World Cup

[Robowe]

The shift was a response to really good hitters and reduced action and risk. Then pitchers got REALLY good and made it even more of an all or nothing proposition to the point that college and prep private coaches weren't teaching contact hitting and small ball. It was bad for the sport and bad for fans.

I would say the shift was the response to the all or nothing approach to hitting. Once the teams noticed that hitters were not taking a two strike approach and going the other way, the shifted the defense in response.

The shift has been around (in small doses) back to Ted Williams. Dead pull hitters like Willie Stargell and Willie McCovey faced shifts frequently back in the day (mostly with no runners on base). Like basketball, analytics of hitting made defenses react accordingly. I wanted hitters to react (as you stated) to more contact and opposite field hitting on their own.

Oh well. Maybe because I was a weak hitting/ opposite field hitter through most of college (until I got stronger) may be coloring my thoughts a bit.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

They're also going to a 15 second pitch clock with the bases empty and 20 seconds with runners on. Go over and it's a ball, and if the batter isn't set by then it's a strike. Minor leagues did it and it cut games down by 27 minutes on average. By far the biggest slowdown in games is pitcher taking forever between pitches. Guys like Kenley Jansen are gonna have to make big adjustments, he averaged 26 seconds last year and with runners on he would go 30+ between pitches.

Also limiting pitcher to 2 pickoff attempts. You can try a 3rd but if you don't get the out it's a balk. A balk is a severe enough penalty that you're never going to see a guy try it.

As a coach myself I'm in favor of all of those things. They'll bring games back to where they were 30 years ago in terms of pace. I love it.

Yea, I knew about the pitching clock and like it. Not sure about the 2 throwover's, though. That's a little f'ed up. Is it 2 to a batter or in total for the pitcher's outing?

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Yep I think it's great. It's what's led to guys being strictly power hitters. Computer stats are good enough now that it's easy to see where guys hit most often and when coaches put 4 guys almost within arms reach of each other plus one so deep that he's a 4th outfielder, it gets ridiculous. The new rule will encourage contact hitting. It's not going to completely bring back small ball but you'll see guys working for base hits instead of either hitting home runs, popping out, or striking out. The shift is against the spirit of the game IMO.

To bad we are losing the skill of hitting to the opposite side of the field or bunting in a shift.

 

[Robowe]

Yea, I knew about the pitching clock and like it. Not sure about the 2 throwover's, though. That's a little f'ed up. Is it 2 to a batter or in total for the pitcher's outing?

2 per plate appearance (batter).

 

[HawkGold]

To bad we are losing the skill of hitting to the opposite side of the field or bunting in a shift.

Alway hate to give up an out. Opposite field totally agree.

 

[Fryowa]

Yea, I knew about the pitching clock and like it. Not sure about the 2 throwover's, though. That's a little f'ed up. Is it 2 to a batter or in total for the pitcher's outing?

Each batter.

 

[Fryowa]

I would say the shift was the response to the all or nothing approach to hitting. Once the teams noticed that hitters were not taking a two strike approach and going the other way, the shifted the defense in response.

The shift has been around (in small doses) back to Ted Williams. Dead pull hitters like Willie Stargell and Willie McCovey faced shifts frequently back in the day (mostly with no runners on base). Like basketball, analytics of hitting made defenses react accordingly. I wanted hitters to react (as you stated) to more contact and opposite field hitting on their own.

Oh well. Maybe because I was a weak hitting/ opposite field hitter through most of college (until I got stronger) may be coloring my thoughts a bit.

I preach and preach and preach opposite field in high school. Keep the ball behind your runners and kill teams a few base hits at a time.

Of course that’s if you have guys who can make contact. I can barely get enough out for a full team. If my kid’s class of now sophomores was any smaller we wouldn’t have a program and that’s at a 2A school. I’ve got one senior and one junior, and a total of three pitchers, all in my kid’s class. Once those guys graduate there’s a real chance we might be out of luck. Two years ago I had to teach some seniors how to tag up. And I don’t mean the best way to tag up, I mean teach them what the whole concept was.

 

[Robowe]

I preach and preach and preach opposite field in high school. Keep the ball behind your runners and kill teams a few base hits at a time.

Of course that’s if you have guys who can make contact. I can barely get enough out for a full team. If my kid’s class of now sophomores was any smaller we wouldn’t have a program and that’s at a 2A school. I’ve got one senior and one junior, and a total of three pitchers, all in my kid’s class. Once those guys graduate there’s a real chance we might be out of luck. Two years ago I had to teach some seniors how to tag up. And I don’t mean the best way to tag up, I mean teach them what the whole concept was.

Wow. Sad. I played at a 4A school that is no longer that big (Catholic school that has vastly shrunk). My son played at large school too. Plenty of players in both cases. My son admitted he was one of few players on the team that watched baseball on TV. A lot of players didn't understand strategy and bench jockeying stuff (stealing signs, etc.).

Back to the original subject, he is also a huge soccer fan.

 

[Fryowa]

Back to the original subject, he is also a huge soccer fan.

