World Cup

[MelroseHawkins]

I’ve done the youth thing long enough that I’m totally disenchanted with it. Youth baseball sucks ass today IMO.

It’s so specialized, and like you said so competitive, that if you don’t get your get your kids private lessons and spend thousands on tournaments and travel ball they’ll never have a chance of even making a team. It’s become a job instead of a sport for these kids, and it’s really turned off tons of kids who want to have fun playing a sport. Parents have turned it into a competition to see who’s kid is better and how much money they have. And it’s way more for parents than the kids if you really ask them.

When I played ball as a little kid it was a glove and tennis shoes and I frickin loved it. Never had cleats or batting gloves until junior high and I never actually had my own bat until college. We had fun and still learned the game and got good at it. Now it’s a money machine and in a lot of cases (not all) a way for parents to make up for their own inadequacies.

Just my opinion.

When the time comes that I’m done coaching high school ball, I’ll never do it again. I don’t regret it…I’ll always be a fan and always watch on tv and in person, but it’s going to be unjaded again and never tied up in the bs.

You absolutely nailed it. It is what makes youth sports so sickening. Hell, I think most kids played in jeans in our city rec league when I was younger. By Little League, we were the only town around that had a legit baseball uniform, pants and stirrups. We'd get off the bus and we already beat the opposing team because we all had uni's and looked like a unified team. We did have a great coach/manager, though. He taught us well and paid attention to all the details. We were undefeated but didn't play nearly the number of games they play now.

You are correct about parent's living vicariously thru their children. We had one mother (baseball and basketball) who you could tell was un-athletic and prob never played a sport in her life but got on her kid and talked about him like she had played in the past. I'm pretty sure she learned everything about the games just because he was playing the sports. She would flat out state to ya that he was the best on the team. Ok.

I don't miss youth sports.

 

[HawkGold]

You absolutely nailed it. It is what makes youth sports so sickening. Hell, I think most kids played in jeans in our city rec league when I was younger. By Little League, we were the only town around that had a legit baseball uniform, pants and stirrups. We'd get off the bus and we already beat the opposing team because we all had uni's and looked like a unified team. We did have a great coach/manager, though. He taught us well and paid attention to all the details. We were undefeated but didn't play nearly the number of games they play now.

You are correct about parent's living vicariously thru their children. We had one mother (baseball and basketball) who you could tell was un-athletic and prob never played a sport in her life but got on her kid and talked about him like she had played in the past. I'm pretty sure she learned everything about the games just because he was playing the sports. She would flat out state to ya that he was the best on the team. Ok.

I don't miss youth sports.

Have you been around 4H? Can be as bad or worse.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Have you been around 4H? Can be as bad or worse.

No I have not. Explain. You perked my interest.

 

[HawkGold]

No I have not. Explain. You perked my interest.

Great program. Leadership training. Skills contests including public speaking. They even have woodworking and crafts. Kids come in with projects looking like they made something for mom's kitchen that might make it to extreme makeover. Of course the kids didn't make it. Parents get into stealing projects and sabotage.

Homepage | Iowa State University Extension and Outreach 4-H Youth Development

www.extension.iastate.edu

 

[kicker22]

So honest question to bring it back to soccer. Is/can the argument really be that if it were higher scoring it'd be more "watchable"? I tend to be in the camp that thinks that's absolutely crap and tbh it comes down your either interested in it or your not and has nothing to do with the score.

With regards to the comparison about football being "more high scoring" does it have anything to do with the actual score when scoring in football is already skewed? 6 points for a touchdown, 3 pts. field goal, etc.. I just don't buy the argument based on the simple fact that I'd bet football and soccer scores would be similar if they were scored the same...But because a TD is worth 6x (7x more with the PAT) then a goal in soccer we automatically assume that it's a "higher scoring game" and soccer's lacking because the scores are lower.

