I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm interested in this move for what it could mean to college football. If the ACC falls apart, the B1G could expand, and that affects Iowa.
With FSU and Clemson Joining the Big 12...
- Thread starter SheagleHawk
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I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm interested in this move for what it could mean to college football. If the ACC falls apart, the B1G could expand, and that affects Iowa.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
The bottom line (and amusing constant) underlying this thread is... that ISU continues to define themselves...through other programs.
And for you Double Wide...nobody here is "worried" about anything. More amused by that one clear and obvious constant. ISU cannot define themselves...they are always reliant on those around them for validation. And the clone masturbation over possible additions to the "big 12"...as if it somehow makes them bigger.. is a perfect example.
Whether it's IOWA's inherent strength.. the constant instability and realignment of the conference the clones belong to...or whatever. ISU and their future is always...defined by someone or someones...else. And that has never been more obvious.
And for you Double Wide...nobody here is "worried" about anything. More amused by that one clear and obvious constant. ISU cannot define themselves...they are always reliant on those around them for validation. And the clone masturbation over possible additions to the "big 12"...as if it somehow makes them bigger.. is a perfect example.
Whether it's IOWA's inherent strength.. the constant instability and realignment of the conference the clones belong to...or whatever. ISU and their future is always...defined by someone or someones...else. And that has never been more obvious.
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Golfer
Well-Known Member
Speaking for myself, I find the business of college football interesting. Don't judge us all by the vocal minority.
First let me clarify that I don't think ISU overtakes iowa in fan counts. The population centers won't allow it and it would take a massive nosedive from iowa for decades. Which won't happen.Interesting that these fantasies always involve someone else...making them great.
And what the hell does "we graduate more people from Iowa" have to do with it?" UMass graduates more kids from Massachusetts, but they'll never be Harvard.
Clone dreams
However, the "we graduate more people from Iowa" has some merit when you consider that Iowa is inhabited by mostly Iowans that were born and raised here. While ISU has graduated more Iowans for a long time, they have never had extended athletic success. iowa fans would go to school at ISU and have no reason to cheer for a losing team and switch their allegiance. Going to a football game pre 2000 was painful. 2000 and beyond, football started drawing many more fans and the experience along with moderate success began to convert fans. College students could be proud of saying they were fans. College students that entered ISU as hok fans were converted over their stay. Those graduates have bought into the gameday experience and want to continue after they graduate.
I fit this model. I was born and raised an iowa fan in eastern Iowa. I attended ISU and even though I worked at Jack Trice and could watch games from the sidelines, I sat in the office and watched iowa on TV. Over the years, I was converted when Walden went 0-10-1. Why it happened, I do not know but it did. I am now a season ticket holder and contributor. That would have never happened if I didn't attend ISU.
I have a brother-n-law that is a hok fan. Has been his whole life but went to ISU for school. Still cheers for iowa but living in Ankeny, he will come up to ISU games. This never would have happened if he never attended ISU.
Again, it would take massive failures on iowa's part and unprecedented success from ISU for decades to swith the fan population base. It won't happen
Jack Trice Stadium capcity when built in 1975 was 42,500 bleachers were added in 1976 to increase the capacity to 46,000. Capacity with hillsides is 50K.
Attendance numbers for Jack Trice with win loss record throughout the 70's
1975- 4-7 40,763
1976- 8-3 42,272
1977- 8-4 45,093
1978- 8-4 44,797
1979 3-8 52,465
Just for fun Clyde Williams numbers for the rest of the decade. Clyde Williams capacity was approx 35,000
1970-5-6 32,301
1971-8-4 33,539
1972-5-6-1 35,922
1973-4-7 39,107
1974-4-7 36,646
I know you were exagerating for effect but iowa didn't pack the house and ISU didn't have a half empty stadium when they were winning.
So many people seem to ignore this fact. The game brings in a tone of revenue to the state of Iowa and businesses.
Doesn't iowa benefit as well since the gate is split? I always get a kick out of iowa fans that ***** about the $90 price and then ***** about the gate split. Looks like ISU is trying to help both schools
Simple math
50K x $90 = $4,500,000
70K x $70 = $4,900,000
Difference is $400,000 total and $200K when split between schools.
As an ISU fan, I am ****** that iowa does not charge $90/ticket since the market has proven that is the value. On the otherhand, ISU increased their prices and closed the gap so the revenue taken in is much closer.
I don't see how iowa fans can ***** about increaseing the prices and the discrepancy in revenue at the same time. The only way to increase ISU's revenue is to increase ticket price or expand the stadium.
So should ISU reduce their ticket price and increase the discrepancy? And let's clarify that 2.3 million>1.5 million is over a four year period. On an anual basis it is about $200K. Now consider that during the first two years of that four year period, ISU was not charging $90 and the last two years, they are. So that number has been reduced due to the $90 ticket.Just trying to get you to see facts. Lets start with these:
1) 2.3 million > 1.5 million
2) Charging $30 more for a ticket > Charging $15 more for a ticket
3) Splitting the gate on a home and home series is more beneficial to the team with the smaller stadium, and less beneficial to the team with the larger stadium.
