Wide receivers with speed needed

[Ickehawk]

No no no Icke....Florida is not spelled Flowida, FYI.
Speed and quickness in wide RECEIVERS are missing at Iowa. That hinders our scoring capabilities. We won 12 games. Great. Next season may bring better receivers I'm hoping. If not, run run run and then lose to MSU and STANFORD.again. And, watch CJB get pounded while holding the ball.
Gotta go sit in the sun now.. Stay warm Icke! XOX

Well, it sounds like CJ needs to quit holding the ball then, now doesn't it. Oh, and I really doubt we play MSU and Stanford again next year. We'll beat either OSU or Mich. in the B1G CCG, and then play Alabama in the playoffs, but regardless if that even happens, the chances of us actually playing both MSU and Stanford again next year are slim to none.
Don't know where you live in Flowida, but I'll be down in the Ft. Myers area at the end of the month, so save some sunshine for me and if you're in that area, I'll let you buy me a cold one while I explain some things to you, lol.

 

[Ickehawk]

Iowa had enough speed last season, IMO. The Smiths were enough speed. What Iowa's receivers, generally, didn't have was an ability to get open. That is what tripped up the previous Iowa QB who went to Michigan...he didn't have the confidence to throw to very small windows because Iowa's receivers didn't know how to get open.

Iowa needs more receivers like former Iowans E. Hinkel, D. Douglass and M. McNutt. Neither had blazing speed but had the knowledge to get open.

Maybe Iowa needs a receivers coach to teach receivers not to stand around when the play breaks down or how to get open quickly. You don't need speed for that.

Some good points, Homer. Especially the last line. How many stinkin times did we see WR's just standing there facing the QB!!! It drove me nuts. Do they ever practice scramble drills? Whoever was the receiver coach when Drew Tate was there (can't remember off the top of my head) worked on this constantly, because they knew that Drew was going to keep a play alive and keep looking downfield. Because they practiced it, he knew EXACTLY where Hinkel and Solomon, etc... were going to go after executing their initial route. Well, now we have another QB who keeps plays alive but he has to run with it and take a beating because our receivers are just fricken standing there watching! Speed has nothing to do with it. Coaching primary and SECONDARY routes has everything to do with it. Never been impressed with GD and I'm not impressed with his WR coach sidekick. WR play has taken a step back since he came on board in my opinion, and it's not because of talent! Woods did a fantastic job with 2 TE's that were expected to just spell Duzey!

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Lack of talent on the O-line? I will disagree there, sir. We knew going into the year that we were raw (inexperienced) at both OT spots and that it would be a work in progress. If Myers and Boetg could have stayed healthy (with a very capable Croston backing them up), I think we would have been in good shape by the Rose Bowl, but that was not the case, and the OT spots were a revolving door most of the year with Croston making starts on both the left and right side, Daniels having to play the right side, and Welch having to play the right side, etc... This line over performed this year in my opinion, as most thought that we would be lucky to win 7 games because our line was going to be so bad, but the 7 that played this year, fought their butts off and the great majority of the time excelled in run blocking. We only had 2 starters in the Rose Bowl playing positions from who our projected starters were for the year. Blythe and Walsh. Welch had to play out of position at RT (he is going to be an all-conf. Guard) and Croston and Daniels were 2nd teamers. You can get away with that make shift line-up against most teams, and we did at times, but not the really good ones. Myers, Boetger, Croston, Daniels, Welsh are all very talented, they just need to stay healthy and get reps IN THE SAME POSITIONS WEEK TO WEEK SO THEY DEVELOPE CHEMISTRY. If those 5 can stay healthy next year, you are going to see how talented they are and this offense will have a bigger year than they did this year easily.
As for your last line, with all the injuries and revolving door at OT (as well as CJ's injury), it appeared that GD (knowing time would be an issue and his QB wasn't very mobile most of the time) did dictate to get the ball out sooner to intermediate routes instead of taking shots down the field. Not the fault of the WR's. T. Smith can make a play on the ball in man coverage with about anyone and the Mich. St. corner had to grab Vandy as he went flying by him.

You misunderstood me regarding the oline. Talent is there, experience was not, and it showed against better defenses. I think we'll be fine on the Oline, but lack of OT experienced depth hurt last year.

 

[HomerChampless]

Another Iowa receiver that the Iowa offense totally misused: Jacob Hillyer. He had the size but not the speed like Marvin McNutt. Why weren't more balls thrown to him so only he could jump to catch them? Why weren't passes thrown to him so he could body out the defender...like McNutt?