I just see it as a terrible excuse. I totally believe that soccer isn't a sport for everyone and am totally fine with it not being the most popular sport in the country and am totally fine with people not being able to watch it, but please put the "it's too low scoring" argument to rest. You like it or you don't. If runs in baseball were worth 7 pts. a piece and goals in soccer were 10 pts a piece it wouldn't change anyone's actual opinions of the sport.

And for those wanting ways to improve the scoring...Look into indoor soccer or simply look up 7v7 soccer which is played by a lot of rec leagues in addition/in place of regular 11v11. Played on a smaller field with slightly smaller goals (or often regulation) and no offsides. Games is amazingly quicker paced and much more higher scoring, similar to 8 man football. But I don't think it has anything to do with the actual score line but rather it's simply not for everyone and it's an excuse (not that one is needed) for why someone isn't interested.

 

[Fryowa]

So honest question to bring it back to soccer. Is/can the argument really that if it were higher scoring it'd be more "watchable"? I tend to be in the camp that thinks that's absolutely crap and tbh it comes down your either interested in it or your not and has nothing to do with the score.

With regards to the comparison about football being "more high scoring" does it have anything to do with the actual score when scoring in football is already skewed? 6 points for a touchdown, 3 pts. field goal, etc.. I just don't buy the argument based on the simple fact that I'd bet football and soccer scores would be similar if they were scored the same...But because a TD is worth 6x (7x more with the PAT) then a goal in soccer we automatically assume that it's a "higher scoring game" and soccer's lacking because the scores are lower.

I just see it as a terrible excuse. I totally believe that soccer isn't a sport for everyone and am totally fine with it not being the most popular sport in the country and am totally fine with people not being able to watch it, but please put the "it's too low scoring" argument to rest. You like it or you don't. If runs in baseball were worth 7 pts. a piece and goals in soccer were 10 pts a piece it wouldn't change anyone's actual opinions of the sport.

And for those wanting ways to improve the scoring...Look into indoor soccer or simply look up 7v7 soccer which is played by a lot of rec leagues in addition/in place of regular 11v11. Played on a smaller field with slightly smaller goals (or often regulation) and no offsides. Games is amazingly quicker paced and much more higher scoring, similar to 8 man football. But I don't think it has anything to do with the actual score line but rather it's simply not for everyone and it's an excuse (not that one is needed) for why someone isn't interested.

Soccer's a sport that lacks variety to anyone who's not deeply knowledgeable. I know it isn't, but when you watch soccer it looks like 20 guys running around kicking a ball back and forth, and the back and forth is what throws people off. Just when the action gets close to the goal, boom...someone boots it 80 yds to the other end of the field and the whole mess starts over again. I get that you know the game and the nuances, but to most people in the US it just looks like constant running, chasing, and keep away with almost no scoring, which makes it a bore. I by no means think I'm athletic enough nor skilled enough to play soccer, but I can watch it for maybe 2-3 minutes before I start to doze off. If there was some variety or more scoring action, more people would watch.

Football, basketball, even baseball have more variety in what's going on. The complexity of those sports that's apparent to anyone watching, not just those who know the sport is what makes them tolerable. Even baseball which gets a bad rap for being boring has very distinct offense and defensive actions, then there's pitching which is a whole different world, then batting, you have a team and individual aspect to the game, etc.

Because of that, soccer would need something more exciting to jazz it up for casual people to actually watch it.

 

[kicker22]

Soccer's a sport that lacks variety to anyone who's not deeply knowledgeable. I know it isn't, but when you watch soccer it looks like 20 guys running around kicking a ball back and forth, and the back and forth is what throws people off. Just when the action gets close to the goal, boom...someone boots it 80 yds to the other end of the field and the whole mess starts over again. I get that you know the game and the nuances, but to most people in the US it just looks like constant running, chasing, and keep away with almost no scoring, which makes it a bore. I by no means think I'm athletic enough nor skilled enough to play soccer, but I can watch it for maybe 2-3 minutes before I start to doze off. If there was some variety or more scoring action, more people would watch.

