Why KF needs to move on. Non emotional opinions.

BSpringsteen

BSpringsteen

Well-Known Member
I said after the 2008 season that the most impressive thing about it was that KF had lost the program and built it back up. Not too many coaches can build a program up, maintain it, lose it and then build it up again. It's a true testament to his talent.

But our program appears to be on the way down in a serious way. It's not about this season right now. It's about last season, and it is about the defensive front 7, and what the defense is going to look like next year. The fact of the matter is that we are not going to have a serious talent issue in the coming years, because we are starting several players who do not appear to be legit B1G players.

I simply do not believe that Kirk will be able to bring the program back for a third time. That isn't a knock against him, few if any coaches would be able to do that.

But he built the program up by playing not to lose and even with superior talent, he's maintained that approach. His strengths are that he is a great face of the program and a great developer of talent.

But I don't think even his most ardent supporters would say he is a great in game coach, great strategist, great marketer of the program or great recruiter. We will need all of this to build the program up again.

You also have to question his judgement. Burning a shirt in garbage time last week to not play the same player this week. Putting up huge offensive numbers in a hurry up offense and then calling a no huddle where we still take 30 seconds to run the play.

This isn't to say that I want the anti KF to come in, just that I don't believe we will enjoy the success we've become accustomed to again anytime soon and that new blood is inevitable.

That being said, KF is also one of the most well respected coaches in all of football. To fire him would be suicide by firing. Who could go work for someone that fired Kirk Ferentz? No one.

Kirk needs to look himself in the mirror and determine what his appetite is for another rebuilding project because at this point it's not this season or next season that is on the line, it is his legacy at Iowa. He has not earned the right to leave on his own terms. He is not yet beyond reproach.

He can leave at this point knowing that he has left the program in better shape than he found it. I am not optimistic that will be the case in three years.
 
KF is first and foremost a line coach. While we had great line play in 2009 and some flashes of brilliance early in 2010, for the most part the element of the game that made us so good from 2002-2004 just hasn't been there. We're never gonna get the Ted Ginns and Mark Ingrams of the world to come to IC, so we've gotta play to our strengths and something just hasn't seemed right about the line play in the recent past. If he wants to focus on that, he's gotta either get the absolute best recruits or have the absolute best development program, and to be blunt, I haven't seen him winning on those fronts of late. I don't want the guy to get fired, but I am sorely disappointed with the amounts they are charging fans and paying him relative to the performance we saw in 2010 and thus far this year.
 
BSpringsteen said:
I said after the 2008 season that the most impressive thing about it was that KF had lost the program and built it back up. Not too many coaches can build a program up, maintain it, lose it and then build it up again. It's a true testament to his talent.

But our program appears to be on the way down in a serious way. It's not about this season right now. It's about last season, and it is about the defensive front 7, and what the defense is going to look like next year. The fact of the matter is that we are not going to have a serious talent issue in the coming years, because we are starting several players who do not appear to be legit B1G players.

I simply do not believe that Kirk will be able to bring the program back for a third time. That isn't a knock against him, few if any coaches would be able to do that.

But he built the program up by playing not to lose and even with superior talent, he's maintained that approach. His strengths are that he is a great face of the program and a great developer of talent.

But I don't think even his most ardent supporters would say he is a great in game coach, great strategist, great marketer of the program or great recruiter. We will need all of this to build the program up again.

You also have to question his judgement. Burning a shirt in garbage time last week to not play the same player this week. Putting up huge offensive numbers in a hurry up offense and then calling a no huddle where we still take 30 seconds to run the play.

This isn't to say that I want the anti KF to come in, just that I don't believe we will enjoy the success we've become accustomed to again anytime soon and that new blood is inevitable.

That being said, KF is also one of the most well respected coaches in all of football. To fire him would be suicide by firing. Who could go work for someone that fired Kirk Ferentz? No one.

Kirk needs to look himself in the mirror and determine what his appetite is for another rebuilding project because at this point it's not this season or next season that is on the line, it is his legacy at Iowa. He has not earned the right to leave on his own terms. He is not yet beyond reproach.

He can leave at this point knowing that he has left the program in better shape than he found it. I am not optimistic that will be the case in three years.
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I think a big part about being a HC is putting your players in a position to succeed. I don't think putting a 170 pound true freshman in a tight road game in front of 107,000 hostile fans and in which the team around him were executing horribly is a situation in which that player was likely to succeed.

That's what always makes me laugh at posts like this, some people see things so black and white and don't stop to realize that each decision has positive and negative possible outcomes.
 
BSpringsteen said:
Well I think you are right Duff...

But then why burn the shirt last week in garbage time?
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Because we needed depth at the RB situation in the event something happened to Coker. If he goes down next in line is a true freshman (White is not our backup) who is in no condition to carry the whole load. Some people under estimate what having a handful of reps under your belt does for confidence your stomach.