These have nothing to do with Iowa or ISU, these are just facts, and until you will at least acknowledge facts, I will continue to argue with your posts.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
Maybe I am missing something here, but I don't see how it "brings in" revenue to the state. There is no question that the game is big and sells out, but you're talking about to college fan bases in the same state. Bringing in revenue to the state generally refers to bringing in outside revenue. That is actually more valuable to the state economy when dollars from outside the state come in. So, dropping the game and allowing both ISU and Iowa to schedule solid out of state opponents would arguably be better overall for the state economy.
I suppose a few out of state alumni come back to the state? But that financial argument doesn't really work. As you mention you're trading two games for one; {[UI + x] + [ISU + y]} > [UI + ISU].
It is money spent that might not be spent. Ask you local bar owner if their bar does more business on the weekend of ISU/Iowa or on the weekend on iowa vs tOSU. How many people have parties the weekend of the ISU/iowa game that they do not otherwise have.
It is the spedning of recreational dollars. Now thta money might be spent in state at a different time OR people would take that money and budget it for something out of state. My point is the week of the ISU/iowa game is a very big week for businesses.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
Ok, well that's different than what you stated. What you stated was that it brings in revenue which is a phrase commonly attributed to bring in outside revenue into the state. Revenue that is generated from drawing people inside your borders is worth more to the state economy.
That said, your example isn't a good one because I've been in my local bar on for years on Iowa/ISU day and other days and honestly the most packed it has been in recent years was the year we upset PSU at home. While the Iowa/ISU game packs in a larger than normal crowd it's not the only game that packs people in and the owner told me that if anything that day causes more problems for him than it does actually generating more revenue than other games.
I'll grant you that there is probably some interstate revenue generated because of the rivalry. People buying more groceries for cookouts and game day than normal, but you'd have to prove that scenario has significantly more revenue impact than two separate games that is bringing in thousands from out of state to Ames and Iowa City.
There is definitely a dynamic of the rivalry that is irreplaceable. I won't dispute that, but I think you're exaggerating the financial impact it actually has. Most of those fans, be it Iowa or ISU, are going to be watching their team that weekend anyway and spending money.
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enisthemenace
Well-Known Member
I just have to shake my head. If Iowa State is defining itself through others, or other's validation, as you suggest, Iowa fans, such as yourself, are delusional.
Of all the schools in the BIG, only Nebraska means less to that cooshy BTN deal, which pumps massive amounts of TV money into each institution's pockets, than Iowa.
To say Iowa isn't reliant on Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Penn State, Minnesota, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois and, yes, even Northwestern, while keeping a straight face, is to be uninformed, at best...
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
All your really talking about is recirculating a very small amount of dollars.
Probably very few people actually come to the state for this game that otherwise wouldn't be there. It has no interest outside the state for ad and tv money.
I don't see how the game really has any tangible effect on the sates economy.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
All this shows is bitterness and ignorance on your part.......Iowa is...oh why bother?!?! I’ll say this...Iowa is way up the money food chain from all but about 4, maybe 5 of those schools. Granted the state of Iowa aint Michigan, but they don't need both Michigan schools and Illinois is about a lot more than NW or Illinois. You’re just mad about being ISU who isn’t Iowa.....Do some real research then come back.
So should ISU reduce their ticket price and increase the discrepancy? And let's clarify that 2.3 million>1.5 million is over a four year period. On an anual basis it is about $200K. Now consider that during the first two years of that four year period, ISU was not charging $90 and the last two years, they are. So that number has been reduced due to the $90 ticket.Just trying to get you to see facts. Lets start with these: 1) 2.3 million > 1.5 million2) Charging $30 more for a ticket > Charging $15 more for a ticket3) Splitting the gate on a home and home series is more beneficial to the team with the smaller stadium, and less beneficial to the team with the larger stadium. These have nothing to do with Iowa or ISU, these are just facts, and until you will at least acknowledge facts, I will continue to argue with your posts.
Its a moot point since they are going to stop splitting gates but go back a couple of pages and you can see how ISU has been screwing Iowa out of 10's of thousands of dollars every other year when its their turn to split the gate. The fact ISU averaged their home attendance over the season to come up with the number they used to pay Iowa is a joke. Especially when in some years the difference between the Iowa game attendance and other ISU home games were 10k or more. Just plain laughable.
enisthemenace
Well-Known Member
I've done the research. Have you? By shear number of paid subscribers, in the BIG footprint, Iowa outpaces only Nebraska. That is an absolute, 100% fact.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
You are talking purely "footprint" info and no research needs be done, it’s obvious. Hence my comment about Michigan only needing one school for the footprint. I’d have thought for a well researched chap like you that would have been obvious.......Iowa is Iowa and makes more money than all but 4 other Big 10 schools. So in that frame we are NO…Iowa State....and yes I have done loads and loads of research. You do NEED these others schools, you wouldn’t even pull THIS STATE ON YOUR OWN…Iowa could. And that is only the beginning for Iowa….
Truly I wouldn’t even care but when a chap like you cruises over here to defend yourself against something that is undefendable and totally irrelevant to the comment you need to “get” what’s really factual…
The comment stemmed from ISU fans continually and without shame, validating themselves through “other” programs….we do not do this. We are Iowa, not the greatest but pretty darn good. And self-sufficient when it comes to monies….
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