Wisconsin clearly fumbled on the last play

[hawkfan2679]

The refs not enforcing the rules is only one of the things that could have gone wrong there. You also have a fumbled snap, or a fumble by the QB would lose the game for Wisconsin. If an offensive player would get injured, that is a clock run off with no TO. A penalty by the offense would have meant a loss as well.

Sure the officials should make the correct calls. All I am saying is that it was a p!ss poor coaching decision to bring all of those things into play, just to center the ball for a chip shot FG

What if the coaching decision was driven by Anderson going to his kicker and asking where he wanted the ball and said kicker told him that he wanted it in the center or that he didn't want anything to do with the right hash? We could play the "What if?" game all day long...let's not get too far from the main point. Wisconsin did what they needed to do in order to position themselves perfectly for a game winning FG and the refs took that opportunity away from them.

 

[thejumper5]

Kicking a FG when you are out of range is a bad idea. Kicking a FG when you are in range is a good idea.

Like I said, all things equal, there is plenty of time to run a play, spot the ball, and spike it. All things are not equal at the end of the game. Like someone else said, listen to the announcer, there are several bad things that can happen by running that play. The real question is, why take the risk when you are already in chip shot range?

That's the thing, Wisconsin WAS out of range. They weren't out of range in terms of length of the field goal, but given the capabilities of their kicker, they were out of range in terms of the width of the field goal.

 

[thejumper5]

If you have a TO left, by all means run a play. How can you even compare the two? The opponents can't keep you from calling a TO, but they can keep you from lining up and running another play. They could lay on Greene for 10 min., but as soon soon as the play is whistled dead, you can call TO.

You're right about this, but what if the refs are so grossly incompetent that they fail to acknowledge your attempt to call the timeout? You might have it planned out perfectly that you're planning to take a timeout, but the officials still have to do their jobs correctly and allow your timeout to be recognized. Given the incompetence of the officials on Saturday night, the idea that the officials would ignore a team's attempts to call a timeout isn't outside the realm of possibility.

 

[deanvogs]

What if the coaching decision was driven by Anderson going to his kicker and asking where he wanted the ball and said kicker told him that he wanted it in the center or that he didn't want anything to do with the right hash? We could play the "What if?" game all day long...let's not get too far from the main point. Wisconsin did what they needed to do in order to position themselves perfectly for a game winning FG and the refs took that opportunity away from them.

I will give you the bolded point.

Now tell me why you would risk that play as a head coach for a 30 yard FG? The announcer listed many things that could go wrong, I did as well. I could care less if the kicker wants the ball in the center.....I bet the QB and offense would love to start every drive inside the opponents 20. You don't get what you want, you have to produce with what you got. I just think it is a dumb coaching call whether it works or doesn't work for a 30 yd field goal.

 

[deanvogs]

You're right about this, but what if the refs are so grossly incompetent that they fail to acknowledge your attempt to call the timeout? You might have it planned out perfectly that you're planning to take a timeout, but the officials still have to do their jobs correctly and allow your timeout to be recognized. Given the incompetence of the officials on Saturday night, the idea that the officials would ignore a team's attempts to call a timeout isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Then you lose I guess Jumper. You got me good on this one....I mean there is absolutely no difference between calling a TO, and ref having to get players off of a ball, and get the ball spotted.

I don't know how many more times I can say it. Wisconsin should have had time if the refs did their job to spike that ball. I still think it is a very, very dumb coaching call to run that play just to get to the center of the field on a 30 yard FG.

 

[theboat]

This thread took off.

This would be funnier if it was Bielema, but I think the coaches made the right decision and executed it poorly. If there was 10-12 seconds I would agree that it was a dumb call. The problem lies with the fact that the QB knew to take a knee, he knew to set the ball to make it easy to spot, but somehow he seemed shocked that the clock was running out. He should have had the team lined up and been under center by 8 or 9 seconds and then the refs would have had no choice.

 

[Eda]

Then you lose I guess Jumper. You got me good on this one....I mean there is absolutely no difference between calling a TO, and ref having to get players off of a ball, and get the ball spotted.

I don't know how many more times I can say it. Wisconsin should have had time if the refs did their job to spike that ball. I still think it is a very, very dumb coaching call to run that play just to get to the center of the field on a 30 yard FG.