Canzeri was lined up deep on kicks which is an ideal spot for him, and had the game gone differently I think we would have seen him in the backfield in a handful of plays.

I also think there will be opportunities for him to get some action as the season goes on.
 
the phrase used above "......the success we've become accustomed to.." struck me.

Iowa had a 3 year run 2002 - 2004 and a 2 year run 2008 and 2009. 2008 is included because the team finshed strong.

Apart from those 2 periods, Iowa has been mediocre, with some exciting flashes here and there.

Dang I hate to say it but the win loss records don't tell me anything else.
 
BSpringsteen said:
But then why burn the shirt last week in garbage time?
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Because garbage time against ULM is the perfect time to pull a redshirt. Canzeri will see his role grow as the season progresses. This week, he was on KOR. The people who were predicting 10 carries for him in front of 109k were flat out dreaming. Its like people haven't watched this staff the last dozen years.

At this time last year, Coker had appeared in one game. He had 10 garbage time carries against Ball State. Then he went three games in a row without a carry. Then 16 in garbage time against MSU, and was forced into action thanks to the ARob concussion that should never have happened.
 
NCHawker said:
the phrase used above "......the success we've become accustomed to.." struck me.

Iowa had a 3 year run 2002 - 2004 and a 2 year run 2008 and 2009. 2008 is included because the team finshed strong.

Apart from those 2 periods, Iowa has been mediocre, with some exciting flashes here and there.

Dang I hate to say it but the win loss records don't tell me anything else.
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Kirk Ferentz did an unbelievable job of quickly building up the program and having big success early on.. And those three years from 2002-04 were fantastic. I don't expect 10+ wins every season, nor do I really even expect 8-9 wins EVERY year. The occasional 6-7 win rebuilding year is to be expected as far as I'm concerned.

But I can't help but notice that it's been 4 out of 6 years, or maybe 5 of 7 depending on how this year goes, seasons where we've had 7 or less wins before a bowl game. That's more than just the occasional rebuilding year.. That's 2 out of every 3 on average.

So what has changed since 2004? Were we just lucky from 2002-04? I don't think so. 3 straight #8 finishes doesn't strike me as lucky. So what happened to the success? Has KF lost his fire? Has the game passed him by since then? Has the rest of the Big 10 adjusted to us, and we are yet to adjust? Are we not getting the same talent that we did 8-10 years ago?

I don't have the answer to that. But there's been a definite overall drop off since 2004.
 
Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Didn't you win a BCS game two seasons ago? I wouldn't overreact too much.

I wouldn't worry about yesterday too much. I bet it was Penn State's Super Bowl.
 
DuffMan said:
I think a big part about being a HC is putting your players in a position to succeed. I don't think putting a 170 pound true freshman in a tight road game in front of 107,000 hostile fans and in which the team around him were executing horribly is a situation in which that player was likely to succeed.

That's what always makes me laugh at posts like this, some people see things so black and white and don't stop to realize that each decision has positive and negative possible outcomes.
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I disagree. Not getting Canzeri or Bullock any carries yesterday seems like the perfect example of KF's "playing not to lose" mindset. You're absolutely correct that many negative things can go wrong...but some good things could also occur, like a quicker RB being able to get to the edge faster and potentially gain more yards on the ground. Maybe getting a change of pace RB in the game to give the PSU defense something different to look at. To me, not getting a younger player carries on the road is akin to never getting on a plane b/c sometimes they crash. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I disagree, and feel like it's the ongoing conservative, playing not to lose methodology, which is getting tougher and tougher to stomach when IA continually loses close games.
 
BSpringsteen said:
I said after the 2008 season that the most impressive thing about it was that KF had lost the program and built it back up. Not too many coaches can build a program up, maintain it, lose it and then build it up again. It's a true testament to his talent.

I think this is a brilliant statements and hits it right on the head. The question is can and does KF want to go thru it all again to be competitive in the Big 10 again. I understand being college football you can't just flip the ****** next year it has to be a process.

Last year was awful to finish 7-5 with that talent that everyone says Iowa never has. A great coaching staff is suppose to be an advantage in a game. Having a staff that has been together 12 plus years is suppose to benefit us on game day. At this point I don't think anyone feels Iowa has that advantage like it should.
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SeattleHawkeye said:
I disagree. Not getting Canzeri or Bullock any carries yesterday seems like the perfect example of KF's "playing not to lose" mindset. You're absolutely correct that many negative things can go wrong...but some good things could also occur...
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This
 
Again -

This isn't KF can't coach, or KF sucks kind of post.

He has done tons for Iowa.

But he isn't Hayden, he doesn't get to write his own exit yet.

