Greenlee is the leader in the clubhouse to accept an Iowa offer from what I read. He's trying to set up a visit. So, the lowest rated of the three may be the new pg, which I'm sure would set off alarms for all the guys like yourself who think this is just a Fran-on-the-rebound-from-DJ pg offer.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Long gone? What year would you have fired Fran? The only year that makes any sense to fire him was last year and that doesn't really fall into the "long gone" category.

With Kirk, as average as he's been, he hasn't really had many years where he should have been fired. Every time he gets on the hot seat he has a monster year. It's like he has a horse shoe in his ass.

It is well known that there was some heat Coach K's job after the 1983 season. He had just been punked by over 40 points (Sampson and Virginia) I the ACC conference tournament and his two biggest rivals had won national championships in consecutive years. Bobby Cremins also had something brewing at Georgia Tech and a strong recruiting pipeline to the New York City area. K decided that if he was going to go down it was going to be with his guys. With upperclassmen on the bench and guys like Mark Alarie, Jay Bilas, Johnny Dawkins and Tommy Amaker on the floor he started winning in 1984 and made the Dance. We obviously know the rest. I think coach K may have set the tone after that 109-66 annihilation to Virgina at a post game meal. Coaches and athletic department staff members were at the table. They raised a glass to forgetting what happened that night. K famously corrected them by saying "Here's to never forgetting tonight."

 

[lightning1]

Collins was rated at 218 by 247 and his composite was 241 I think. Toussaint was slightly lower in both. According to Mathew Bain, Greenlee was somewhere between 240-260, though I'm not sure that was his 247 rating or composite.

Is that really your best comeback on that?

But not to worry, it sounds like Greenlee is the leader in the clubhouse to accept an Iowa offer from what I read. He's trying to set up a visit. So, the lowest rated of the three may be the new pg, which I'm sure would set off alarms for all the guys like yourself who think this is just a Fran-on-the-rebound-from-DJ pg offer.

"According to Mathew Bain"??? I can't find a rating on Greenlee, anywhere. Since I have access to the same information that you or Mathew Bain has...I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you or Bain are full of it. I've seen Greenlee's highlight video (what little there is of it) It's not impressive. I'll wait to form a firm opinion until I see him play in person.
"My best come back"? They are fall back to the Fall back recruits.
It doesn't matter how many lower tier PGs Fran signs. He will never win a BIG title or make a deep run in the NCAA tournament. Not until he actually starts recruiting with BIG titles in mind. This kind of recruiting is what has gotten Fran a losing record in the BIG conference.
I'm sure that doesn't matter to guys like you and Mathew Bain, who either don't understand what it takes to win or don't care. If Fran gets lucky, he might reach his cieling again in 2020 or 2021. A second round blow out loss in the NCAA tournament. That aught to be good for a yeehawww and a contract extension.

 

[lightning1]

Long gone? What year would you have fired Fran? The only year that makes any sense to fire him was last year and that doesn't really fall into the "long gone" category.

With Kirk, as average as he's been, he hasn't really had many years where he should have been fired. Every time he gets on the hot seat he has a monster year. It's like he has a horse shoe in his ass.

I would have fired Fran after the 2015-16 season. He choked away the end of the season, a first round BIG tournament exit to Illinois and a 2nd round blow out loss in the NCAA tournament. That was enough for me. He's done nothing but get worse since then. The alarm bells were ringing in your ears. You chose not to hear them. You tend to focus on the "he had us ranked in the top 10 at one point" type of hype. That's a nice consolation prize to what has been a fairly abysmal tenure.

 

[BigD]

Long gone? What year would you have fired Fran? The only year that makes any sense to fire him was last year and that doesn't really fall into the "long gone" category.

With Kirk, as average as he's been, he hasn't really had many years where he should have been fired. Every time he gets on the hot seat he has a monster year. It's like he has a horse shoe in his ass.

LMAO at the horse shoe comment.

Of course I wasn’t talking about Iowa as their expectation are lower than some schools. Assuming the same results, Michigan (gone), Ohio State (gone), Nebraska (gone), Notre Dame (gone). These schools have gone through several coaches in an attempt to maintain or attempt to re-achieve previous levels of success. Even so what they (they meaning their fans, their administration, their coaches, their players) find acceptable down years for rebuilding we at Iowa would considered above average years and were happy to have them.

As far as Fran goes you believe having two years where the team totally collapsed at the end of the season (and that’s not even counting last years melt down) losing in the first round of the B1G tournaments over and over again, not making it to the tournament on a regular basis and the few times you get their you lose in the first or second round, not being able to recruit a top notch point guard in over eight years, is not grounds for concern up until last season???