 

[deanvogs]

Another Iowa receiver that the Iowa offense totally misused: Jacob Hillyer. He had the size but not the speed like Marvin McNutt. Why weren't more balls thrown to him so only he could jump to catch them? Why weren't passes thrown to him so he could body out the defender...like McNutt?

That is what we use the TE for. Thoughout his career he never showed explosiveness, a consistent ability to get open, or great hands. So I guess I don't know why you would specifically target him for anything.

 

[HomerChampless]

That is what we use the TE for. Thoughout his career he never showed explosiveness, a consistent ability to get open, or great hands. So I guess I don't know why you would specifically target him for anything.

One could say those negative attributes pertained to just about every 2015 Iowa receiver except for Smith with his speed (wouldn't say explosiveness).

That last of Hillyer was a continuation of my premise that Iowa receivers couldn't get open and that being more important than more speed. Make Hillyer jump to get open. Make Hillyer shield his body away from the defender's ability to touch the ball to get open.

 

[deanvogs]

One could say that about every 2015 Iowa receiver except for Smith with his speed (wouldn't say explosiveness).

Vandeberg got open all the time. As you wisely pointed out, you can get open without blazing speed. Heck look at KMM, he was always open. I don't think he was a game breaker, but he was always open.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Yep.

GD is half of it. KFz is the other half.

Great wide receivers play where they will get the ball thrown to them... a lot... and downfield. While blocking is an important skill, it isn't what gets a WR into the NFL. Play making does.

I've been called a hater in the past because I've stated much the same as you, particularly, in the DW debacle. But WR's don't go through any blocking drills at the combine or on SR days when getting ready for the draft. They showcase their speed, route running abilities and catching ability. Iowa doesn't appear to play a WR until they learn how to block first and become average or better blockers. In my opinion, that limits the pool of HS kids that would, otherwise, consider Iowa. This isn't to say a receiver shouldn't block, but running a corner downfield and out of a play is the same as blocking that corner at the line of scrimmage and taking him out of the play.

 

[deanvogs]

I've been called a hater in the past because I've stated much the same as you, particularly, in the DW debacle. But WR's don't go through any blocking drills at the combine or on SR days when getting ready for the draft. They showcase their speed, route running abilities and catching ability. Iowa doesn't appear to play a WR until they learn how to block first and become average or better blockers. In my opinion, that limits the pool of HS kids that would, otherwise, consider Iowa. This isn't to say a receiver shouldn't block, but running a corner downfield and out of a play is the same as blocking that corner at the line of scrimmage and taking him out of the play.

I don't think I'd be making it public that you agreed with Homer.....especially about a player who is only concerned about "getting his". Plus let's not forget that it was posters you and Homer who lectured us that KF doesn't play talent, and acted like Vandeberg was total crap and DW was a superstar. Let's say you got your way and this year DW plays and Vandeberg transferred. I'd bet a million bucks we don't go undefeated with that "me" player instead of Vandeberg. Some players are addition by subtraction, as is the case here.

Would you you be supporting Jerminic Smith if he was transferring after this year, because he didn't get enough playing time? Would it have been "ok" to quit midsession, then want back and then not be willing to accept responsibility for quitting your teammates and decide to leave again? I can't believe there are still people still think DW was a "debacle", when it was nothing more than a selfish immature kid having a temper tantrum.

 

[Ickehawk]

I've been called a hater in the past because I've stated much the same as you, particularly, in the DW debacle. But WR's don't go through any blocking drills at the combine or on SR days when getting ready for the draft. They showcase their speed, route running abilities and catching ability. Iowa doesn't appear to play a WR until they learn how to block first and become average or better blockers. In my opinion, that limits the pool of HS kids that would, otherwise, consider Iowa. This isn't to say a receiver shouldn't block, but running a corner downfield and out of a play is the same as blocking that corner at the line of scrimmage and taking him out of the play.

Whether the corner is going to run downfield with the receiver depends on what coverage they are in, but if they are in man, than yes, it is actually better to run the defender down the field because he is running with his back to the play and has no idea where the ball is. Most of the time against a zone, the receivers need to block. By the way, DW was one of the best blockers we had which is why he played the amount he did. He was a totally undisciplined route runner though. His routes would have improved and he would have had a lot more balls thrown his way, had he been patient while he matured. We have pretty good receivers. The problem as I see it is with the scheme and the progressions/reads the QB's are given. It has been the same for Vandy, Rudock and now CJ since GD has taken over. I expect to see CJ check down even more next year.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

KFz's offensive approach has always been ball control and risk management. It's not a scheme for top play making WRs. That pretty much covers it.

