hogeye
Well-Known Member
Now you're moving the goal posts in the discussion in order to justify your stance.
Why is McNutt only a 4th round projection?
- Thread starter DuffMan
- Start date
Now you're moving the goal posts in the discussion in order to justify your stance.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Again, Timmy Chang was once the best college quarterback of all time. Dude put up better numbers than Peyton Manning!
Numbers aren't everything. It's all about how you project to the next level, not what you've already done. McNutt doesn't project as well as many other receivers.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
It's funny how many times we have seen the best QB in all time over the years. Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Tim Tebow...the list goes on.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
who also Hung 88 yards and touch on teh real NU? prolly none
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
who also Hung 88 yards and touch on teh real NU? prolly none
tm3308
Well-Known Member
At least with those guys (with the exception of Tebow), the argument was based on their talent. And in Tebow's case, it was about the combo of elite college talent and intangibles. The argument wasn't based on their numbers.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
Oh, I get it. The question posed by this topic is entirely rhetorical. What DuffMan meant to title this thread is: "All the reasons I can think of why Marvin McNutt should be a first round pick." While I like the spirit of this farce, I can't help but feel set-up: you are not remotely interested in discussing the reasons why people think Marvin is a fourth-round pick - you just want to let every one know why you disagree with them.
It's no fun listening to someone scream at a wall, DuffMan. I'm glad you like Marvin so much. I do too. Next time let's approach that topic without misrepresenting what it is we're really going to discuss.
It's no fun listening to someone scream at a wall, DuffMan. I'm glad you like Marvin so much. I do too. Next time let's approach that topic without misrepresenting what it is we're really going to discuss.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
His point is a pretty valid one, and highlights his struggles against better defenses.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
It was more of a side comment...no question it wasn't strictly, or largely, just numbers-based.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
The NFL looks for a certain skillset for each position to project their value in the NFL. For example, a QB has to be able to make the "hash throw". Regardless of his stats in college, if he can't make that throw, he won't make it in the NFL because corners are too fast and too good.
As for Marvin, he had good production, but most of that production did not come against top flight corners. The NFL needs a 1st round receiver to be able to explode off the LOS, have the ability to get separation, have the ability to get YAC, and show elite top-end speed. In my opinion, Marvin only does 1 of these 4 exceptionally well (YAC). In the others, he's "average" when compared to his peers at the position who have a realistic shot of being drafted.
That's why he's projected to the 4th round.
As for Marvin, he had good production, but most of that production did not come against top flight corners. The NFL needs a 1st round receiver to be able to explode off the LOS, have the ability to get separation, have the ability to get YAC, and show elite top-end speed. In my opinion, Marvin only does 1 of these 4 exceptionally well (YAC). In the others, he's "average" when compared to his peers at the position who have a realistic shot of being drafted.
That's why he's projected to the 4th round.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
I'm not moving anything. Mcnutt numbers place him in the 90th percentile (at worst) of all player at his position. that is elite.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
of course they aren't everything, and they don't occur in a bubble. changs numbers occurred against inferior competition in a system known for producing inflated qbs numbers.
Mcnutt numbers occurred against solid competition in a system not known for producing good wr numbers. if anything Mcnutts numbers are MORE impressive taken in context.
hogeye
Well-Known Member
You said he was top five, yet you can't even demonstrate that based on your own logic of using stats. You keep changing how you look at it to justify it.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
He was an elite college WR. But that goes out the window when you try to get into the NFL, because almost everyone was in that 90th (at worst) percentile when they were in college.
And nearly all of McNutt's damage was done against inferior competition. He wasn't burning Nebraska or Penn State. He was burning Indiana and Tennessee Tech. Obviously, he's good. But he's nowhere near elite in terms of the NFL, or his draft class.
LG210
Well-Known Member
Bingo.
I know that to a lot of folks I probably came off as a jerk in this thread due to how I responded to Duff, but his MO is a little ridiculous. Raise a topic that you already have a set opinion about in the form of a question; if somebody answers the question in a manner inconsistent with such set opinion, an argument ensues; if somebody refutes an argument, add a qualification that wasn't in your initial argument, move the goal posts, change definitions of words, etc.
That is too bad, because when not on his MO, Duff can be a pretty entertaining poster on here. For example, his response to Steve Deace's mock draft may have been the single greatest response I have read on this entire website.
LG210
Well-Known Member
Why would McNutt's numbers against OK/average competition be impressive?
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
I think you are misunderestimating me. I said Marvin was an elite college WR, and that when his numbers are in the top five of wrs likely to be drafted.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
To which someone replied that he's not top 5 in terms of talent. To which YOU replied "Well how else do you evaluate talent if not based on stats and measurables?"
You're running in circles, Duff.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
This is fair, and it's probably very accurate in terms of NFL execs thought processes.
That said when you look at some of the guys "projected" ahead of McNutt there are still some real head scratchers.
Check out this link...
WalterFootball.com: 2012 NFL Draft: Wide Receiver Rankings
Listed above McNutt you have a couple of guys who ran 4.65+. You have a guy with a similar height and weight who had a fraction of his college production and has serious questions about his drive and potential weight issues (pictured above). You have another guy with a similar body and combine measurables that failed to really shine at senior bowl practices and played against worse competition than McNutt.
I just find it odd.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
I'm not running anywhere. I asked a question, "How do you evaluate talent outside of on field performance and combine measurables?". Is there another way?