I can’t add to the conversation. When I see soccer I can go like 4 seconds before I have to start playing solitaire on my phone or counting ceiling tiles.

 

[HawkGold]

I preach and preach and preach opposite field in high school. Keep the ball behind your runners and kill teams a few base hits at a time.

Of course that’s if you have guys who can make contact. I can barely get enough out for a full team. If my kid’s class of now sophomores was any smaller we wouldn’t have a program and that’s at a 2A school. I’ve got one senior and one junior, and a total of three pitchers, all in my kid’s class. Once those guys graduate there’s a real chance we might be out of luck. Two years ago I had to teach some seniors how to tag up. And I don’t mean the best way to tag up, I mean teach them what the whole concept was.

Pop up sliding?

 

[HawkGold]

I can’t add to the conversation. When I see soccer I can go like 4 seconds before I have to start playing solitaire on my phone or counting ceiling tiles.

Could have to do with living in a more remote area. Around here, soccer gets more players in HS than football and it's not close.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I preach and preach and preach opposite field in high school. Keep the ball behind your runners and kill teams a few base hits at a time.

Of course that’s if you have guys who can make contact. I can barely get enough out for a full team. If my kid’s class of now sophomores was any smaller we wouldn’t have a program and that’s at a 2A school. I’ve got one senior and one junior, and a total of three pitchers, all in my kid’s class. Once those guys graduate there’s a real chance we might be out of luck. Two years ago I had to teach some seniors how to tag up. And I don’t mean the best way to tag up, I mean teach them what the whole concept was.

Wow.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Pop up sliding?

One of my sons pop up slid at like 10U or 11U. Not sure he really saw it and mimicked it, but I think it just came naturally to him. When he first did it, I was like did you see that?

He was a smaller and faster player at that time in his life.

 

[Fryowa]

Wow.

No youth program in our town whatsoever. They literally throw it on parents and I know for sure that the three grades above and below our sophomores didn’t have any dads who played baseball believe it or not (or at least didn’t want to coach). One of those classes did have a mom who played softball back in the day but she didn’t have a clue how to coach. Absolutely god bless her for trying though. No one else would.

I’m not bragging because I’m not Joe Torre or anything, but it’d be the same thing for my kid’s group if I didn’t start coaching them. I really had no interest in it at the time but I wasn’t going to let him and his friends suffer through that. It’ll turn out in the end though, and it’s fun because not many parents get to coach their kid all the way from t-ball through youth rec, travel ball, and then in high school.

On the other hand I’d love for once in my life to sit in a lawn chair and watch my son play baseball stress-free and just take the whole thing in.

Not complaining though, it’s a connection we’ll always have.

 

[HawkGold]

No youth program in our town whatsoever. They literally throw it on parents and I know for sure that the three grades above and below our sophomores didn’t have any dads who played baseball believe it or not (or at least didn’t want to coach). One of those classes did have a mom who played softball back in the day but she didn’t have a clue how to coach. Absolutely god bless her for trying though. No one else would.

I’m not bragging because I’m not Joe Torre or anything, but it’d be the same thing for my kid’s group if I didn’t start coaching them. I really had no interest in it at the time but I wasn’t going to let him and his friends suffer through that. It’ll turn out in the end though, and it’s fun because not many parents get to coach their kid all the way from t-ball through youth rec, travel ball, and then in high school.

On the other hand I’d love for once in my life to sit in a lawn chair and watch my son play baseball stress-free and just take the whole thing in.

Not complaining though, it’s a connection we’ll always have.

The thing that soccer coaching has over baseball. Every dad and some moms think they know a bunch about baseball. Soccer parents are terrified of being asked to help. They mostly leave you alone.

 

[Fryowa]

The thing that soccer coaching has over baseball. Every dad and some moms think they know a bunch about baseball. Soccer parents are terrified of being asked to help. They mostly leave you alone.

When I was coaching rec I would’ve killed for anyone to help at all. I can show people simple stuff that’d be much better than nothing.

Decent coaching is just so essential. It doesn’t have to be super high level either. My dad wasn’t a coach but he loved baseball, played catch with me from the time I could hold a whiffle ball, hit me grounders, fed a tee for me…stuff like that. He taught me the rules and basic strategy, and we watched baseball on tv constantly together when I was little. Kids gain so much from just that basic stuff and hardly anyone does it anymore.

Good intentions are very admirable but unfortunately it doesn’t cut the mustard. Case in point, last year I was working on our Iron Mike and a junior high kid and his dad came out to the HS field and asked if they could take some BP. I was fricking thrilled to see it and said absolutely. Showed ‘em where the L screen was, got the ball cart out for ‘em, whole nine yards. Dad totally blew off the L screen and goes right to the mound. Trying to throw BP to his kid from 60’. Tossing rainbows and 90% were either in the dirt, or hit the kid, or over his head. They basically spent the whole time yelling at each other and getting pissed off, dad because his kid wasn’t swinging and the kid was frustrated by the whole thing. It sucked to watch.