I can agree with you it would be a dumb call if there was 8 seconds left. But there was 18 seconds left. More than enough time for the sequence of events to take place... With no stress.

Complete blunder by the officials. I can't fault the Wisconsin coaching staff at all in this situation.

 

[theboat]

I can agree with you it would be a dumb call if there was 8 seconds left. But there was 18 seconds left. More than enough time for the sequence of events to take place... With no stress.

Complete blunder by the officials. I can't fault the Wisconsin coaching staff at all in this situation.

Ditto. For the life of me, I can't figure out why the QB wasn't paying closer attention though. You would think that would be the only thing you are watching, but he wasn't paying attention.

 

[hawkfan2679]

Now tell me why you would risk that play as a head coach for a 30 yard FG? The announcer listed many things that could go wrong, I did as well. I could care less if the kicker wants the ball in the center.....I bet the QB and offense would love to start every drive inside the opponents 20. You don't get what you want, you have to produce with what you got. I just think it is a dumb coaching call whether it works or doesn't work for a 30 yd field goal.

If you've got a kick with the magnitude that it could win a game, it's pretty standard operating procedure to go to your kicker and ask him where he wants the ball (if the you have the opportunity to do so, which Wisconsin did, or tried to do, by centering it). Again, if you have the chance, you want that kid to be as comfortable as possible because the outcome of the kick determines the win or loss. The things you brought up as possibilities of happening...sure, they could happen, but even if you add up all those probabilities of happening, what do you get? 5%? Offset that with putting your kicker in the best chance to make the kick...I think there are quite a few coaches (as evidenced by how many teams do this little centering maneuver) will take that risk.

 

[deanvogs]

If you've got a kick with the magnitude that it could win a game, it's pretty standard operating procedure to go to your kicker and ask him where he wants the ball (if the you have the opportunity to do so, which Wisconsin did, or tried to do, by centering it). Again, if you have the chance, you want that kid to be as comfortable as possible because the outcome of the kick determines the win or loss. The things you brought up as possibilities of happening...sure, they could happen, but even if you add up all those probabilities of happening, what do you get? 5%? Offset that with putting your kicker in the best chance to make the kick...I think there are quite a few coaches (as evidenced by how many teams do this little centering maneuver) will take that risk.

We just have a difference of opinion then. You really don't see this that often with little time left and zero TO's. Iowa had 2 TO's left and ran 2 plays with 18 sec. left. in 2008 against Penn St. Not only that, Greene didn't get it to the middle of the field, Murray had to kick it from the hash basically.

 

[hawkfan2679]

We just have a difference of opinion then. You really don't see this that often with little time left and zero TO's. Iowa had 2 TO's left and ran 2 plays with 18 sec. left. in 2008 against Penn St. Not only that, Greene didn't get it to the middle of the field, Murray had to kick it from the hash basically.

I agree (that we disagree ). To be honest, some (small majority?) right footed kickers, if it's not a straight on kick, prefer the right hash because they have the entirety of the goal post to work with...in that situation I would have expected Ferentz (or someone) walk over to Murray and ask him where he'd want to kick it from. Not saying that is how everyone operates, but I've spoken with several coaches and heard of quite a few more that will do that.

 

[hawkfan340]

Couple of things to add...

1. I do think the Iowa-PSU game was different due to the TO situation. That said 18 seconds is more than enough time to accomplish what Wisconsin was trying to do.

2. I agree that the QB should have been more demonstrative in getting his guys to the line. This may have had a pyschological effect on the refs to hurry them up. The refs behavior was still unfathomable though.

3. Pro kickers may like to kick from the hash, because the hash is in line with the goal post. College hash is wider than the goal post so college kickers prefer the middle of the field. Especially for a pressure kick, you want to make it as easy as possible.

4. Just last year, Utah State had a chance to center the ball against Wisconsin to kick the game winning FG with 11 seconds left. They chose not to do so and they're kicker missed from just inside the right hash. This was almos the identical situation as Wisconsin was in on Saturday, and Wisconsin is now coached by former Utah State coach Gary Anderson. The coincidences are uncanny.

5. Centering the ball would give Wisconsin the best chance of making the FG. They had time to do so. They were leaving no stone unturned. Refs screwed them.