Football, basketball, even baseball have more variety in what's going on. The complexity of those sports that's apparent to anyone watching, not just those who know the sport is what makes them tolerable. Even baseball which gets a bad rap for being boring has very distinct offense and defensive actions, then there's pitching which is a whole different world, then batting, you have a team and individual aspect to the game, etc.

Because of that, soccer would need something more exciting to jazz it up for casual people to actually watch it.

Well put and lack I said I'm by no means one of those that will try to defend it or argue those that don't like it. As I said in the previous post both indoor and 7v7 are much faster paced but lesser known alternatives to traditional soccer where the score is higher and it much faster paced, because as you pointed out, on a smaller field you don't get that feeling that one team is right on top of the goal and then suddenly they've dropped it back 80 yards to the complete opposite end of the field.

I think though you nailed it and it's more of that variety being desired as opposed to the low scoring.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

So honest question to bring it back to soccer. Is/can the argument really be that if it were higher scoring it'd be more "watchable"? I tend to be in the camp that thinks that's absolutely crap and tbh it comes down your either interested in it or your not and has nothing to do with the score.

With regards to the comparison about football being "more high scoring" does it have anything to do with the actual score when scoring in football is already skewed? 6 points for a touchdown, 3 pts. field goal, etc.. I just don't buy the argument based on the simple fact that I'd bet football and soccer scores would be similar if they were scored the same...But because a TD is worth 6x (7x more with the PAT) then a goal in soccer we automatically assume that it's a "higher scoring game" and soccer's lacking because the scores are lower.

I just see it as a terrible excuse. I totally believe that soccer isn't a sport for everyone and am totally fine with it not being the most popular sport in the country and am totally fine with people not being able to watch it, but please put the "it's too low scoring" argument to rest. You like it or you don't. If runs in baseball were worth 7 pts. a piece and goals in soccer were 10 pts a piece it wouldn't change anyone's actual opinions of the sport.

And for those wanting ways to improve the scoring...Look into indoor soccer or simply look up 7v7 soccer which is played by a lot of rec leagues in addition/in place of regular 11v11. Played on a smaller field with slightly smaller goals (or often regulation) and no offsides. Games is amazingly quicker paced and much more higher scoring, similar to 8 man football. But I don't think it has anything to do with the actual score line but rather it's simply not for everyone and it's an excuse (not that one is needed) for why someone isn't interested.

For being a novice follower, I think the key is more scoring chances. I wouldn't say it is all on more scoring but legit scoring chances. A team only having 2-3 legit shots on goal doesn't really cut it for most people. I can live with a 2-1 score, but I would really like 7-8 shots on goal per team a game. That would excite me.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Well put and lack I said I'm by no means one of those that will try to defend it or argue those that don't like it. As I said in the previous post both indoor and 7v7 are much faster paced but lesser known alternatives to traditional soccer where the score is higher and it much faster paced, because as you pointed out, on a smaller field you don't get that feeling that one team is right on top of the goal and then suddenly they've dropped it back 80 yards to the complete opposite end of the field.

I think though you nailed it and it's more of that variety being desired as opposed to the low scoring.

And I want to like it. Like when the World Cup is on I always say I'm gunna watch and get into it. I hate that I don't appreciate it like I should. This is the same for hockey. I used to watch hockey when ESPN had it on in the 80's and I was younger.

I do want to like it though.

 

[HawkGold]

And I want to like it. Like when the World Cup is on I always say I'm gunna watch and get into it. I hate that I don't appreciate it like I should. This is the same for hockey. I used to watch hockey when ESPN had it on in the 80's and I was younger.

I do want to like it though.

Go to several HS matches with good teams next fall and pay attention to what it going on away from the ball.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Go to several HS matches with good teams next fall and pay attention to what it going on away from the ball.

Nah. Not gunna happen. I don't find myself going to watch some kids I don't know. Plus I have two in football. But, I did have a niece who played for a good HS program several years ago and I did go to one of her matches and enjoyed it. She played on a Div III team in college a couple years before wrapping it up due to injury and coaching issues.

