Why do we always F around with this shit?

SwirlinLingerie

Well-Known Member
Peyton McCollum will be joining the Iowa men's basketball team. Even if he isn't on scholarship, isn't Iowa limited to 15 roster spots overall?

I think Goetz may have wanted to have a hard conversation on this one. Explain the circumstances. And strongly suggest young McCollum could either join the program as a student manager, or go play somewhere else. And depending on he performed somewhere else, she'd be willing to have a conversation with Ben next spring about the possibility of him joining as a walk-on. But not in year 1.
 


Peyton McCollum will be joining the Iowa men's basketball team. Even if he isn't on scholarship, isn't Iowa limited to 15 roster spots overall?

I think Goetz may have wanted to have a hard conversation on this one. Explain the circumstances. And strongly suggest young McCollum could either join the program as a student manager, or go play somewhere else. And depending on he performed somewhere else, she'd be willing to have a conversation with Ben next spring about the possibility of him joining as a walk-on. But not in year 1.
Is coach Bluder/Jensen the only coaches at Iowa that didn't have a kid play for them?

Lickliter, McCaffrey, Ferentz and Brands (nephew). Hell even Joey Woody has a kid on the track team he coaches. Alford would have if he stayed long enough.

Unless he truly is one of the top 15 that Ben can get to Iowa, it's not a great way to start.
 


It's not all that unusual at this level of college BB. Izzo and Hoiberg are two that come to mind right away. Of course, Fran. Which I thought both of his kids on scholarship were worthy of it although I know some will disagree. I think it's all how the coach handles it. It doesn't sound as if McCollum's son is a top flight recruit. I think BM is professional enough to not force his kid into unwarranted playing time.
 




Is coach Bluder/Jensen the only coaches at Iowa that didn't have a kid play for them?

Lickliter, McCaffrey, Ferentz and Brands (nephew). Hell even Joey Woody has a kid on the track team he coaches. Alford would have if he stayed long enough.

Unless he truly is one of the top 15 that Ben can get to Iowa, it's not a great way to start.
Jan's niece (Kate Martin) played for us.
 


I agree that walk-on status is in the best interest of the program, but unlike Little Lick, this kid can play. He's not an elite player by any stretch, but from what I understand he's smart and has a good all-around game. His tape reminds me a bit of Jeff Horner.
 




Meh

I am in agreement with @haydensly, this shit happens all the time. BM knows how to construct a roster, and more importantly, it appears that he will not over pay for dudes…soooo, if he wants to add his kid as a walk-on… I’m good with it.
 


I'm going to call him lil Lick until he earn 20 min per game playing time.
You have to keep in mind that Ben's offense involved passing the ball around and getting the ball to an open shooter from the outside. His son does have one of the highest shooting percentages from three point land.

Four star recruits were what we were told Fran's boys were. In my opinion a three star rating for them would have been a more accurate rating. I remember when a three star was pretty damn good, but now four star rating are given out like candy. It doesn't seem to mean much anymore.

Look at what Ben did with his star pupil at the guard position. Was the kid even rated before he went to to play under Ben? Great coaching usually leads to great players who know how to maximize their best strengths. Olson was a great coach because he took what players he had and drew up an offense and defense that maximized the teams capabilities. He did it at Iowa and he did it at Arizona.

Let's not jump to judgement too quick. Let's see first if we might have a "New Lute" in Iowa City first. By the way that was Iowa's last final four................. 1980. Damn that's been almost 46 years ago and that's too dame long.

Unfortunately the little sisters to the west have had far more success in March madness and that's embarrassing for Iowa fans given the money and facilities advantage we should have. Several times they have gotten to sweet 16's. Just off of the top of my head I think our last one was around 1986-87. Mr. Davis's first year at Iowa with Raveling recruits. He got to an elite eight before falling to UNLV and their towel sucking coach.

If this blows up in our face I don't see more than three years for Ben.