 

[ryno]

KFz's offensive approach has always been ball control and risk management. It's not a scheme for top play making WRs. That pretty much covers it.

That is totally it. Go 12-0, don't really care what the scheme is! Ask Purdue,Illinois, Nebraska, etc. do you want 500 yards a game and be .500 or below, or protect ball, play defense and consistently win. As much as Iowa can be frustrating to watch in modern day football, wins are all that matter in the end

 

[PCHawk]

That is totally it. Go 12-0, don't really care what the scheme is! Ask Purdue,Illinois, Nebraska, etc. do you want 500 yards a game and be .500 or below, or protect ball, play defense and consistently win. As much as Iowa can be frustrating to watch in modern day football, wins are all that matter in the end

Playing that way doesn't make it more likely to win. It's just more likely to be boring.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Playing that way doesn't make it more likely to win. It's just more likely to be boring.

This could turn into a whole new thread...vis a vis... actual risk management vs perceived risk management and/or playing to win vs playing "not-to-lose".

Without going there..the simple premise remains; if you want great wide receivers you have to show that you're going to use them. Blocking skills are important, but NFL teams don't draft WRs because they're great blockers...they draft great play makers.

 

[HawkeyeStout]

Stop with the "need for speed" craze. While I do agree that vertical threats help a pro style running offense, I think you guys are too obsessed. I think Tevaun did a more than sufficient job. Might even say great. Injuries certainly didn't help him and play calling didn't either.

Let's remember J Smith had that one great game he started in which he had 4 receptions for 100+ I believe... I expect plenty more where that came from.

If you want to blame anything on the lack of vertical threat, blame the fact that we didn't take shots early and often.

 

[DBAHawkFan]

Stop with the "need for speed" craze. While I do agree that vertical threats help a pro style running offense, I think you guys are too obsessed. I think Tevaun did a more than sufficient job. Might even say great. Injuries certainly didn't help him and play calling didn't either.

Let's remember J Smith had that one great game he started in which he had 4 receptions for 100+ I believe... I expect plenty more where that came from.

If you want to blame anything on the lack of vertical threat, blame the fact that we didn't take shots early and often.

I actually feel like KF uses a "rope a dope" strategy for football. He keeps everything close, don't do too much, don't show too much. Hang in there and deliver body blows for 3 quarters, and then in the 4th, take your shots down the field.

Problem is, we allow ALL teams to stay close. And we don't seem to adapt well if our defense can't stop the other team. I still remember everyone around me at the Rose Bowl just moaning because we're down 21-0 and we come out on our next possession and run the stretch play twice.

We have the WR, we just don't use them. Part of it is GD stupid scheme of running them 3 yard out patterns, and the other problem is KF insisting on low risk plays. We just happened to get a lot more production out of our RB this year than the past three years (helps not running FB)

 

[Floridahawkeye1]

Hung on in many games. Should have stomped most of them. KF afraid to let it rip. Should have defeated MSU. Could have given Stanford a better game Three yard pass plays and a cloud of dust. Why? Slow receivers. Inability to get separation. Stopped running . GD might be the culprit?

 

[Ickehawk]

Hung on in many games. Should have stomped most of them. KF afraid to let it rip. Should have defeated MSU. Could have given Stanford a better game Three yard pass plays and a cloud of dust. Why? Slow receivers. Inability to get separation. Stopped running . GD might be the culprit?

Yes.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Pointing to the need for speed at WR is a valid point to make because "experts" describe Iowa's receivers as not being able to get separation. Speed helps with that. So does size. So does spreading the defense out.

Overall, I agree we would have beaten MSU if we would have thrown more...and thrown deep. Sometimes, playing to minimize mistakes results in less mistakes, but also less big plays and less scoring. I said leading up the the MSU game that if Iowa didn't start throwing the ball first, we wouldn't win another game because a ball control offense/clock management offense, does score many points. Look, defense wins championships, but offense wins games. We didn't field an offensive strategy, our last two games, that game us the best chance to score points.

 

[Hawkboys]

I think they tried throwing deep at least 5 more times in the game. 1 time in the 1st half, CJ missed Riley wide open (nobody w/in 15yds of him) in the end zone but most of the other times, he just didn't have time.