 

[HawkGold]

Nah. Not gunna happen. I don't find myself going to watch some kids I don't know. Plus I have two in football. But, I did have a niece who played for a good HS program several years ago and I did go to one of her matches and enjoyed it. She played on a Div III team in college a couple years before wrapping it up due to injury and coaching issues.

Girls soccer isn't the same. You've seen where mid teen boys teams (high level) readily beat the national women's teams. On good teams there are one or two girls (even Big Ten) that can see the field and anticipate at higher speed. Not against women, just not a good barometer. My sister was really good in BB. The two of us would challenge guy to 2 on 2. They couldn't match her first step.

In college, I coached girls, intermural teams. The Iowa 6 on 6 player game was made more for the strong points of females. A much better and fast-paced game to watch. The school was out of state with all Iowa girls. We played some teams with players from the other state championships. The first time we saw a press it was bad news, but never had an issue again. The Iowa girls with very little dribbling and used to pass within a couple of seconds were no match for the traditional game. I admit that some of my players came from Bettendorf and were also from another school.... older sisters and cousins of Jess Settles and his teammates.

Back to soccer... a friendly...before you join a world cup thread and say it's boring and you'll never like it, might be better to stay out of the conversation unless you really care to learn. It's obvious a lot of people in the US don't like soccer. No need to make your case. Some of the issue though is the camera angles and distance...coupled with the lack 6 replays of every play to analyze and of course kill "boring with a smile" downtime.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Girls soccer isn't the same. You've seen where mid teen boys teams (high level) readily beat the national women's teams. On good teams there are one or two girls (even Big Ten) that can see the field and anticipate at higher speed. Not against women, just not a good barometer. My sister was really good in BB. The two of us would challenge guy to 2 on 2. They couldn't match her first step.

In college, I coached girls, intermural teams. The Iowa 6 on 6 player game was made more for the strong points of females. A much better and fast-paced game to watch. The school was out of state with all Iowa girls. We played some teams with players from the other state championships. The first time we saw a press it was bad news, but never had an issue again. The Iowa girls with very little dribbling and used to pass within a couple of seconds were no match for the traditional game. I admit that some of my players came from Bettendorf and were also from another school.... older sisters and cousins of Jess Settles and his teammates.

Back to soccer... a friendly...before you join a world cup thread and say it's boring and you'll never like it, might be better to stay out of the conversation unless you really care to learn. It's obvious a lot of people in the US don't like soccer. No need to make your case. Some of the issue though is the camera angles and distance...coupled with the lack 6 replays of every play to analyze and of course kill "boring with a smile" downtime.

Dude, you are not the HawkeyeNation or internet police. Quit strutting around this place like you own it.

I NEVER said I didn't like it. Go back and review my posts and quit sayin shit I didn't say. I sincerely pointed out what they could do to make soccer more interesting to view, mainly on TV. I stated why it is boring to watch and stated what they could do to improve it. What you come back with is rude and asinine.

I actually admitted I want to like it. Don't get your panties all wound up because some say it's brutal to watch. If it was all that and a bag of Doritos, most Americans would be watching it and going to live matches. Why is it so hard for some soccer enthusiasts to admit? I've never seen such a "little brother" syndrome than soccer enthusiasts. They can't stand it, and it's comical.

And I will say any damn thing I want to in a thread. What I stated was pertinent to both the World Cup and to soccer. I actually watched the match before posting in this thread. So, go pound sand!

 

[HawkGold]

Dude, you are not the HawkeyeNation or internet police. Quit strutting around this place like you own it.

I NEVER said I didn't like it. Go back and review my posts and quit sayin shit I didn't say. I sincerely pointed out what they could do to make soccer more interesting to view, mainly on TV. I stated why it is boring to watch and stated what they could do to improve it. What you come back with is rude and asinine.