It could be a godsend on the other hand and then fans will be wringing their hands waiting for Kansas or North Carolina to swoop in and steal him away. Damned if do and damned if your don't.
 
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Coach McCollum has had incredible success thus far in his coaching career. Three national titles followed by taking Drake to the second round of the Dance last season while Iowa fans watched from home.

He's committed and focused on continuing his success at Iowa. As a lifelong Hawkeye fan, he's fully aware of the history of Hawkeye father/son combos. Peyton McCollum was first team all-state as a senior. Coach McCollum isn't going to jeopardize his time at Iowa with a nepotism fiasco.

There's a lot of optimism out there about the new era. Patience please, Hawks fans. Let's not jump to conclusions months before Fall practice has even begun.

GO HAWKS!!
 


I'll give it to Ben. He's got balls. He knew making decisions like not bringing back Gatens would look a certain way. He certainly knows how this looks and he's doing it anyway. Just waited till the beginning of summer to announce it right before practice gets going.

It's human nature. If coaches can coach their kids they will. What irks me about the 'little Lick' type of players as much as anything is besides taking a roster spot from a more deserving player they are using university funds (public $) to pay for their schollys.

If I'm the toothless NCAA or conferences I'd have rules in place that state simply if a coach is to have a child of theirs on the team then they gotta be walk ons. Point blank they cannot be there on the schools dime. So then you find out just how bad do the coaches want to have em around. They can put their $ where their mouths are.
 


I'll give it to Ben. He's got balls. He knew making decisions like not bringing back Gatens would look a certain way. He certainly knows how this looks and he's doing it anyway. Just waited till the beginning of summer to announce it right before practice gets going.

It's human nature. If coaches can coach their kids they will. What irks me about the 'little Lick' type of players as much as anything is besides taking a roster spot from a more deserving player they are using university funds (public $) to pay for their schollys.

If I'm the toothless NCAA or conferences I'd have rules in place that state simply if a coach is to have a child of theirs on the team then they gotta be walk ons. Point blank they cannot be there on the schools dime. So then you find out just how bad do the coaches want to have em around. They can put their $ where their mouths are.
I thought Lil John was a walk-on, the McCaffery boys earned theirs.
 


This doesn't bother me in the least. Fathers have been coaching their sons at all levels since they were shooting in peach buckets. This happens at schools across the country. And, let's be clear, Iowa's recent history with this situation are distinctly mixed. Yes, the BF situation as OC was an unmitigated disaster, but KF two sons were plus starters for multiple years for Iowa football, and helped Iowa win a lot of games. Brian was also a good line coach. By most accounts, KF's son in law does well keeping the trains running on time.

As for the McCaffreys, any controversy there was mostly fan driven by cranks. Patrick may have underperformed his recruiting ranking and hype given his physical limitations, but he was plenty good enough to be on scholarship at Iowa and play. And, as for Connor, Garza does not win the Wooden award if Connor McCaffrey is not on Iowa roster. I will fight anyone who disagrees with that.

Ben deserves the benefit of the doubt that this is in the best interest of the team. He wants to coach his son. Me too.
 


I thought Lil John was a walk-on, the McCaffery boys earned theirs.
True. Nowadays there is no such thing as a walk on tho. Everyone is on scholly and that changes things. It just gets messy when coaches bring on kids. Frans kids were legit D1 players no doubt both of em. But they also had holes in there game that opened themselves up to fan criticism. And of course that went predictably too far.

Unless a player is as good as like a Doug McDermott or someone like that and it's a no brainer the nepo thing is just always gonna be there. From what I've read on Bens kid he didn't have any other D1 schools interested in him.. He's a below avg athletic 6'2 white kid.. Most likely he's only gonna play during blowouts at the end of games in garbage time. If he has to play any real mins like Lil Lick did that won't be pretty.

That said if Bens kid develops into any kind of a player then Ben just may be half of what he's cracked up to be as a coach. Time will tell
 


I love the Ben hire and I have a feeling his kid will likely end up being a useful player. That is based on nothing other than a gut feeling.