This year is going to be mediocre AT BEST. Next year could very easily be worse. He will enter 2013 on a very very hot seat unless he gets the can't miss recruit.

Think about 2008 if Shonn Greene doesn't decide he wants to come back to Iowa City.

I would wager a lot of money that if Shonn Greene doesn't come back to Iowa, KF isn't coaching Iowa right now.

He is still a respected enough mind that he can carve his own path, but it looks like the job in front of him is huge.
 
BSpringsteen said:
Again -

This isn't KF can't coach, or KF sucks kind of post.

He has done tons for Iowa.

But he isn't Hayden, he doesn't get to write his own exit yet.

This year is going to be mediocre AT BEST. Next year could very easily be worse. He will enter 2013 on a very very hot seat unless he gets the can't miss recruit.

Think about 2008 if Shonn Greene doesn't decide he wants to come back to Iowa City.

I would wager a lot of money that if Shonn Greene doesn't come back to Iowa, KF isn't coaching Iowa right now.

He is still a respected enough mind that he can carve his own path, but it looks like the job in front of him is huge.
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If Kirk did move on, it would be a good move for him. 13 years at one place is a lot. A new job/fresh start could fire him up a bit.

Personally I think it would be a bad move for Iowa. Its rare to find a coach who is willing to stay for so long even though other places have shown interest. Like it or not, Iowa is not viewed as a destination job, but I do believe they could keep a good coach around for awhile because they do have a lot of money coming in.

To the point I bolded above, Kirk would need to have 2 seasons at minimum, probably more with horrible records, and serious off the field issues for him to be on the hot seat. I'm talking worst team in the B10 and getting blown out and serious wide spread legal problems.
 
BSpringsteen said:
Again -

This isn't KF can't coach, or KF sucks kind of post.

He has done tons for Iowa.

But he isn't Hayden, he doesn't get to write his own exit yet.

This year is going to be mediocre AT BEST. Next year could very easily be worse. He will enter 2013 on a very very hot seat unless he gets the can't miss recruit.

Think about 2008 if Shonn Greene doesn't decide he wants to come back to Iowa City.

I would wager a lot of money that if Shonn Greene doesn't come back to Iowa, KF isn't coaching Iowa right now.

He is still a respected enough mind that he can carve his own path, but it looks like the job in front of him is huge.
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You do have one thing right, he isn't Hayden, but I can bet that if KF moves on the program will be in a WHOLE lot better shape than when Hayden walked. Sorry, but if you would like to see KF move on, did you have the same feelings for Hayden at the end?

I am not here to rip Hayden, but I do think that there is a lot of differences and similarities between the two's tenure. One, Iowa has at one time under thier tenure been considered a Top 10 caliber program for a few years, not just one or two. Two, they each have sent their fair share of players in the NFL and have garnered a lot of attention from the NFL with their players being successful. The one big difference between the two is their personality and it is easy to let a guy like KF walk and want to keep Hayden around as long as possible because of that.

It is mind-boggling to want to see KF walk to me. It is going to happen at some point and I really hope Iowa is prepared for it...if not, it will be a long time before they return.

Do I agree with all that KF does, absolutely not, but for what he has accomplished since being at Iowa weather you think there is some mediocrity or not is still a heck of a lot better than some other 13 year stretches.

Hayden and KF have both brought Iowa from the ashes, but neither has been able to beat Ohio State when it mattered most.

Iowa has been to how many BCS games with KF in a time when OSU has absolutely dominated, Illinois came out of nowhere one season and Wiscosin now has a pulse. It is a little different time since Hayden has left. Michigan has been down of late, but at the beginning of KF's tenure they were still pretty good. Oh yeah, even though Iowa has handled them for the most part, PSU and MSU haven't been too bad in KF's time either. The doormats have remained, but with some other HC changes, other programs have been a lot more competitive, no fault of KF.

To want him to "move on" is amazing to me, but I guess it is always easiest to want someone else, just like players.

Speaking of players, how many players have been drafted in the last three years...and you wonder why their front seven looks the way it does...please.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
Kirk Ferentz did an unbelievable job of quickly building up the program and having big success early on.. And those three years from 2002-04 were fantastic. I don't expect 10+ wins every season, nor do I really even expect 8-9 wins EVERY year. The occasional 6-7 win rebuilding year is to be expected as far as I'm concerned.
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I think a lot of the fans discontent is the fact that this was to be the rebuilding year. Last year was the year we completely underutilized the talent and made several coaching errors. I think we need to accept this as a rebuilding year and make great strides into next year. I think the coaching phiosophy could certainly use some major changes. I don't think this year or next we have the horses to line up on a talent level with a lot of teams we play.
 
It all started with the dropped pass on the first drive that forced a 4th down on the PSU 35ish. I understand the long term reasoning of the punt, but it was the wrong decision.
 
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