I actually admitted I want to like it. Don't get your panties all wound up because some say it's brutal to watch. If it was all that and a bag of Doritos, most Americans would be watching it and going to live matches. Why is it so hard for some soccer enthusiasts to admit? I've never seen such a "little brother" syndrome than soccer enthusiasts. They can't stand it, and it's comical.

And I will say any damn thing I want to in a thread. What I stated was pertinent to both the World Cup and to soccer. I actually watched the match before posting in this thread. So, go pound sand!

You just made my day... That was hilarious. And.... I can say what I want as well... Well Fry does delete things.

Rather than little brother, it seems more like some football enthusiasts (yes I love football) are threatened by soccer. In more educated communities in the Midwest and other areas, soccer numbers are better than football. Urbana IL had not been able to field a varsity football team for 3 years due to lack of numbers. They are a power in soccer. A local smaller school had to drop but has a full soccer team. An 8 man school had to drop football. Still another dropped from 11 man to 8 man...and yes they have a full soccer team.

Football is under threat from soccer.
When I was young.... back in the old times, HS teams didn't have fat players. Now, it is a problem and lack of mobility is a problem.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

You just made my day... That was hilarious. And.... I can say what I want as well... Well Fry does delete things.

Rather than little brother, it seems more like some football enthusiasts (yes I love football) are threatened by soccer. In more educated communities in the Midwest and other areas, soccer numbers are better than football. Urbana IL had not been able to field a varsity football team for 3 years due to lack of numbers. They are a power in soccer. A local smaller school had to drop but has a full soccer team. An 8 man school had to drop football. Still another dropped from 11 man to 8 man...and yes they have a full soccer team.

Football is under threat from soccer.
When I was young.... back in the old times, HS teams didn't have fat players. Now, it is a problem and lack of mobility is a problem.
View attachment 9642

I guarantee nobody who is a football first fan is worried about soccer. Soccer is the most widely played sport in the world. Doesn't mean it is going to take over in America. Not gunna happen.

It isn't the popularity of the sport that is shifting the kids playing in America, it's that the parents & athletes are worried about the injuries in football, CTE, etc.. In addition, another huge reason is that many athletes are choosing and concentrating on one sport instead of being multi-sport athletes. I strongly feel this is having a huge impact on numbers on teams in many sports.

This is why some schools are ceasing some football programs and many are going to 8 man. Yes, it's a legit issue and less kids are going the Americal football route. But as far as viewing in America, NFL and college football are the king.

Another reason why schools may drop if they don't have enough players is that football is astronomically much more of an expensive sport to support than sports like basketball, volleyball, or soccer. Football is an expensive sport.

Oh, if I gave a shit, I could easily cherry pick thinner American football coaches and larger soccer. Nick Saban is a shorter, smaller and thinner man. KF is in great shape for his age. Again, as I and many others on here have asked many times, what is your point?

 

[HawkGold]

I guarantee nobody who is a football first fan is worried about soccer. Soccer is the most widely played sport in the world. Doesn't mean it is going to take over in America. Not gunna happen.

It isn't the popularity of the sport that is shifting the kids playing in America, it's that the parents are worried about the injuries in football, CTE, etc..

This is why some schools are ceasing some football programs and many are going to 8 man. Yes, it's a legit issue and less kids are going the Americal football route. But as far as viewing in America, NFL and college football are the king.

Another reason why schools may drop if they don't have enough players is that football is astronomically much more of an expensive sport to support that sports like basketball or soccer. Football is an expensive sport.

That's reasonably fair, though locally some football boosters pressure schools to drop soccer or not start it, so the premise isn't entirely true.

Whether you like soccer or not doesn't concern me. Giving suggestions on getting to understand and appreciate it.

I hated art until I went to the Getty Museum. I hated ballet until I went to the National Ballet in Kyiv. Remember the Moscow Prima Ballerina who was fired for being "fat"? She was performing that day in Ukraine and wow was it incredible to watch.

Anyway, I thought you were funny....

 

[MelroseHawkins]

That's reasonably fair, though locally some football boosters pressure schools to drop soccer or not start it, so the premise isn't entirely true.