And I was fine with the McCafferys and Ferentz boys being on the team, especially since Steve was a walk-on.

That said, I don't love this one. When McCollum was hired, my buddies were joking around over text that Iowa should put some stipulation in the contract that none of his kids could play for the Hawks. We laughed about it, and then looked up the oldest kid. The recruiting report said he wasn't even generating much interest at the D2 level. Ok, we said, no way McCollum uses one of his precious roster spots for him.

Yet here we are. I get that he wants to coach his kid. But what do we always say? Big Ten sports are big business. That's why McCollum makes millions of dollars. His job is to put together a roster of the 15 best possible players to win games for Iowa. Giving his kid one of the spots ensures that some other kid - one without a Division I head coach for a dad - misses out on the opportunity. And it is very likely there are other guys out there (hard working kids who maybe even shot better than 40% from 3 in high school), who actually received strong interest from other Division I schools and would jump at the chance to play at Iowa.

Something else to consider. Despite all of McCollum's success, has he ever coached his kid? It's not something he has gone through as a coach before. How do other players react to that? What if he starts playing his kid in back-up PG minutes next year instead of Combs? How will Combs react? What will PG recruits think next year if they see Peyton being groomed in a back-up role already?

What if a few fans start booing his kid or are critical of him on social media? Will that change his relationship with Iowa fans? Will he or his wife perceive the Hawkeye "community" differently? You could certainly make the argument that one of the core reasons for McCaffery's downfall was that he wasn't able to generate enough money for the roster. And that a primary reason he wasn't able to generate enough money was that he no longer connected (perhaps didn't want to connect?) with fans. And part of that was likely some disdain from both Fran and Margaret as to how their two oldest boys were treated by fans.

Otherwise rational people don't always make rational decisions when it involves their family. Which is why companies have nepotism policies. And again, isn't this is a big business?

The timing of the announcement is also a bit unsettling. Dumped on a Friday afternoon right before practice is to start. If McCollum felt good about this move, why wasn't it made and announced earlier in the roster building process?

Finally, I'd push back a bit on this type of thing being common over the years. Yeah, there is certainly some proof of that. But I've heard other old time coaches, guys like Glen Mason, say that in the past coaches didn't really want their kids playing for them or coaching with them. There was a thought process that they should find their own way to a certain extent, and definitely a concern that it could be perceived as favoritism. With all the money involved now, it is even more tempting to bring them into the "family business." But should we want that?

I hope the kid does well. It'd be a great story. But wouldn't we all feel a little better if he want to Coe College this fall and scored 25 points a game, showed dazzling quickness and a great 3 point shot, and then McCollum brought him in as a walk-on next year?
 
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If you are
I love the Ben hire and I have a feeling his kid will likely end up being a useful player. That is based on nothing other than a gut feeling.

And I was fine with the McCafferys and Ferentz boys being on the team, especially since Steve was a walk-on.

That said, I don't love this one. When McCollum was hired, my buddies were joking around over text that Iowa should put some stipulation in the contract that none of his kids could play for the Hawks. We laughed about it, and then looked up the oldest kid. The recruiting report said he wasn't even generating much interest at the D2 level. Ok, we said, no way McCollum uses one of his precious roster spots for him.

Yet here we are. I get that he wants to coach his kid. But what do we always say? Big Ten sports are big business. That's why McCollum makes millions of dollars. His job is to put together a roster of the 15 best possible players to win games for Iowa. Giving his kid one of the spots ensures that some other kid - one without a Division I head coach for a dad - misses out on the opportunity. And it is very likely there are other guys out there (hard working kids who maybe even shot better than 40% from 3 in high school), who actually received strong interest from other Division I schools and would jump at the chance to play at Iowa.