I stopped ‘em, told dad to put the screen halfway to the mound and toss nice easy meatballs from there. Still couldn’t throw strikes so I moved him up and had him soft toss underhand and then it went great. He had no idea soft toss was a thing and I still don’t think he thought his kid was getting anything out of it. Too bad Mike Trout takes soft toss and hits off a tee every day but what the hell do I know?

Simple stuff like that. 15 minutes of showing a parent simple stuff does wonders but people don’t wanna even ask.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

No youth program in our town whatsoever. They literally throw it on parents and I know for sure that the three grades above and below our sophomores didn’t have any dads who played baseball believe it or not (or at least didn’t want to coach). One of those classes did have a mom who played softball back in the day but she didn’t have a clue how to coach. Absolutely god bless her for trying though. No one else would.

I’m not bragging because I’m not Joe Torre or anything, but it’d be the same thing for my kid’s group if I didn’t start coaching them. I really had no interest in it at the time but I wasn’t going to let him and his friends suffer through that. It’ll turn out in the end though, and it’s fun because not many parents get to coach their kid all the way from t-ball through youth rec, travel ball, and then in high school.

On the other hand I’d love for once in my life to sit in a lawn chair and watch my son play baseball stress-free and just take the whole thing in.

Not complaining though, it’s a connection we’ll always have.

That is just hard for me to imagine. It is so competitive in my area with a lot of options. My boys won state on their 14U AAA team. The quality of youth baseball is terrific compared when I played back in the day. These players are massively skilled. The pitchers all have years of private pitching lessons as well as with the team. Routine double-plays, etc..

 

[MelroseHawkins]

When I was coaching rec I would’ve killed for anyone to help at all. I can show people simple stuff that’d be much better than nothing.

Decent coaching is just so essential. It doesn’t have to be super high level either. My dad wasn’t a coach but he loved baseball, played catch with me from the time I could hold a whiffle ball, hit me grounders, fed a tee for me…stuff like that. He taught me the rules and basic strategy, and we watched baseball on tv constantly together when I was little. Kids gain so much from just that basic stuff and hardly anyone does it anymore.

Good intentions are very admirable but unfortunately it doesn’t cut the mustard. Case in point, last year I was working on our Iron Mike and a junior high kid and his dad came out to the HS field and asked if they could take some BP. I was fricking thrilled to see it and said absolutely. Showed ‘em where the L screen was, got the ball cart out for ‘em, whole nine yards. Dad totally blew off the L screen and goes right to the mound. Trying to throw BP to his kid from 60’. Tossing rainbows and 90% were either in the dirt, or hit the kid, or over his head. They basically spent the whole time yelling at each other and getting pissed off, dad because his kid wasn’t swinging and the kid was frustrated by the whole thing. It sucked to watch.

I stopped ‘em, told dad to put the screen halfway to the mound and toss nice easy meatballs from there. Still couldn’t throw strikes so I moved him up and had him soft toss underhand and then it went great. He had no idea soft toss was a thing and I still don’t think he thought his kid was getting anything out of it. Too bad Mike Trout takes soft toss and hits off a tee every day but what the hell do I know?

Simple stuff like that. 15 minutes of showing a parent simple stuff does wonders but people don’t wanna even ask.

We did so much soft toss over the years. In our 1/4 acre town lot we had to use training balls (Sklz) and sand balls in the back yard. I remember as they grew older the goal was to eventually get them over the fence. The goals for the sand balls was to just hit the fence. As they got stronger and older, they were able to clear the fence with the sand balls. That was a nice goal to meet.

 

[Fryowa]

That is just hard for me to imagine. It is so competitive in my area with a lot of options. My boys won state on their 14U AAA team. The quality of youth baseball is terrific compared when I played back in the day. These players are massively skilled. The pitchers all have years of private pitching lessons as well as with the team. Routine double-plays, etc..

I’ve done the youth thing long enough that I’m totally disenchanted with it. Youth baseball sucks ass today IMO.

It’s so specialized, and like you said so competitive, that if you don’t get your get your kids private lessons and spend thousands on tournaments and travel ball they’ll never have a chance of even making a team. It’s become a job instead of a sport for these kids, and it’s really turned off tons of kids who want to have fun playing a sport. Parents have turned it into a competition to see who’s kid is better and how much money they have. And it’s way more for parents than the kids if you really ask them.

When I played ball as a little kid it was a glove and tennis shoes and I frickin loved it. Never had cleats or batting gloves until junior high and I never actually had my own bat until college. We had fun and still learned the game and got good at it. Now it’s a money machine and in a lot of cases (not all) a way for parents to make up for their own inadequacies.

Just my opinion.

When the time comes that I’m done coaching high school ball, I’ll never do it again. I don’t regret it…I’ll always be a fan and always watch on tv and in person, but it’s going to be unjaded again and never tied up in the bs.

 

[Fryowa]

We did so much soft toss over the years. In our 1/4 acre town lot we had to use training balls (Sklz) and sand balls in the back yard. I remember as they grew older the goal was to eventually get them over the fence. The goals for the sand balls was to just hit the fence. As they got stronger and older, they were able to clear the fence with the sand balls. That was a nice goal to meet.

Simpler the better.