Whether you like soccer or not doesn't concern me. Giving suggestions on getting to understand and appreciate it.

I hated art until I went to the Getty Museum. I hated ballet until I went to the National Ballet in Kyiv. Remember the Moscow Prima Ballerina who was fired for being "fat"? She was performing that day in Ukraine and wow was it incredible to watch.

Anyway, I thought you were funny....

Than my work here is done.

And for the record, again, I don't hate the sport of soccer. I appreciate the athletes, the skill, the conditioning of the athletes, etc.. It just needs more shots on goal, IMO.

 

[HawkGold]

I guarantee nobody who is a football first fan is worried about soccer. Soccer is the most widely played sport in the world. Doesn't mean it is going to take over in America. Not gunna happen.

It isn't the popularity of the sport that is shifting the kids playing in America, it's that the parents & athletes are worried about the injuries in football, CTE, etc.. In addition, another huge reason is that many athletes are choosing and concentrating on one sport instead of being multi-sport athletes. I strongly feel this is having a huge impact on numbers on teams in many sports.

This is why some schools are ceasing some football programs and many are going to 8 man. Yes, it's a legit issue and less kids are going the Americal football route. But as far as viewing in America, NFL and college football are the king.

Another reason why schools may drop if they don't have enough players is that football is astronomically much more of an expensive sport to support than sports like basketball, volleyball, or soccer. Football is an expensive sport.

Oh, if I gave a shit, I could easily cherry pick thinner American football coaches and larger soccer. Nick Saban is a shorter, smaller and thinner man. KF is in great shape for his age. Again, as I and many others on here have asked many times, what is your point?

You are the only one who asks that. Yes, you could cherry-pick, but there is a correlation. However, I will ask, what was your point to come here and say you want to learn and instead of saying OK, I still don't get it... just move on, but that is not what you did. Sooooooooo..... What is your point?

 

[MelroseHawkins]

You are the only one who asks that. Yes, you could cherry-pick, but there is a correlation. However, I will ask, what was your point to come here and say you want to learn and instead of saying OK, I still don't get it... just move on, but that is not what you did. Sooooooooo..... What is your point?

Dude, you are unsufferable. I don't want to have to break out the flash cards so I will just try to do cliff notes.

The title of this thread is simply "World Cup". You commented on how exciting and young this team is. I realized they were playing on Saturday morning so wanted to tune in to watch them and see if they can advance. While watching I noted a couple things that could make watching soccer a little more interesting. I noted them in my first post after watching the team in the match. I didn't say I hated it and didn't say that I did not appreciate the athletes. Apparently you didn't like it that I found it uninteresting to watch because the lack of shots on goal. You didn't like it that I compared it to the sports that the majority of Americans view on TV. You then started the pizz match back and forth and posted the asinine posts.

The fact that you can start a soccer thread and not think you are going to get some who comment on the brutality of viewing it is hilarious. You couldn't control this, so as always, frustrates you when that happens, which is a lot.

That is pretty much it in a nutshell.

 

[HawkGold]

Dude, you are unsufferable. I don't want to have to break out the flash cards so I will just try to do cliff notes.

The title of this thread is simply "World Cup". You commented on how exciting and young this team is. I realized they were playing on Saturday morning so wanted to tune in to watch them and see if they can advance. While watching I noted a couple things that could make watching soccer a little more interesting. I noted them in my first post after watching the team in the match. I didn't say I hated it and didn't say that I did not appreciate the athletes. Apparently you didn't like it that I found it uninteresting to watch because the lack of shots on goal. You didn't like it that I compared it to the sports that the majority of Americans view on TV. You then started the pizz match back and forth and posted the asinine posts.

The fact that you can start a soccer thread and not think you are going to get some who comment on the brutality of viewing it is hilarious. You couldn't control this, so as always, frustrates you when that happens, which is a lot.

That is pretty much it in a nutshell.

OK thx. Have a nice day!