Something else to consider. Despite all of McCollum's success, has he ever coached his kid? It's not something he has gone through as a coach before. How do other players react to that? What if he starts playing his kid in back-up PG minutes next year instead of Combs? How will Combs react? What will PG recruits think next year if they see Peyton being groomed in a back-up role already?

What if a few fans start booing his kid or are critical of him on social media? Will that change his relationship with Iowa fans? Will he or his wife perceive the Hawkeye "community" differently? You could certainly make the argument that one of the core reasons for McCaffery's downfall was that he wasn't able to generate enough money for the roster. And that a primary reason he wasn't able to generate enough money was that he no longer connected (perhaps didn't want to connect?) with fans. And part of that was likely some disdain from both Fran and Margaret as to how their two oldest boys were treated by fans.

Otherwise rational people don't always make rational decisions when it involves their family. Which is why companies have nepotism policies. And again, isn't this is a big business?

The timing of the announcement is also a bit unsettling. Dumped on a Friday afternoon right before practice is to start. If McCollum felt good about this move, why wasn't it made and announced earlier in the roster building process?

Finally, I'd push back a bit on this type of thing being common over the years. Yeah, there is certainly some proof of that. But I've heard other old time coaches, guys like Glen Mason, say that in the past coaches didn't really want their kids playing for them or coaching with them. There was a thought process that they should find their own way to a certain extent, and definitely a concern that it could be perceived as favoritism. With all the money involved now, it is even more tempting to bring them into the "family business." But should we want that?

I hope the kid does well. It'd be a great story. But wouldn't we all feel a little better if he want to Coe College this fall and scored 25 points a game, showed dazzling quickness and a great 3 point shot, and then McCollum brought him in as a walk-on next year?
If you own a restaurant and are hiring a chef to run the kitchen, you don't stand over his shoulder telling him what ingredients to use in his sauces. Micromanaging a new coach by putting in clauses into his contract about who he can or cannot recruit onto his team is not the way Beth handles her business. Especially, as this thread proves, how common this issue has been at Iowa for the last 15 years ("sorry Ben, we let Ferentz and McCaffrey do it, but your kid seems to suck so we are vetoing this"). Come on.

Ben has won at every level he has coached at. Like, won a lot. I don't think all of sudden he's gonna be the little league coach that puts his son at pitcher when he should be in right field.

My point is that this man earned this job at Iowa through hard work and a stellar resume. Until I see evidence that Ben does not recruit and play the best players that he can get, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what the F he is doing.
 


If you are

If you own a restaurant and are hiring a chef to run the kitchen, you don't stand over his shoulder telling him what ingredients to use in his sauces. Micromanaging a new coach by putting in clauses into his contract about who he can or cannot recruit onto his team is not the way Beth handles her business. Especially, as this thread proves, how common this issue has been at Iowa for the last 15 years ("sorry Ben, we let Ferentz and McCaffrey do it, but your kid seems to suck so we are vetoing this"). Come on.

Ben has won at every level he has coached at. Like, won a lot. I don't think all of sudden he's gonna be the little league coach that puts his son at pitcher when he should be in right field.

My point is that this man earned this job at Iowa through hard work and a stellar resume. Until I see evidence that Ben does not recruit and play the best players that he can get, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what the F he is doing.
So did Todd Lickliter... Granted his winning went on at Butler where I think 4 out of his 6 seasons there were pretty dang good before we hired him. Only time going by will allow for the separating of them in some ways. Everyone is hopeful Ben is the real deal and we got the right guy.

But when bringing in mostly Drake kids and your own son to have an undersized squad for your first team it opens himself up for the questions to be asked. None of us can pretend to be blindsided if say any of these things pop up as issues down the road. Hopefully it won't but who the hell knows. Does he get the benefit of the doubt? Sure absolutely. Can we notice what's going on and acknowledge that the beginnings of issues could be there too? I would think so.
 


So did Todd Lickliter... Granted his winning went on at Butler where I think 4 out of his 6 seasons there were pretty dang good before we hired him. Only time going by will allow for the separating of them in some ways. Everyone is hopeful Ben is the real deal and we got the right guy.

But when bringing in mostly Drake kids and your own son to have an undersized squad for your first team it opens himself up for the questions to be asked. None of us can pretend to be blindsided if say any of these things pop up as issues down the road. Hopefully it won't but who the hell knows. Does he get the benefit of the doubt? Sure absolutely. Can we notice what's going on and acknowledge that the beginnings of issues could be there too? I would think so.
On paper Licklighter was a good hire. I swear that guy moved to IC and had a stroke and no one was told about it. This gets to Fry's point that every coaching hire, whether it looks good going in or not, every coaching hire is a coin flip.

Scott Frost. Home run hire for Nebraska. Could not have worked out any worse.

Who is Kirk Ferentz? Just because we did not get Stoops does not mean we pick up a position coach from a bad NFL team. Bad hire. Um, seemed to have worked out ok.

Cignetti at Indiana. Homerun hire for Hoosiers. Mike Woodson? Not so much. Everyone had the opposite feel at the press conference.

Here's the thing though, there are tells. Frost and Licklighter were personally sketchy and not exactly known as coaches that would outwork you. Both of those guys are situationally good if things are in order.

Guys like KF and Cignitti are grinders. Perfectionists. Details matter. Every detail. They will themselves to a winning program. McCollum seems to have that grinder mentality. What's more? What I think makes this a sure fire great hire is that McCollum has won titles. What's our biggest gripe about Fran and KF? They don't talk about titles. They don't set that goal. They want to be very good, but not great. McCollum puts trophies in the cases. Conference titles, national titles, NCAA berths. Now, you can say that is all at a lower level, but the same rules and resources and limitations at that level apply to the other 100 coaches at the D2 level and McCollum came out on top more than once. That is what we are getting. A workhorse who wills himself to the top of a ladder with scissors.
 


So did Todd Lickliter... Granted his winning went on at Butler where I think 4 out of his 6 seasons there were pretty dang good before we hired him. Only time going by will allow for the separating of them in some ways. Everyone is hopeful Ben is the real deal and we got the right guy.

But when bringing in mostly Drake kids and your own son to have an undersized squad for your first team it opens himself up for the questions to be asked. None of us can pretend to be blindsided if say any of these things pop up as issues down the road. Hopefully it won't but who the hell knows. Does he get the benefit of the doubt? Sure absolutely. Can we notice what's going on and acknowledge that the beginnings of issues could be there too? I would think so.
And I disagree with the criticism of the roster. He brought in the core of a Drake team that won their conference title and NCAA birth. They already know his system and how to play together. For a coach taking over a program where every player but one left after the coach was fired, I can't think of a better way to build the foundation. Worked out for Cignetti at Indiana bringing a lot his guys with him this season. Beyond the Drake kids, Ben landed some good pieces, many of which had multiple options at the Power 5 level. This team will be top half of the conference.
 


And I disagree with the criticism of the roster. He brought in the core of a Drake team that won their conference title and NCAA birth. They already know his system and how to play together. For a coach taking over a program where every player but one left after the coach was fired, I can't think of a better way to build the foundation. Worked out for Cignetti at Indiana bringing a lot his guys with him this season. Beyond the Drake kids, Ben landed some good pieces, many of which had multiple options at the Power 5 level. This team will be top half of the conference.
We shall see.. If he does that it'd be a big time first yr. That'd also mean they'd be going dancing. Some are flat out expecting that right out of the gate and to me I think that could be a pretty big ask considering hes gonna have a Missouri Valley roster for most of the lineup. If Iowa had one 6'10 plus dude with experience to battle inside I'd feel a little better about their chances but they've struck out with landing anyone like that. I don't know if the true freshman will be ready to play a lot day 1 in there and even if he is is he that type of big guy? I'm not sure. Lot of questions on a team that's gonna be playing small ball quite a bit. But it'll be fun to watch.
 




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